The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

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sap5 said:
There's a small part of me that hopes there a lot of falls at this Olympics and neither of these two win. The way the judges are setting this up is just annoying. None of these programs are masterpieces yet, and they shouldnt be receiving these kinds of scores.
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I'm with you. I don't wish disaster for any team, and I hope all teams stay healthy and have a positive experience at the games. But, this is still a sport and unforeseen circumstances can occur. Let's hope by then the judges have sobered up and politicking has been contained. (There's a bit of Panglossian philosophy for you!)
 
You deleted your answer to me? It's just a question trying to understand someone's post.
 
marbri said:
You deleted your answer to me? It's just a question trying to understand someone's post.
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LOL no I change my mind about my answer, I wanted to check before. :)

EDIT : And I did good because I was mistaken.
 
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I feel like people should either be judges or technical specialists/controllers, not both.

David Molina was a judge at COC last week and he was working for the French federation, trying to advance their interests. Now the very next week he's on the tech panel where he's supposed to be neutral and working for the ISU.
How can he switch from one to the other like that? If nothing else, the optics are terrible.
 
Zazy said:
I feel like people should either be judges or technical specialists/controllers, not both.

David Molina was a judge at COC last week and he was working for the French federation, trying to advance their interests. Now the very next week he's on the tech panel where he's supposed to be neutral and working for the ISU.
How can he switch from one to the other like that? If nothing else, the optics are terrible.
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Yes it really is. Are there are any rules in ISU guidebooks to prevent that from happening? Either way the skating world is small so it can be difficult to find solution to every similar problem. I just naively hope that there are no bribes and under the table deals, but politicking / lobbying is indeed a real thing ... everything points to that.
 
Zazy said:
I feel like people should either be judges or technical specialists/controllers, not both.

David Molina was a judge at COC last week and he was working for the French federation, trying to advance their interests. Now the very next week he's on the tech panel where he's supposed to be neutral and working for the ISU.
How can he switch from one to the other like that? If nothing else, the optics are terrible.
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I mean it's not an isolated case at all... happens all the time. I think the numbers of judges/Tech specialists isn't big enough. But I want to see before I judge myself.

Whether you like it or not, the Tech specialist at SCI was Canadian. That is also a big problem because with anybody else (let's say Italian, Russian, German,...) the levels could have dropped big time.
If for example, V/M get level3 on the PSt in the SD at NHK, you'll complain it's the TS&TC's bad call, the TC is French. Okay, if you want to. Then, they'll tell you the TS at SCI was Canadian and he pushed this level up. So that's why all this situation isn't ideal at all.
I'm taking the PSt as an example, because you can have an awesome SD, this is the hardest element to judge. One turn, one liiiight stumble/bobble, anything unclear can make it drop to level3 ASAP.
 
Anyasnake said:
I mean it's not an isolated case at all... happens all the time. I think the numbers of judges/Tech specialists isn't big enough. But I want to see before I judge myself.

Whether you like it or not, the Tech specialist at SCI was Canadian. That is also a big problem because with anybody else (let's say Italian, Russian, German,...) the levels could have dropped big time.
If for example, V/M get level3 on the PSt in the SD, you'll complain it's the TS&TC's bad call, the TC is French. Okay, if you want to. Then, they'll tell you the TS at SCI was Canadian and he pushed this level up. So that's why all this situation isn't ideal at all.
I'm taking the PSt as an example, because you can have an awesome SD, this is the hardest element to judge. One turn, one liiiight stumble/bobble, anything unclear can make it drop to level3 ASAP.
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You're reading things into my post that weren't there. It's not about Molina being French, or even how his calls might go, it's about the ISU not even trying to pretend that technical specialists are neutral. They have so much power over the scores, the least they could do is keep a certain distance from their country's federation which would certainly include not being a judge!
 
Zazy said:
You're reading things into my post that weren't there. It's not about Molina being French, or even how his calls might go, it's about the ISU not even trying to pretend that technical specialists are neutral. They have so much power over the scores, the least they could do is keep a certain distance from their country's federation which would certainly include not being a judge!
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I wanted to add to what you said. I don't know if cutting the link between judge and Tech specialist is a good idea. On the other hand, yes, judges have to cut as many ties as possible with their country's federation.
This is funny how we're talking about all this and the outcome might be money, especially in the 1990s. However, skaters earn so little money that I wonder sometimes why all of this even happens (Disclaimer : I'm not saying it's happening now, but it did a lot in the past and it created a bad reputation for Russia for example).
 
Zazy said:
I feel like people should either be judges or technical specialists/controllers, not both.
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Tech specialists have to have achieved a certain level of skating (in the U.S., they have to have competed at Nats or Sectionals or coached a skater to one of those comps). Most judges didn't reach that level, although most were competitive skaters at some point. I believe tech controllers don't need to meet the same reqs as the TS/ATS and they can be judges (I know one judge in my area has also been a TC at club/regional events).
 
So we'll have some clarity on our GPF qualifiers after this weekend at NHK, but there's also a lot of uncertainty. Virtue/Moir, Papadakis/Cizeron, and the Shibs are all likely double golds, leaving three slots.

Next week in France will really tell the tale. Whoever wins silver between Weaver/Poje & Chock Bates will qualify with two silvers, leaving just two spots. Whoever wins bronze will be in the silver/bronze fight to be decided on tiebreakers with Bobrova/Soloviev. Add in Hubbell/Donohue if they win silver over Cappellini/Lanotte in Japan, and if C/L snag the silver at Skate America.
 
I made a post over the weekend saying Chock/Bates had already beaten Bobrova/Soloviev if they win at least bronze in France, but I was wrong about that. Bobrova/Soloviev's Rosetelecom score is higher than C/B's score at CoC. Even if Weaver/Poje win bronze in France, their scores from Skate Canada will beat Bobrova/Soloviev in a tie break. Things get tricky if Stepanova/Bukin surprisingly win silver in France, then there's another team to add to the tie break group and most likely whichever between W/P and C/B place fourth will be out of the running.
 
Here are the GP standings in dance (didn't see it linked anywhere): http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2017/gpsdance.pdf

C/B need to score at least 183.09 in France to beat B/S in a tiebreak. That's a bit lower than they scored at CoC, so barring a major error, I think they can do it. I'm hoping they'll make some adjustments/improvements to increase the levels/score in the SD and I'm hoping that the GOEs and PCS in the FD will go up now that the program has some mileage.
 
There’s been lots of helpful posts scattered through the various threads that have highlighted the difference between “Ballroom Latin” and “street/party/club Latino dance genres.”

Watching all the top teams’ SD’s tonight back-to-back, I think there was a gaping, missed opportunity for one of those teams to go over entirely to the culturally authentic side. It would have immediately stood out and would go viral like Davis/White’s Bollywood OD did in the Olympic season.
 
barbarafan said:
He latined the hell out of the short dance as well
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It might be that learning certain dance movement is comparable to learning a foreign language. To be able to sound like a native, you have to learn a language before you are ten. I think Jean Luc learned the "latin walk" (hip and weight transfer) when he was quite young. His mother was an ice dancer!
 
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