U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Homegirl needs to quit worrying about what programs she is skating to, and spend more time on jumps. Thats the issue this season.

Waste of energy if you ask me.

 

[Willin]

@AngieNikodinovLove I can't like this enough. Seriously, how does she think changing her programs will help her when she was also inconsistent with those programs?

I get Ashley going back because those programs were from her best season, Hanyu going back to Seimei made sense because it was so well received (and consistency isn't an issue), Adam going back made sense because those programs got him great scores, and Osmond's SP helped her get on the World's podium. But Karen? Those programs won her a national title and 4th at Worlds, but they also got her 12th at 4CC, 7th at a Challenger Series, and 6th/7th on the Grand Prix - hardly personal bests.

 

[olympic]

Oy. My head! If true, this smacks of desperation. Agreed @AngieNikodinovLove - She really needs to learn to rotate and land jumps first. She has charisma, so high level performances will boost her PCS. She should be more concerned w/ stumbling on a 2A and not her music at this time.

 

[RD]

Although Chen's seemingly constant flipping of programs early on does not boost my confidence in her, if going back ultimately helps with her consistency, then so be it.

 

[mag]

This should make Golden Spin more interesting!

 

[alchemy void]

Come on Tammy, what the hell is going on?! (I still love you though!)

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

@AngieNikodinovLove I can't like this enough. Seriously, how does she think changing her programs will help her when she was also inconsistent with those programs?

I get Ashley going back because those programs were from her best season, Hanyu going back to Seimei made sense because it was so well received (and consistency isn't an issue), Adam going back made sense because those programs got him great scores, and Osmond's SP helped her get on the World's podium. But Karen? Those programs won her a national title and 4th at Worlds, but they also got her 12th at 4CC, 7th at a Challenger Series, and 6th/7th on the Grand Prix - hardly personal bests.

LOL..I mean right?

She could skate to the theme song to "The Price Is Right" at this stage in the game if she just lands and rotates those jumps....

I don't like the message she is sending with this Musical Chairs.....

 

[AxelAnnie]

Karen Chen has dumped BOTH her programs. Going back to last year's SP and LP.

That SP was totally epic! She needs to land those jumps though.

 

[Carolla5501]

Homegirl needs to quit worrying about what programs she is skating to, and spend more time on jumps. Thats the issue this season.

Waste of energy if you ask me.

I don't claim to be an expert on programs but this does seem bizarre. Even if you go back to something don't you have to work on it again? She seems to spending a ton of time on program development this year which doesn't give her much time for making it look finished and put together.

I wish her luck

 

[coppertop1]

How many times has she changed programs? She won’t convince anyone at this rate

 

[NAOTMAA]

How many times has she changed programs? She won’t convince anyone at this rate

She seems to have a hard time convincing herself at this moment let alone anybody else

From the top of my head it looks like she dumped two LPs and a SP. Is there a record for number of times a skater changed their programs in a season? Her team appears to think her programs are her biggest problem and the cause of her current troubles.

I wonder if she is privately having a hard time handling the new pressure and spotlight that's been thrusted onto her. If it is that then it doesn't bode well for her at nationals. Perhaps it would have been wise to hold off on that children's book until after the Olympic season when they could have promoted it as "Karen Chen, a national champion and Olympian" rather then "Karen Chen, a national champion and 4th at one world championships"

We just have to wait and see at Skate America if this all pays off.

 

[mag]

I wonder if she is privately having a hard time handling the new pressure and spotlight that's been thrusted onto her. If it is that then it doesn't bode well for her at nationals. Perhaps it would have been wise to hold off on that children's book until after the Olympic season when they could have promoted it as "Karen Chen, a national champion and Olympian" rather then "Karen Chen, a national champion and 4th at one world championships"

I was wondering the same thing. The pressure must be enormous.

 

[haribobo]

Her team appears to think her programs are her biggest problem and the cause of her current troubles.

How do you know what her team thinks? Can't a lady just change a program because she likes something else better? All this hand wringing and psychoanalysis is really not helping anyone. I have been working on putting together a zumba playlist for potentially teaching a class, and its 16 routines for an hour class...and I am constantly swapping out routines out of boredom/finding ones I like better. I get its not 100% analogous but we aren't the ones who have to listen to the same music day in and out. If you only have 2 programs to put out to the world, would you really find it easy to just stick to the same two all year even if you felt it didn't represent the best of you? So easy for us to say, oh just pick something and stick to it. She could do that yes. But maybe all this switching actually helps her stay invested/interested. There are plenty of snoozy programs dragging skaters down every year that they probably should dump, and don't...

 

[Iluvid]

Karen Chen has dumped BOTH her programs. Going back to last year's SP and LP.

oh lord! Why?

 

[Iluvid]

How do you know what her team thinks? Can't a lady just change a program because she likes something else better? All this hand wringing and psychoanalysis is really not helping anyone. I have been working on putting together a zumba playlist for potentially teaching a class, and its 16 routines for an hour class...and I am constantly swapping out routines out of boredom/finding ones I like better. I get its not 100% analogous but we aren't the ones who have to listen to the same music day in and out. If you only have 2 programs to put out to the world, would you really find it easy to just stick to the same two all year even if you felt it didn't represent the best of you? So easy for us to say, oh just pick something and stick to it. She could do that yes. But maybe all this switching actually helps her stay invested/interested. There are plenty of snoozy programs dragging skaters down every year that they probably should dump, and don't...

It's a lot harder to skate to new programs than it is dance or zumba routines. I've done all three. This is why skating is such a hard sport.

 

[Vagabond]

Oy. My head! If true, this smacks of desperation.

Stéphane Lambiel used to change his programs regularly in midseason, reportedly more out of boredom with the old programs than anything else. Unless Karen Chen or someone close to her says she's changing programs out of desperation, let's give her the benefit of the doubt and assume there's some other reason.

 

[Willin]

@haribobo Because there's no other reason to change a program this late in the season. (Well, I guess unless you're Lambiel, but he's the ever present exception to the rule) The things with programs are that, even if you repeat ones from the previous season, you need to have time to get used to that program again. I can tell you that even if you've done a program 100 times, as soon as you learn a new program you'll forget the old one to some extent. Senior-level programs are insanely complicated, and there is so much choreography involved. Even just getting the feel of your blade through the turns on transitions and step sequences is different for each program. You don't have to relearn the entire thing, but you sure as heck need to remember how to do it well. That's why if you're going to change a program or change back to an old one, you should do it early in the season - not 1.5 months before the most important competition of your life (Nationals - because no one's a true lock for that Olympic team), and about 2.5 months out from what could be an even more important competition.

I do think this is a self-doubt thing. There was that season where she kept changing skates (she had what - 14 pairs?) because she thought the skates were the problem. This season she's blaming the programs for her struggles and constantly switching them out. Honestly it just all seems like a mental problem.

Now, more than before, I see this as another one of the US Ladies falling victim to the spotlight. Sure, her team didn't jump the gun on it quite as much as Gracie's did, but they did jump on it despite her already seeming to lack confidence or consistency. It's hard to gain confidence when you're inconsistent or not meeting your own expectations, but it's even harder to gain confidence when you've become one of the top US Ladies in an Olympic year. And certainly even harder when you yourself are promoting yourself as a top skater (ie. the kids book and the rather extensive local news coverage) despite not being at that level quite yet. Now all of your failures are scrutinized not just by you and your team, but also by fans and the news and USFSA. And instead of your failures just being kept in skating news, it's broadcast wider because of the Olympics. And because the US media likes to make our figure skaters seem competitive, it's easier to fail in their eyes (ie. 6th at a GP may be a bad day in some years, but in an Olympic year it may be seen as an outright failure), so there's more to answer for. I can't imagine she's having an easy time this season.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

@Vagabond I don't feel the judges have sent her a message this year that we don't care for your programs or we don't care for your music. They have sent her a message to clean up and land the jumps.

Changing and dumping programs with this frequency reminds me of skaters who coach hop constantly.

She can change programs 4 more times before Nationals but unless she tweaks those jumps no program from her past will get her on podiums. But this is just my opinion and I kept everything in check tonight eating no more than probably 400/500 calories!!!!

Im a good boy!!!

 

[haribobo]

@haribobo
I do think this is a self-doubt thing. There was that season where she kept changing skates (she had what - 14 pairs?) because she thought the skates were the problem. This season she's blaming the programs for her struggles and constantly switching them out. Honestly it just all seems like a mental problem.

You seem to be implying that the skates were not the problem. Do you have inside info on the boot changing thing? Can you point to an interview where she is specifically "blaming the programs for her struggles"? Just because the program switching would not work for you, until this season plays out we cannot proclaim that it's not working out for her. Maybe there is some truth to much of your post, but maybe its all not as big a deal as you're making it out to be.

I think a lot of us are thinking of that year at Nationals that Amber Glenn tanked in the FS and forgot choreo/messed up jumps in part due to a recent switch in programs. And that was really sad to watch, I agree. When in doubt, going back to an old program is a much wiser move than starting over with a new one. Whatever we think of it, Karen has competed those old programs many more times than any of her new ones, so if that's where she feels confident, cool. If Karen skates her best or close to it, good luck to everyone else. Her skating quality is so fabulous that to me the programs don't matter all that much, but last year's programs were good and if that helps her feel the fire again, then great. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

 

[AxelAnnie]

How do you know what her team thinks? Can't a lady just change a program because she likes something else better? All this hand wringing and psychoanalysis is really not helping anyone. I have been working on putting together a zumba playlist for potentially teaching a class, and its 16 routines for an hour class...and I am constantly swapping out routines out of boredom/finding ones I like better. I get its not 100% analogous but we aren't the ones who have to listen to the same music day in and out. If you only have 2 programs to put out to the world, would you really find it easy to just stick to the same two all year even if you felt it didn't represent the best of you? So easy for us to say, oh just pick something and stick to it. She could do that yes. But maybe all this switching actually helps her stay invested/interested. There are plenty of snoozy programs dragging skaters down every year that they probably should dump, and don't...

My DIL is a judge. She told my the judges told Karen to drop Carmen.

 

[VGThuy]

I guess slow dancing in the city just didn’t have the impact she wanted. I thought the music was pretty and she could have made it sing with an inspired performance. I don’t know if Tango Jalouise will ever sing. It doesn’t help that the Tango LP is pretty streamlined and empty and characterless.

 

[Coco]

The sad thing is that the program itself doesn't matter like it used to. It's the content that determines the placement.

I think everyone knows this, and this is one reason they are less averse to repeating programs. Also, the technical requirements are such that it's really hard to find a program that simultaneously maxes out your TES AND has an emotional impact.

So I'm afraid Miss Chen has wasted a lot of energy on something that doesn't matter as much as it used to.

 

[MRani]

Well, I’m still not sold about Karen’s LP, but I have to say her last year’s SP is beautiful and absolutely perfect for her. If there’s any program that should give her confidence, it’s that one. We don’t know how long ago she made the switch but hopefully she’s had enough time to relearn the choreography. I’m worried though.

 

[skatfan]

I guess slow dancing in the city just didn’t have the impact she wanted. I thought the music was pretty and she could have made it sing with an inspired performance. I don’t know if Tango Jalouise will ever sing. It doesn’t help that the Tango LP is pretty streamlined and empty and characterless.

It was lovely music but at this point in her career she needs a real choreographer and not try to do it herself. The program looked empty to me.
Carmen seemed a Strange choice for her lyrical style and a little beyond her emotional range at the moment. While I thought the SP to the MR tango worked, I really liked the On Golden Pond SP too.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Karen Chen has dumped BOTH her programs. Going back to last year's SP and LP.

Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore. Or are we?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

It's a lot harder to skate to new programs than it is dance or zumba routines. I've done all three. This is why skating is such a hard sport.

Short Dance is one long zumba routine this season!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The sad thing is that the program itself doesn't matter like it used to. It's the content that determines the placement.

Preach!

 

[Carolla5501]

I don't think you can blame the media for Karen's issues (if there is any reason to blame anyone) Honestly, Karen Chen doesn't seem on the mainstream media's radar screen. NBC is promoting Gracie Gold more than Karen I don't think the media is making much out of the competition within the US Ladies.

 

[GullyGirl84]

I've definitely seen Ashley and Karen (Ashley more so) featured in NBC Olympic promos. Not sure if it's a media pressure thing, because she was never that consistent when the attention was less so on her (during the grand prix last year), and when she's performed well has been at her two high pressure events. I still think that even if she does not skate her "best" at the next nationals, that the technical panel will try to be kind to her as a thank you for getting the three spots (I know that Ashley helped too). Not saying that's right, but that's how I see it, plus I think that they will see her as having high score potential when she does hit. Jackie Wong's read outs of her SA practices sound a little scary though.... Though I guess I shouldn't put too much on that, it was only day 1 of practices. Someone here has to read that book of hers when it comes out though and give a review

I wish that she had switched back to On Golden Pond before Skate Canada, and was trying to stick it out with her new LP, I thought it had potential...I'm kind of over her doing tangos, but they're not terrible at least.

 

[Carolla5501]

Karen could be beat by a lot of women at Nationals IMHO, but they didn't step up last year and she did. So good for her. But she can't depend on that again, someone else might show up just like she did last year!

I don't think the fact that she "earned" the three spots is going to get her that much in the way of points. She's got to finish in the top 3. Her consistency and overall results probably won't get her on the Olympic team otherwise.