U.S. Ice Dance 2017/18 season news & updates

[Lara111]

I do not understand what the deal with Chloe and Logan. They seam to skate very well and they get these low scores - not sure. They are in a different class from my opinion from N/K and yet scores are so close. Anybody understand why they score so low?

 

[Lutzlvr]

And both of their events were with US controllers.

Perhaps someone can clarify who does what on the technical panel. It was my understanding that the tech specialist makes the call (CAN in this case) and the tech controller (USA) makes the tie break if their is a disagreement between the tech specialist and the assistant tech specialist (POL). So every element really requires a confirmation of 2 callers. If we get into a discussion on country bias, then we would have to start from the premise that the USA teams were somewhat disadvantaged going in (given that their closest rivals were from CAN). So the controller does wield power but only in the case of a disagreement between the other 2 callers.

Regardless, I think it is a pleasant surprise that Nguyen/Kolesnik have been well-received internationally. It is certainly great for US ice dance that a young and new team has the opportunity to score well internationally, given how teams historically have had to wait in line and pay their dues in dance. The more teams that we have developing quickly, and competively, the better it is for the program overall. When we look at the long list of great Russian teams capable of high scores, I think it is fantastic for USFS to have experienced teams like Carreira/Ponomarenko and Lewis/Bye as well young teams like the Greens, Gropman/ Somerville and now Nguyen/Kolesnik developing. I like that we have Gunter/Wein, Amoia/Becker, the Elders all getting international experience and developing. More competition is a good thing and it just makes the entire program that much stronger.

 

[Dobre]

Perhaps someone can clarify who does what on the technical panel. It was my understanding that the tech specialist makes the call (CAN in this case) and the tech controller (USA) makes the tie break if their is a disagreement between the tech specialist and the assistant tech specialist (POL). So every element really requires a confirmation of 2 callers.

Yes, it's the technical specialist who is the caller. Then--if I remember correctly from past discussions--the assistant technical specialist who has to agree or disagree. And the controller only comes into play if those two disagree.

The Canadian caller in Italy has been busy already this fall. She called the Autumn Classic, Finlandia, and this junior event. It makes one realize that the pool of callers must not be that large. I am curious about the process for people who become callers. As they represent the ISU rather than a specific country, do they apply through the ISU rather than through their own Federation to become a caller? Or do they need to apply through their Federation first? And how are assignments made for different events? I remember someone saying once last year that the specialist was invited by the host of the GP. Is that accurate? Are callers selected from a pool of people who are willing to travel to a certain event? (Often they are regionally local, though obviously not always).

 

[gkelly]

Perhaps someone can clarify who does what on the technical panel. It was my understanding that the tech specialist makes the call (CAN in this case) and the tech controller (USA) makes the tie break if their is a disagreement between the tech specialist and the assistant tech specialist (POL). So every element really requires a confirmation of 2 callers.

I don't know about dance specifically.

I have gotten to overhear some calling on the singles at local events. Each member of the panel will look for different features, especially on the step sequences. The ATS and TC will chime in "yes" or "no" whether the skater achieved that feature, and then the TS will add that info to the features s/he was keeping track of and call the level.

Any of them could then say "Review." That could be because the ATS or TC disagrees with the call, but more likely because there was something ambiguous about what the skater(s) performed that they want to see again, in slow motion if applicable.

The question of overruling the initial call (or not) will only arise if there is a review.

I have heard that for pairs calling especially on side by side elements member of the panel will watch the man and the other will watch the lady.

I expect that dance tech panels divide the labor similarly.

The Handbook for Technical Panels: Ice Dance specifies the following procedure for calling key points in pattern dances:

How should the calling of Key Points be
organized among Technical Specialist and
Assistant Technical Specialist?
▪Key Point for man or lady performed
separately: called by the Technical
Specialist.
▪Key Points for man or lady performed
simultaneously: Key Point for lady called by
the Technical Specialist. Key Point for man
called by the Assistant Technical Specialist.
▪Key Point for both man and lady: called by
the Technical Specialist. The Technical
Panel may be organized so the Assistant
Technical Specialist has the duty to double
check one of the partners and the Technical
Controller has the duty to double check the
other partner.

So it seems there can be some flexibility from one panel to another on exactly who is responsible for what.

 

[Sylvia]

I started this general thread based on part of @Dobre's above post: Questions about Technical Panels (ISU, national, local level)

@gkelly, @Lutzlvr and others, feel free to reply/post there, too.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Yes, it's the technical specialist who is the caller. Then--if I remember correctly from past discussions--the assistant technical specialist who has to agree or disagree. And the controller only comes into play if those two disagree.

The Canadian caller in Italy has been busy already this fall. She called the Autumn Classic, Finlandia, and this junior event. It makes one realize that the pool of callers must not be that large. I am curious about the process for people who become callers. As they represent the ISU rather than a specific country, do they apply through the ISU rather than through their own Federation to become a caller? Or do they need to apply through their Federation first? And how are assignments made for different events? I remember someone saying once last year that the specialist was invited by the host of the GP. Is that accurate? Are callers selected from a pool of people who are willing to travel to a certain event? (Often they are regionally local, though obviously not always).

I don't understand how someone can be coach on some events and Technical specialist at other event
Doesn't make any sense to me. TS in Brisbane is the coach of Russian team P/V
Shouldn't people who sit on panel be totally impartial? Or at least give us the impression they are

 

[Dobre]

I don't understand how someone can be coach on some events and Technical specialist at other event
Doesn't make any sense to me. TS in Brisbane is the coach of Russian team P/V
Shouldn't people who sit on panel be totally impartial? Or at least give us the impression they are

The TS in Brisbane was Margalio.

Sylvia mentioned this in another thread; but for the sake of clarity here, he doesn't coach P&V.

 

[acraven]

I think coaches are preferred for filling the assistant technical specialist role because of their knowledge base.

 

[Sylvia]

The TS in Brisbane was Margalio.

Sylvia mentioned this in another thread; but for the sake of clarity here, he doesn't coach P&V.

I quoted and replied to Moustaffask8r in this GSD thread: Questions about Technical Panels (ISU, national, local level)

Chloe Lewis blogged for the second time this season (from beautiful Egna/Bolzano, Italy last week): http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017...s-provides-readers-with-unique-taste-of-italy
Excerpt:

Overall, this competition is one I will always remember. Even though we didn't take home a medal, we feel proud and satisfied with what we put on the ice. It feels so rewarding to have put everything we could into those programs after overcoming a bit of a hurdle in the middle of the season (that hurdle being an illness that took me off the ice for a month just after Australia) and making it to Italy. I will also remember Egna/Bolzano as one of the most charming, nostalgic, breathtaking places I have ever been to.

Michael Parsons seems to be enjoying touring around Moscow before his first GP with sister Rachel:
St. Basil's Cathedral: https://www.instagram.com/p/BacLiaKFCks/
Bolshoi Theatre: https://www.instagram.com/p/BabydA1F0x0/
Rachel framed in a colorful setting: https://www.instagram.com/p/BacJkQQFfjk/

IN's Shibutanis article before they debut their programs at Rostelecom Cup: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/10/18/258922394

I started a new thread for the Shibutanis' season-long blog here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...7-18-season-long-blog-for-teamusa-org.102048/

 

[RoseRed]

Michael is also featured in a couple of Piper Gilles' Instagram stories at the rink.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

The TS in Brisbane was Margalio.

Sylvia mentioned this in another thread; but for the sake of clarity here, he doesn't coach P&V.

My mistake P/V were in Brisbane so obviously their coach wasn't the ts but she was assistant TS in Riga. What if Hagenauer, Shpilband or Zueva were TS or assistant TS on some events ! Im not sure people would be ok with it....

 

[Dobre]

My mistake P/V were in Brisbane so obviously their coach wasn't the ts but she was assistant TS in Riga. What if Hagenauer, Shpilband or Zueva were TS or assistant TS on some events ! Im not sure people would be ok with it....

Agreed. Though I had no problem with the scores in Riga. They were tight but fair, IMO.

(Comparing scores from different events is a flaw built into the GP system. I can't think of a better way, though).

 

[Sylvia]

Today I came across this Pogrebinsky/Benoit NBC video feature & article (scroll down for an extra video of Alex acting): http://ksn.com/2017/10/19/going-for-the-gold-ice-dancers-dream-of-the-biggest-stage/
This was filmed in Lake Placid, Novi ice arena and Oakland University's theatre/stage where Alex played the male lead in "Bullets over Broadway."

 

[Lara111]

Does anybody know if a former coach (may be someone who was a coach several years ago) be on a tech panel or a judge in the competition where his former student competes?

 

[Jun Y]

Does anybody know if a former coach (may be someone who was a coach several years ago) be on a tech panel or a judge in the competition where his former student competes?

I don't think there is any rule against a coach tech specialist judging their former students. For example, I am almost certain Judy Blumberg was on the tech panel for competitions including Lewis/Bye.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Isn't one if the roles on the tech panel limited to coaches and former competitors at a certain level?

 

[Lara111]

I don't think there is any rule against a coach tech specialist judging their former students. For example, I am almost certain Judy Blumberg was on the tech panel for competitions including Lewis/Bye.

Not at Sectionals/Nationals. Last year Judy was in Pacific but L/B went East. At Nationals she judged all levels but Juniors. Was it intentional?

 

[RoseRed]

Not at Sectionals/Nationals. Last year Judy was in Pacific but L/B went East. At Nationals she judged all levels but Juniors. Was it intentional?

She was however, ATS at JGP Brisbane where they competed

 

[VGThuy]

Well, Congrats to the Shibs for winning their fifth GP title and having four out of the six GP titles to win. We all know there is work to be done here, but at least you have a gold around your necks. Also, their FD score continues a trend starting from 2016 Worlds, where the Shibs have scored 110+.

 

[Lara111]

She was however, ATS at JGP Brisbane where they competed

I guess ISU does not know about their ties. I would have had an issue with it.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

I guess ISU does not know about their ties. I would have had an issue with it.

It’s the officials resposability to declare their conflict of interest!
She’s way too close to that team to be technical specialist on any event where their competing.

 

[figureskatingforlife]

Rumors have it that Lewis/Bye were seen training Friday in Canton, MI - which means Zoueva’s rink. Don’t know if it what a one time thing but a coaching change is something they definetly need I think. The old situation just won’t work for them.

 

[Lara111]

Rumors have it that Lewis/Bye were seen training Friday in Canton, MI - which means Zoueva’s rink. Don’t know if it what a one time thing but a coaching change is something they definetly need I think. The old situation just won’t work for them.

This is interesting.

 

[Lara111]

It’s the officials resposability to declare their conflict of interest!
She’s way too close to that team to be technical specialist on any event where their competing.

Agree

 

[Lara111]

Does anybody know if a former coach (may be someone who was a coach several years ago) be on a tech panel or a judge in the competition where his former student competes?

Here is the policy:
II. CONFLICT OF INTEREST A. A direct conflict of interest exists when I (or my parent, sibling, child, spouse, skating or life partner) have accepted any monies during the previous one year for teaching, choreographing or consulting any competitor in an event. B. An indirect conflict of interest could arise through any personal, family or financial relationship that could be perceived as a conflict of interest. This includes any situation that has the potential to undermine the impartiality of a person. C. As a TP official, I agree to the following: i. I will not participate in any event (i.e. intermediate ladies free skate) in which I have a direct conflict of interest. ii. I will disclose all direct and possible indirect conflicts to the LOC when accepting an invitation to serve at a nonqualifying competition. If a conflict is discovered after the invitation has been accepted, I will notify the Chief Referee immediately. iii. I will disclose all direct and possible indirect conflicts when submitting my availability to serve at qualifying competitions. If a conflict is discovered after I have been assigned to a qualifying competition, I will notify the TP Captain immediately. iv. If I discover a conflict or possible conflict while at a competition, I will immediately notify the TP Captain (if applicable), TC of the event, and Chief Referee. v. After disclosure, if those officials agree that a conflict exists, I will remove myself from serving on that event. If those officials do not agree, the chief referee will make the final decision.


So technically she can judge them. I personally would find it a problem though.

 

[Dobre]

I thought perhaps the reason she didn't run the panel among the juniors at Nationals was because of Lewis & Bye also. And I was surprised to see her in Brisbane. As in Riga, though, I don't see any sign of biased scoring. The tech panel in Brisbane was tough on L&B.

If we lose Judy as a TECH specialist for Nationals at the senior level when L&B move up, it would be a shame. I think she is both tough and well-respected.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

I thought perhaps the reason she didn't run the panel among the juniors at Nationals was because of Lewis & Bye also. And I was surprised to see her in Brisbane. As in Riga, though, I don't see any sign of biased scoring. The tech panel in Brisbane was tough on L&B.

If we lose Judy as a TECH specialist for Nationals at the senior level when L&B move up, it would be a shame. I think she is both tough and well-respected.

I agree on some part. But from the news articles in Sun Valley and Oregon newspaper she was more than a coach to those kids so I don’t see how she can sit on a tech panel while they’re competing... maybe the fact that she was in Brisbane didn’t help Them at all. But this is just an example. Other team on international junior level are the same. P/V, Russian team that won Brisbane, the coach is also a TS or ATS at some of the JGP. I don’t see how this can be accepted in the community.... we all know how figure skating is always struggling with politics ...have we forgotten the scandal that lead to the new system to try and improve. If we accept that active coaches stand on tech panel aren’t we going a step back ? I’m not sure people would accept Shpilband, Zueva or Hagenauer on a panel... maybe there’s a rule where if you have more than one team you cannot be on a tech panel? I’m curious to know what the rules are? How can you be paid as a coach , choreographer and be a TS.
Judy is not the only one: Margalio(works with Zueva), Zukiwsky(choreograph Canadian teams),Lyapina .....

 

[gkelly]

From the ISU Special Regulations and Technical Rules for Single and Pair Skating and Ice Dance:

1.To be eligible for first appointment as an International Technical Specialist, the Official must fulfill the following requirements:
a) Age: have reached the age of twenty-four (24) but not the age of
seventy (70) in the calendar year of the nomination.
b) Background:
i) be recruited from the group of Coaches, former competitive Skaters, or ISU/International Judges or Referees;
ii) be involved on at least a weekly basis for the discipline concerned on site;
iii) have been a former high level Skater (as a minimum at national level);
iv) have the highest knowledge of the discipline concerned with regards to the technical aspects;
v) possess good communication skills;
vi) be able to take directions and work within a team environment.
c) Service: have served, during the twenty-four (24) months preceding July 31st of the calendar year of the nomination, as a Technical Specialist in two (2) National Competitions (as per Rule 411, paragraph 9.a).
d) Seminar attendance: completes an ISU Seminar for first appointment of International Technical Specialists (see Rule 417).
e) Examination: passes successfully the ISU Examination to become an International Technical Specialist.
f) A minimum of two (2) season waiting period must be given between the end of the competitive skating career and the first nomination

The rules for subsequent appointments are similar.

So it seems that knowledge and current familiarity with techniques is the highest priority to the ISU for the technical specialist position.

I'm not sure how "be involved on at least a weekly basis for the discipline concerned on site" applies to judges and former competitors who are not coaches. Most of them have day jobs. Does this mean they would have to be officiating at domestic competitions in their home countries every weekend before they could apply for an international TS appointment? Would getting on the ice themselves for exercise with whatever skills they have currently fill that bill?

I don't see anything in these rules regarding conflicts of interest. Maybe there is something in an ISU Communication somewhere.

 

[Lara111]

I thought perhaps the reason she didn't run the panel among the juniors at Nationals was because of Lewis & Bye also. And I was surprised to see her in Brisbane. As in Riga, though, I don't see any sign of biased scoring. The tech panel in Brisbane was tough on L&B.

If we lose Judy as a TECH specialist for Nationals at the senior level when L&B move up, it would be a shame. I think she is both tough and well-respected.

We would lose much more if competitions perceived to be rigged due to unfair judging.

 

[Jun Y]

We would lose much more if competitions perceived to be rigged due to unfair judging.

I understand what you mean and used to think the same, but nowadays I just accept that fair judging is and always will be a relative and fluid idea in figure skating. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that bad, considering how much worse politics and manipulation can achieve.

Plus I don't have any issue with Blumberg judging L/B. I don't see any sign of favoritism from her and she is highly qualified. I would rather have her on the nationals panel than a "pure" conflictfree person who is less qualified.

We have to take into consideration also that there aren't that many international level tech specialists available in the US, and ice dance is it's own little insular sector.