IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

[VGThuy]

Get back to me when clean athletes from other countries are forbidden to perform under their own flag. How about when that much resources are thrown to "investigate" the other countries' dopers. I hardly think the prominent dopers such as Lence acted alone or with a small group, unbeknownst to all.

Find a whistleblower willing to give all evidence to start the investigation that other countries' governments were actively involved in doping on a big, systemic level. Gather all that evidence, analyze it, painstakingly go through it and if signs point in the direction that this happened, then start a campaign. That's the only reason why the investigation started in Russia in the first place. Then get caught and have about 1/3 of your country's athlete's medals stripped away and continue to not comply with orders from the drug testing agency and the IOC after you've been warned...and if something similar hasn't happened to that country that happened to Russia, then you can talk.

I mean you're free to think every country is doing it, but without any actual evidence or proof, then it just rings hallow. Who knows, maybe they'll be a law enforcement agency created along side WADA's already existing testers and maybe a more aggressive approach to investigate all countries thanks to Russia. But Russia was STILL caught and Putin and others are accepting the punishment because ultimately they know what they did was wrong.

What's making me sort of crazy about all of this is that ultimately, this was really the most lenient punishment or one of the most lenient punishments the IOC could have gave given what they were dealing with, and I get the feeling the Russian officials are actually pleased with this result and maybe were constructive in coming up with this punishment. Seriously.

 

[Coquelicot14]

It's Lance with an "a." No one cares what you hardly think. Provide evidence.

Oooh pardon me for misspelling the cheater's name. How will I survive?
And why should I privide any evidence, haven't you heard? Witchhunt is the name of the game, no one looks at evidence anymore. It's enough just to accuse, as we saw with Adelina and Bobrova.

 

[Aerobicidal]

This has been the most explosive thread on FSU in decades! If not millennia!
Russia doping scandal Putin coward flip-flop how dare general chaos never always!
Dope fiends reefer madness this is your brain on Meldonium urine test scratch'n'sniff hypocritical hysteria!
Humorlessnesslessness! Humorousness! Emphatic emphasis!
Innocent athletes will be regaled with heckles!
Non-Russian skaters will say lalala I'm glad the Russians are embarrassed to skate!
Classy Japanese jovially jubilate knowing their devotion to justice is not jejune, those Japanese jocose jammers!
Boycott boy scout Scott Hamilton buys scotch tape a boy's cot where skaters sit to be injected with BANNED substances!
USA is not AOK Amer-I-Can't deal with this ashamed of Ashley faking injury Wagner that wanker making up ankle stories but does she get punished no!
I will not be placated! This ban must be vacated! Or else the skates will be faked and mistakes will shake the Korean games to the core what's the score do I need to say more? You're not in doubt, Putin, your athletes' urine wasn't pure 'n' I'm sure you'll demur when the jurors are conferrin'!
Anyone who read this whole thread might drop dead when instead you should relax rest your head go to bed watch a TED talk and chalk all this up to anxiety lack of sobriety all up in this FSU society! Our community demanding immunity or impunity! An opportunity for unity wasted!
When the OAR team all wins let's just see how their victory is tasted!

 

[IceAlisa]

Oooh pardon me for misspelling the cheater's name. How will I survive?
And why should I privide any evidence, haven't you heard? Witchhunt is the name of the game, no one looks at evidence anymore. It's enough just to accuse, as we saw with Adelina and Bobrova.

Is it? Last time I checked Adelina is still an OGM. Everyone looks at evidence except for you. You look to continue being hysterical.

 

[Coquelicot14]

Is it? Last time I checked Adelina is still an OGM. Everyone looks at evidence except for you. You look to continue being hysterical.

You are the one hysterical , not to mention rude. I don't remember many retractions or appologies to wrongly accused athletes. Not nearly to the level of accusations that were thrown at them. How convenient.

 

[Polaris]

Anyway, it's all really that simple. I feel like there's a real comprehension issue going on or willful ignorance or poor attempts to paint new enemies without even trying to defend what Russia did here. Notice how none of the deflecting tactics actually address the Russia improperly interfering with the drug tests and drugging athletes situation. It's like if they don't talk about it or mention it, then we'll all just forget about it. It's all let me spout some ignorance about medical conditions even though I obviously did not go medical school for this or studied psychology and psychiatry to understand how mental illness and conditions work, TUES, USA, how Russia is a victim of a concerted Western attack, and poor athletes who still get to compete anyway without actually recognizing that the IOC could not ignore the evidence any longer. Not even Putin and others are denying it anymore. That's the real issue and stop with the BS and admit that you think what Russia did is OK which means you don't even care about fair play (but of course nobody wants to admit that) because you care more politicizing this even further and creating an "us v. them" narrative, are biased towards Russian athletes and think every little thing will hurt them, hate certain countries and their athletes, or all of the above.

Bravo.

 

[VGThuy]

Is it? Last time I checked Adelina is still an OGM. Everyone looks at evidence except for you. You look to continue being hysterical.

Don't you know? One really poorly handled incident with Bobrova (who with Soloviev I felt deserved a better remedy and a real apology for starters) by WADA (apparently WADA controls everything here even with reports by separate agencies that compiled the evidence and gave the conclusions that the IOC, another separate entity, reviewed and decided was strong) erases everything else. Everything.

 

[IceAlisa]

You are the one hysterical , not to mention rude. I don't remember many retractions or appologies to wrongly accused athletes. Not nearly to the level of accusations that were thrown at them. How convenient.

I am perfectly happy with the IOC decision. Good luck to the OARs.

Don't you know? One really poorly handled incident with Bobrova (who with Soloviev I felt deserved a better remedy and a real apology for starters) erases everything else. Everything.

I am sure there were other poorly-handled incidents that are highly relevant here.

 

[VGThuy]

I am perfectly happy with the IOC decision. Good luck to the OARs.
I am sure there were other poorly-handled incidents that are highly relevant here.

I'm sure there were, and they need to be addressed. However, it's poor logic to simply deny or ignore or dismiss every finding and all of the evidence based on that. Bobrova, and now Sotnikova even though she was cleared and has her OGM, is the most cited example that some like to use like it's a magic wand that would make all of this illegitimate.

 

[Coquelicot14]

I'm sure there were, and they need to be addressed. However, it's poor logic to simply deny or ignore or dismiss every finding and all of the evidence based on that. Bobrova, and now Sotnikova even though she was cleared and has her OGM, is the most cited example that some like to use like it's a magic wand that would make all of this illegitimate.

What makes this disgusting is when more people are cleared, and they will be, no one will care once again. Baseless acussations are much more of a fun "sport". Surely.

 

[caseyedwards]

Get back to me when clean athletes from other countries are forbidden to perform under their own flag. How about when that much resources are thrown to "investigate" the other countries' dopers. I hardly think the prominent dopers such as Lence acted alone or with a small group, unbeknownst to all.

Russia wasn’t really ordered to do anything outrageous to prevent being banned. you can argue ordering them to loosen secure perimeters around certain cities for wada is overreaching but is sports important or not?

 

[VGThuy]

What makes this disgusting is when more people are cleared, and they will be, no one will care once again. Acussations are much more of a fun "sport". Surely.

I'm sympathetic to that and I think people should not be named until thorough investigations have been done, and reviewed, and the initial decisions reviewed, and provide an opportunity for the accused to defend himself/herself and review the evidence. But I don't like that this is used as a distraction or deflection for this issue being discussed in this thread which is the Russian ban and the systemic, state sponsored doping, at all.

 

[missing]

What I'm curious about is whether Olympians deprived in Sochi (and elsewhere) of their rightful podium spots are going to sue the Russian sports federation (or whoever was in charge of the systematic doping) for pain and suffering and loss of potential revenue. I know if I were an athlete in that circumstance I'd certainly be investigating my options. I'd also be checking to see if there was any sort of provable collusion between the IOC and the cheating machine, and if I had to sign away my rights of protest in order to get a recreated moment in 2018, I'd say thanks but no thanks and keep my legal options open.

 

[IceAlisa]

I was just thinking that. Hypotheticals about future clearances are fine and good but we do have actual real victims of Russian malfeasance in Sochi.

 

[Vagabond]

What I'm curious about is whether Olympians deprived in Sochi (and elsewhere) of their rightful podium spots are going to sue the Russian sports federation (or whoever was in charge of the systematic doping) for pain and suffering and loss of potential revenue.

Such suits would probably be barred by sovereign immunity.

 

[IceAlisa]

Such suits would probably be barred by sovereign immunity.

FWIW, a member of the Duma, Valeriy Rushkin, has filed a lawsuit against Mutko for reasons of national humiliation. He wants Mutko to resign and apologize to the country.

 

[missing]

Such suits would probably be barred by sovereign immunity.

I didn't see Russia on that list, which probably means nothing.

But I still think there are end arounds. If you can't sue the state, sue the laboratory. Sue the doctors running the laboratory. Sue the manufacturers of tamperproof bottles that were clearly tampered with. There's got to be someone, maybe even an athlete who knowingly cheated.

And given that the Russian sports federation (or whoever) is paying a $15 million fine, that suggests acknowledgement of culpability.

At minimum, I'd be investigating if I have a leg to stand on.

 

[skatingguy]

Get back to me when clean athletes from other countries are forbidden to perform under their own flag. How about when that much resources are thrown to "investigate" the other countries' dopers. I hardly think the prominent dopers such as Lence acted alone or with a small group, unbeknownst to all.

Here is the story of Fehaid Aldeehani. He is the 2016 Olympic Champion in Men's Double Trap. He competed as an independent athlete in Rio because the Kuwaiti Olympic Committee was suspended.
http://news.kuwaittimes.net/website...d-first-ever-gold-medal-won-kuwaiti-olympics/

Lance Armstrong was not state sponsored. As has been widely reported, it was sport sponsored. The doping in men's road racing was wide spread and infected almost every country that competed. It was not unique to the United States, it's just that Armstrong is the most widely known athlete of that era. The sport had the issue and the sport was nearly destroyed in the process of cleaning it up. Very strict measures had be introduced, new tests were devised based, and cycling is better for the effort.

 

[Willin]

@Coquelicot14 Oh, I'm sure Lance didn't act alone. I'm sure there is a large global community of cyclists and cycling coaches working together to create the best doping plan possible for cyclists of all skill levels around the world.

(In all seriousness, though, I can't recommend you watch Icarus enough - that movie made it pretty clear that doping is such a part of the culture in cycling that even amateur cyclists racing for little to no money dope. They just don't get tested like the Pros and Olympians do)

 

[MacMadame]

Oh so sorry, I suppose he didn't outright call them dopers, but he came damn close enough.

Except there is nothing in that section you posted that says that. Or even "damn close enough."

 

[allezfred]

As does Japan.

No Japanese athlete has ever returned a positive dope test result so they either have the most sophisticated doping system ever or they are clean.

I’ve heard this about Olympic audiences as well, but the audience in SLC 2002 sounded knowledgeable, at least.

They thought Sale/Pelletier should have won the pairs event, so umm no.

Olympic audiences are full of nationalistic idiots who couldn’t care less about skating.

 

[RoseRed]

No Japanese athlete has ever returned a positive dope test result so they either have the most sophisticated doping system ever or they are clean.



They thought Sale/Pelletier should have won the pairs event, so umm no.

Olympic audiences are full of nationalistic idiots who couldn’t care less about skating.

Such idiots that ~half the judges agreed with them?

 

[allezfred]

Such idiots that ~half the judges agreed with them?

Yes.

 

[MsZem]

Such idiots that ~half the judges agreed with them?

Two judges had S/P first in the short program, which makes me question both their judgment and their eyesight.

However, given that the only relation S/P and B/S have to this thread was that Berezhnaya had a brief doping suspension for taking cold medication, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Japanfan]

They thought Sale/Pelletier should have won the pairs event, so umm no.

It was a mostly North American audience. What would you expect?

And S/P did win, as you know - along with B/S.

 

[allezfred]

And S/P did win, as you know - along with B/S

I’m not going to get into another debate about this, but it was a bullshit solution to appease a baying media. And my opinion on that will never change.

 

[Amantide]

10. PRIVATIZE SPORTS! Why is there government involvement in everything? Why is deputy pm head of soccer? Stop all the interference!

Government is involved in Italy as well, when it comes to some "minor" sports, figure skating included or fencing for examples. They support with infrastructure and other financial means. Privatization isn't the answer to everything.

 

[caseyedwards]

Government is involved in Italy as well, when it comes to some "minor" sports, figure skating included or fencing for examples. They support with infrastructure and other financial means. Privatization isn't the answer to everything.

It’s too extreme in Russia. Maybe best to totally abolish legality of government minister being the president of soccer too at least.

 

[bardtoob]

Vladimir Putin will permit Russians to compete in Olympics

 

[caseyedwards]

Vladimir Putin will permit Russians to compete in Olympics

They are all getting ahead of themselves! What if only a handful are even invited by the special IOC panel? What if only 10 athletes are invited?