U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[Coco]

I think 7 jumping passes in 4:10 is different than landing jumps in practice.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I don't think Ashley was faking anything and I don't think there is anything sinister going on but in defense of all the posters who were harsh on her after yesterdays SP just remember that her SP yesterday was not far off from what she did at Skate Canada. It was yesterdays performance PLUS the other performances of the last season and half that made people come to those conclusions. Her unfortunate situation tonight doesn't erase the last season and half when she was fine

I hope she gets better of course. It's horrible to have to deal with this so close to nationals in an Olympic season

 

[her grace]

Body of Work Update

Tier 1
- 2018 U.S. Figure Skating Championships: TBD
- 2017 ISU Grand Prix Final: N/A
- 2017 ISU World Figure Skating Championships: Chen 4th, Wagner 7th, ETA Bell 12th

Tier 2
- 2017 Grand Prix Series Competitions: RC: Bell 6th, Nagasu 7th; SC: Wagner 3rd, Hicks 4th, Chen 7th; COC: Glenn 10th; NHK: Nagasu 4th, Bell 9th; IDF: Edmunds 10th; SA: Tennell 3rd, Chen 8th, Wagner DNF
- 2017 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships: Nagasu 3rd, Bell 6th, Chen 12th

Tier 3
- 2017 Challenger Series Events and other senior international competitions: [only listing top 5 finishes] USIC: Nagasu 2nd, Chen 3rd, Bell 5th; Lombardia: Tennell 4th; Autumn Classic: Hicks 4th; Finlandia: Wang 4th; Warsaw Cup: Hicks 3rd; Tallinn Trophy: Zhang 4th, Wang 5th
- 2017 U.S. Figure Skating Championships: Chen 1st, Wagner 2nd, Bell 3rd, Nagasu 4th, Zhang 5th, etc.
- 2017 World Junior Figure Skating Championships: Tennell 7th, Andrews 12th
- 2017 ISU Junior Grand Prix Final: N/A

 

[Carolla5501]

ankle, or ego?

I hope it isn't too bad. But how would a compassion sock help an infected ankle? Really, nothing is going to help as much or as quickly as resting and letting the prescribed treatments heal. Ashley should have WD from Skate America if she was in this much pain the last 1-2 weeks.



I really don't think (and I hope) that Ashley didn't just quit because the program wasn't going the way she needed it to.

Since when did Ashley quit because programs are going bad? I knew this was going to come up But we've seen her skate through some horrible skates and just keep going. She's not a quitter and it's insulting for you want to act like that's why she withdrew.

 

[arakwafan2006]

Yeah, it’s funny how Johnny and Tara, ESPECIALLY sister Weir sat their asses up there insinuating that Ashley was being more theatrical than injured. You would think that the girl with the bionic hip and the guy who couldn’t complete a free skate because he caught his blade on the board would STFU and roll with her being injured. Also, Ashley doesn’t have to broken down to pieces for her to determine completing the program isn’t worth it. Nationals and olympics is the goal. Not Skate America or the Grand Prix Final.

 

[RD]

Even looking at this through my critical lens I don't think she just quit because program was subpar or she didn't want to lose to Tennell or whatever. I think it was a mix of her genuinely hurting and not wanting to worsen an already bad(!) injury so close to a critical point in the season. Perhaps with hindsight being 20/20 she could have WD after the SP (or maybe even from the entire event altogether). She may also have risked further disaster by continuing (such as a hard fall, etc.).

 

[Willin]

Actually we are seeing these type of infections and reasonably healthy kids now. Basically the bugs are getting stronger! There is some theory that it's overuse of antibiotics this led to a stronger bugs

Really? Osteomyelitis and joint capsule/soft tissue infections? (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) I know stronger UTIs/Pneumonia/Sepsis/TB are a problem..

The reason it's not seen in otherwise healthy individuals is route of infection. In diabetes or PVD, there are more wounds and more severe wounds/ulcers on the foot leading to more opportunities for infection (not to mention immunosuppression with diabetes. Ashley, as far as I know, does not have diabetes or peripheral vascular disease, and is not at risk for severe enough ankle wounds for a deep infection (maybe an infected cut, but nothing down into the ankle joint). In trauma the route is related to, there are again deep wounds or more commonly a compound fracture (where the bone sticks through the skin). Sepsis can lead to this, but if Ashley had sepsis or trauma that severe there's no way would she would try to compete. IV Drug use is the other common route for infections like this, but that makes no sense in Ashley's case.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Yeah, it’s funny how Johnny and Tara, ESPECIALLY sister Weir sat their asses up there insinuating that Ashley was being more theatrical than injured. You would think that the girl with the bionic hip and the guy who couldn’t complete a free skate because he caught his blade on the board would STFU and roll with her being injured. Also, Ashley doesn’t have to be in pieces for her to determine completing the program isn’t worth it. Nationals and olympics is the goal. Not Skate America or the Grand Prix Final.

Kinda agree. Even if she won here tonight, she woulda WD from Final probably immediately.

I didn't like at the end how Johnny said "she should have WD before leaving CA or before the competition started."

The only thing is is where Flatt went to Worlds and skated injured and didn't tell anyone, people threw a hissy... Although Worlds is a different Beast than SA. And who knows if USA Fed coulda replied Wags with that short of notice. Anywhooooooo...

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

So who do all y'all think will compose the USA ladies Oly team? Strange year....

I stick to my guns with my same prediction I have had since end of October.

1. Bradie
2. Mirai
3. Ashley

Alternate: Michelle Kwan

 

[Wyliefan]

At this point . . . no idea. I really really hope Ashley can get better and make it, but I honestly don't feel comfortable predicting anyone.

 

[barbarafan]

I know people like to rag on Ashley, but questioning her motive for everything is a bit much. There's tons of other skaters who make strategic or calculating decisions based on points/facts and we don't drag them all over the floor too. I think we *want* our skaters to be smart and informed, but not actually be too obvious about it; like lull us all into this fantasy that "we're just here to compete" and "we want to do our best".

Ashley knows the deal...she wants to build her resume for team selection in case she needs it...so of course she was going to try and skate even if there was a big chance it would hurt/get worse. Once she saw how stuff stacked out and her foot wasn't cooperating to make a decent run at a GPF spot, there was no reason to keep going and make it worse. Analytically, it makes a TON of sense.

Personally, I think that I (and I'm guessing most of everyone here) value the sportsmanship and competitive aspect of these competitions, so athletes withdrawing during a program for anything less than a catastrophic happening-at-the-moment injury kind of ruins a bit of the atmosphere. I'm thinking that one V/M program stop years ago that people were really fussed about.

So I don't personally like it when people use WDs and program stops/restarts in a strategic way. BUT it's allowed, and I don't think Ashley was faking her pain. Obviously I don't think she intended to stop, but she was probably weighing her options in her head the whole time and made a decision.

ITA - she prob. was told to stay off the foot, take her antibiotics and keep foot elevated but she had a chance to make the final so was going for it. The compression sock would have helped to keep the swelling down and maybe help the pain. She prob. was already in a lot of pain when she took the ice which of course shot 0 to 60 when she started her program and at this point even a season's best would not have furthered her cause which she obviously was not going to be able to get. The danger of continuing in that much pain was definitely NOT worth the risk of more serious injury. I managed to get a pinched nerve once and moved to evade something which made me collapse in a pool of pain on my ankle which broke. Bad move.

 

[RD]

So who do all y'all think will compose the USA ladies Oly team? Strange year....

I stick to my guns with my same prediction I have had since end of October.

1. Bradie
2. Mirai
3. Ashley

No clue...honestly I won't even bother at this point. I had Wagner, Chen and Nagasu as front-runners mid-season (which are different from actual picks, I stress)...let's pick 'em apart now. Wagner, injury question mark now. Chen, no confidence in her at this point but still can't rule out things coming together for her in time for nationals. Nagasu, inconsistent and questionable recent history at nationals. Now we've got Tennell here who pops in and outscores all three of them on first attempt. Where does she fit in this puzzle? Remember, one competition does not make a skater. Unproven and untested but clearly jumps are there.

No clear leader right now. A mess at best TBH.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^^^ LOL, Strange year, eh? Wonder what Gracie did this week..

I do feel Bradie sneaks in and we have another change of the guard at USA Womens Championships.

Karen is wayyyyy solid no from me. Remember when she won the bronze at Nats outta nowhere? Then the next year she lost ground. (Nerves from being a USA medalist?) Then a couple seasons later she becomes Nat Champion and we are full circle again....

 

[RD]

^^^^ LOL, Strange year, eh? Wonder what Gracie did this week..

Posted on Instagram for the first time in months.

 

[ZilphaK]

Just adding that even if Ashley's pain wasn't a 10 on the frowny-face chart, seeing two horrible falls in the men's programs had to be a freak out for all the skaters there. I'm sure any pains and fears were amplified for everyone, making the clean skates all that more tenacious, and just maybe, the pulling out/not soldiering through ankle pain even more understandable.

 

[Carolla5501]

I've been reading the trashing of Ashley on Facebook. They seem to think that Ashley's withdrawal is somehow related to Nagasu not making this year's Olympic team.

The big problem I have with this is so far Nagasu hasn't exactly been a reliable consistent skater who is placing well. The real truth is the only woman with both a clean short and long and a major event is Bradie. The Nagasu lovers need to worry about how their skater skates before worrying about how she's going to be robbed. If she doesn't make the podium the arguments pretty much over. (and she is one I really would like to make the team)

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Perhaps a new poll on what programs Karen will go to for Golden Spin? Because her results were no better with these programs. (duh). LOL

@Carolla5501 people are already saying Mirai didn't make 2018 Olympics???...???...

 

[Vagabond]

ISU Season's Best Scores for U.S. Ladies, plus Starr Andrews' result from Pacific Coast Sectionals:

204.10 Bradie Tennell, Skate America
194.46 Mirai Nagasu, NHK Trophy
188.86 Mariah Bell, Rostelecom Cup
188.50 Starr Andrews, Pacific Coast Sectionals
183.94 Ashley Wagner, Skate Canada
183.85 Angela Wang, Finlandia Trophy
182.80 Karen Chen, Skate America
182.57 Courtney Hicks, Skate Canada

At the top of their game, Wagner and Chen are capable of much better scores, but I think Tennell, Nagasu, Bell, and Andrews can raise their scores too. An Olympic Team of Tennell, Nagasu, and Andrews would be mind-blowing in oh, so many ways.

 

[FSfan107]

Not sure if this was posted already but I came across this pre-Skate America interview with Bradie: http://figureskatersonline.com/news...s-ahead-to-grand-prix-debut-at-skate-america/

I like what she said about listening to your body, especially in light of Wagner's issue today. She also seems to really embrace the Cinderella program and that's fine with me.

I liked her calm and cool demeanor in the post-competition interview with Andrea Joyce. She seems to have a good head on her shoulders: https://twitter.com/NBCOlympics/status/934932437846626304

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^^^^^ Interesting @Vagabond

For me Bell has left no impressions on me. I almost forgot she was in the GP..... sigh

 

[DimaToe]

I think the Olympic team will consist of some sort of combination of Wagner, Nagasu, Tennell, Hicks and Hong. Karen Chen is still the most IJS friendly but it seems like she is overthinking her Olympic season way too much and i’m not confident that she will skate lights out at nationals. Frank’s ability to get his top lady skater to peak at nationals for the Olympic season also can’t be denied, so thats why I include Hong, I include Tennell and Hicks based on TES potential and obviously an inconsistent Nagasu has been One of the top Americans this Olympic quad, so that’s why I include her too.

 

[Carolla5501]

Perhaps a new poll on what programs Karen will go to for Golden Spin? Because her results were no better with these programs. (duh). LOL

@Carolla5501 people are already saying Mirai didn't make 2018 Olympics???...???...

They are saying that this is just part of the plan to rob her of her spot on the 2018 team. Apparently it's a great conspiracy theory. One that I don't really understand. LOL.

 

[RoseRed]

Ashley has an overall better body of work now than she did in 2014 so she didn't need to make the GPF to prove anything to anyone IMO. I hope she goes home, gets her ankle healed, and gets herself ready to be awesome at US Nats. She didn't need to painfully push herself through a GP event when the bigger goal is US Nats (which is basically what she said in her interview). I respect the fact that she tried but I'm glad she stopped when it was getting too painful for her. I hope she gets healed soon because I want to see her in fighting form in San Jose.

Does she though? At least officially, her World silver doesn't count towards the criteria. Only 2017 Worlds, 2017 Nationals and results from this season count. I don't know what the specific criteria were in 2014, but she medalled at both her GPs and the GPF, and was two-time and defending National champ and had been 5th at the most recent Worlds. I think she'll make the team, but I don' think she has a stronger body of work now than she did in 2014.

No clue...honestly I won't even bother at this point. I had Wagner, Chen and Nagasu as front-runners mid-season (which are different from actual picks, I stress)...let's pick 'em apart now. Wagner, injury question mark now. Chen, no confidence in her at this point but still can't rule out things coming together for her in time for nationals. Nagasu, inconsistent and questionable recent history at nationals. Now we've got Tennell here who pops in and outscores all three of them on first attempt. Where does she fit in this puzzle? Remember, one competition does not make a skater. Unproven and untested but clearly jumps are there.

No clear leader right now. A mess at best TBH.

It's not one competition though. She was strong at both summer comps and did very well at Lombardia. So far, she's shown good consistency.

 

[barbarafan]

Kinda agree. Even if she won here tonight, she woulda WD from Final probably immediately.

I didn't like at the end how Johnny said "she should have WD before leaving CA or before the competition started."

The only thing is is where Flatt went to Worlds and skated injured and didn't tell anyone, people threw a hissy... Although Worlds is a different Beast than SA. And who knows if USA Fed coulda replied Wags with that short of notice. Anywhooooooo...

It is very possible that the traveling to the competition worsened the swelling and the infection.Then after torturing it in the short skate and maybe not being able to sleep due to pain she was in a real mess today. Wish her the best & hope a doctor at the competition has looked at it to make sure she can travel home or if she needs to visit hospital first. This is not something to jerk around with.

 

[Frida80]

I've been reading the trashing of Ashley on Facebook. They seem to think that Ashley's withdrawal is somehow related to Nagasu not making this year's Olympic team.

The big problem I have with this is so far Nagasu hasn't exactly been a reliable consistent skater who is placing well. The real truth is the only woman with both a clean short and long and a major event is Bradie. The Nagasu lovers need to worry about how their skater skates before worrying about how she's going to be robbed. If she doesn't make the podium the arguments pretty much over. (and she is one I really would like to make the team)

This is bizarre since the team isn’t close to being named.

But I will say, putting Ashley is risky. She just hasn’t skated enough this season to know where she would place internationally. That World Silver medal was two seasons ago. Since then, she has been lack luster. I keep waiting to see that Ashley from two years ago. But I don’t think she’s done anything to deserve a spot on the team yet.

It’s really awful that she’s injured now. It means she will have even more time off ice and her new technique won’t have time to settle. I have no idea what type of skater we’ll see at nationals.

 

[Carolla5501]

Oh I feel certain that if Nagasu falls 10 times some fans will be convinced it was a plot to make sure she didn't make the team.


I do feel for Ashley and I hope she's able to pull it together and have a good skate at nationals no matter what. I'd hate for her to go out this way. It's pretty evident this is probably the last year and she's been a good competitor

 

[MRani]

Osteomyelitis and joint infections are extremely serious things guys. Like, be in the hospital, weeks of IV antibiotics, could lose your limb if not treated properly serious. And obviously painful as hell too. If it’s one of those then it’s completely understandable why she had to withdraw. I’m honestly impressed she made it as far as she did.

I wonder though, is it confirmed that the infection is in the bone or joint and not the soft tissue? I honestly can’t imagine any doctor allowing her to skate with a bone/joint infection. I find even the thought kind of terrifying. Considering the fact that she’s not currently in the hospital getting IV antibiotics, I’m hoping it’s more likely it’s a really bad cellulitis of the foot/ankle.

 

[bardtoob]

ISU Ladies Personal Best Scores:

- Total Competition Score (USA): http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/pbslto.htm


12 Ashley WAGNER USA ISU World Championships 2016 02.04.2016 215.39 S
15 Gracie GOLD USA ISU World Championships 2016 02.04.2016 211.29 S
21 Bradie TENNELL USA ISU GP Skate America 2017 24.11.2017 204.10 S
27 Karen CHEN USA ISU World Championships 2017 31.03.2017 199.29 S
32 Sasha COHEN USA MasterCard Skate Canada Int. 2003 01.11.2003 197.60 S
37 Mirai NAGASU USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2017 18.02.2017 194.95 S
43 Mariah BELL USA ISU GP 2016 Progressive Skate America 22.10.2016 191.59 S
47 Kimmie MEISSNER USA World Championships 2006 25.03.2006 189.87 S
52 Polina EDMUNDS USA ISU World Championships 2014 29.03.2014 187.50 S
60 Angela WANG USA ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2017 08.10.2017 183.85 S
61 Amber GLENN USA ISU CS Golden Spin 2016 07.12.2016 183.60 S
62 Courtney HICKS USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2015 28.11.2015 183.12 S
64 Rachael FLATT USA XXI Olympic Winter Games 2010 25.02.2010 182.49 S
65 Alissa CZISNY USA World Championships 2011 30.04.2011 182.25 S

- Short Program (USA): http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/pbslsp.htm

6 Gracie GOLD USA ISU World Championships 2016 31.03.2016 76.43 S
13 Mirai NAGASU USA ISU CS Autumn Classic International 2016 30.09.2016 73.40 S
14 Ashley WAGNER USA ISU World Championships 2016 31.03.2016 73.16 S
21 Sasha COHEN USA MasterCard Skate Canada Int. 2003 31.10.2003 71.12 S
25 Karen CHEN USA ISU World Championships 2017 29.03.2017 69.98 S
34 Amber GLENN USA ISU CS Golden Spin 2016 07.12.2016 67.93 S
36 Bradie TENNELL USA ISU GP Skate America 2017 24.11.2017 67.01 S
48 Courtney HICKS USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2015 27.11.2015 65.60 S
51 Polina EDMUNDS USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2015 20.11.2015 65.29 S
55 Kimmie MEISSNER USA World Championships 2007 23.03.2007 64.67 S
56 Rachael FLATT USA XXI Olympic Winter Games 2010 23.02.2010 64.64 S
61 Alissa CZISNY USA ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2011 22.10.2011 64.20 S
63 Mariah BELL USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017 20.10.2017 63.85 S

- Long Program (USA): http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/pbslfs.htm

13 Ashley WAGNER USA ISU World Championships 2016 02.04.2016 142.23 S
21 Gracie GOLD USA ISU GP 2015 Progressive Skate America 24.10.2015 137.41 S
22 Bradie TENNELL USA ISU GP Skate America 2017 24.11.2017 137.09 S
29 Mirai NAGASU USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2017 18.02.2017 132.04 S
32 Sasha COHEN USA Smart Ones Skate America 2003 25.10.2003 130.89 S
33 Mariah BELL USA ISU GP 2016 Progressive Skate America 22.10.2016 130.67 S
38 Kimmie MEISSNER USA World Championships 2006 25.03.2006 129.70 S
40 Karen CHEN USA ISU World Championships 2017 31.03.2017 129.31 S
47 Polina EDMUNDS USA ISU World Championships 2014 29.03.2014 126.91 S
55 Alissa CZISNY USA ISU GP Trophee E. Bompard 2011 19.11.2011 121.90 S
59 Angela WANG USA ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2017 08.10.2017 121.31 S
62 Jennifer KIRK USA Smart Ones Skate America 2003 25.10.2003 120.09 S
66 Courtney HICKS USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2016 05.11.2016 119.30 S
67 Hannah MILLER USA CS Lombardia Trophy 2014 21.09.2014 118.83 S
69 Rachael FLATT USA Four Continents Championships 2011 20.02.2011 118.08 S

 

[Willin]

Like I've said before, Ashley's greatest asset is her consistency, and USFSA knows that. That's why they want her on the team. Sure, she didn't skate her best here, but the reason for low scores here an at SC were URs, not anything disastrous like a fall or popping several jumps in a program. And the fact that she could skate a SP where the only problem was URs and made it through two jumping passes and two spins in a FP with an ankle in such bad condition only solidifies that. If she can skate that well when in excruciating pain, I think USFSA can trust her not to have a meltdown at the Olympics, and that's why I think she's a lock.

As for Mirai's fans... Man, that's a chip on their shoulder. I think she has a great shot at making it this year. I don't know why they're so upset about Ashley - don't they realize there's two other spots? I'm sure plenty of Mirai fans (like me) know she has a good shot at the team and aren't worrying about Ashley "stealing" her spot. The loud ones are the ones saying that are, unfortunately, the ones most likely to comment on a FB post.

@MRani I don't think it's Osteomyelitis, since she'd certainly be in the hospital still. She did word it as an ankle infection, so I'm thinking cellulitis or a more mild infection of the joint capsule. Either way, I don't think she should be competing on it.

 

[bardtoob]

I hate to say it, but Ashley Wagner's personal best scores are really aging. It looks like she peaked at 2016 Worlds.

As of now, my guess is that the Olympic Team will be:

Bradie Tennell - Skate America 2017 - 204.10
Mirai Nagasu - Four Continents 2017 -199.29
Karen Chen - World Championships 2017 - 194.95

because their personal best total scores have been within less than the last 12 months.

However, I do think there is still something to say for Ashley's consistency in comparison to Karen.

It is important to note:

Ashley Wagner - Skate Canada International 2017 - 183.94
Ashley Wagner - World Championships 2017 - 193.54
Ashley Wagner - Cup of China 2016 - 181.38
Ashley Wagner - Skate America 2016 - 196.44