The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[VGThuy]

I think there is a very low likelihood that Hub/Don end up third at the Olympics. I think they are in the Weaver/Poje camp and don't have the overall look and skill set that ice dance judges like, at least not enough to make them a top team if there is any type of competition.

I'm honestly confused about what the judges as a whole like outside of V/M and P/C these days. The scores at Worlds seems like they're all confused too. I think the judges all have different hierarchies with teams 3-9 at the moment and though that means the tech panel has most of the power there, who makes up the judging panel will also make all the difference because GOE and PCS bumps from just the right number of judges and them having you high enough in the hierarchy while disagreeing on which teams are higher than you can make a difference in a close contest like this.

 

[Rossig]

but V/M said that if they are offered the possibility to skate both SD and FD at the team event, they will (because they want to skate at the Olys as much as they can).

Did they really say so? I can't help but feel sorry for WeaPo. I don't blame V/M. They are athletes so it's their role to compete. But I thought that maybe they would want to concentrate more on the individual competition and maybe thanks to that WeaPo would get a chance to skate FD in the team event.

 

[VGThuy]

Did they really say so? I can't help but feel sorry for WeaPo. I don't blame V/M. They are athletes so it's their role to compete. But I thought that maybe they would want to concentrate more on the individual competition and maybe thanks to that WeaPo would get a chance to skate FD in the team event.

I mean with V/M, they have an almost guaranteed top two placement in both the SD and FD. It'd be sort of stupid not to use them in that case since the end result is winning a gold medal. Can't leave anything to chance no matter how much of an advantage you think you may have going into the team competition.

 

[Rossig]

I mean with V/M, they have an almost guaranteed top two placement in both the SD and FD. It'd be sort of stupid not to use them in that case since the end result is winning a gold medal. Can't leave anything to chance no matter how much of an advantage you think you may have going into the team competition.

I realise you are right. And unfortunately there is no place for sentiment in sport. But it doesn't make me any less sorry for W/P.

 

[VGThuy]

I realise you are right. And unfortunately there is no place for sentiment in sport. But it doesn't make me any less sorry for W/P.

No, I hear you. I just think it's inevitable so better prepare for that now. Hopefully, you can be surprised with good news later this season if W/P actually do get to participate in the team competition. They have been dutifully representing Canada in the past few seasons' year-end team competitions and winning every time.

 

[sap5]

Yes it would be a shock but I can't help being reminded of Torvill and Dean's comeback and how sure everyone was that they would take gold, or at worst, silver.

I admit I feel the same way. Especially during the Olympic year. There's a part of me that thinks judging has nothing to do with what is shown that day and it's 100% political. Like you could have a team win individual gold without even skating at all.

 

[marbri]

I would also like to see W/P skate team for an opportunity to medal as well but I wish they were skating their 2012 Latin SD and their Maria de Buenos Aires programs this year instead of what they are skating. Things could change but if Canada wants a medal in team at this stage they need V/M in both parts.

 

[chapis]

I don´t know what to think about the team competition, for me, more skating is better, but I don´t know for the skaters.

Pros:
-They have more exposure to the general public, it is always good to get more fans, sponsors, and for public have time to understand better what they are offering.
-They could use the team competition like preparation for the individual comp.
-If they make mistakes in the team event, they have a second chance to redeem.
-Some skaters have not other way to get a medal or a better metal than the team competition.

Cons:
-Some general public get tired fast, they could be dissapointed to see the same program twice (for us that perspective is weird and ridiculous but normies are like that), and olympics are an emotional stage, if someone have a memorable performance in the team event, a second performance can be difficult to top, the magic even for the judges could be gone or unconsciously they will expect no less than the previous performance.
-Some skaters are very hard with themselves and they can burn out in the team competition.
-The emotional impact that the team performance have is unpredictable, if they make a mistake it could motivate them or make them doubt themselves.
-The hype can be hurtful adding much pressure for the individual comp (example Yulia L. )

 

[Anyasnake]

Cons:

-Some skaters are very hard with themselves and they can burn out in the team competition.

I rewatched some FDs at Sochi yesterday, the individual event. I don't know if it was me, but though in their performance, it was fire and everything, but looking at people's faces... big dark circles

Did they really say so? I can't help but feel sorry for WeaPo. I don't blame V/M. They are athletes so it's their role to compete. But I thought that maybe they would want to concentrate more on the individual competition and maybe thanks to that WeaPo would get a chance to skate FD in the team event.

Yeah they did, in an interview. And since Canada has a great chance for the gold, they probably will.

 

[allezfred]

I think there is a very low likelihood that Hub/Don end up third at the Olympics. I think they are in the Weaver/Poje camp and don't have the overall look and skill set that ice dance judges like, at least not enough to make them a top team if there is any type of competition.

They finished 3rd in the short at Worlds and if Donohue hadn't fallen in the free I'm convinced they would have won bronze. Their programme was that much better and marks for the Shibutanis were very muted.

I would also like to see W/P skate team for an opportunity to medal as well but I wish they were skating their 2012 Latin SD and their Maria de Buenos Aires programs this year instead of what they are skating. Things could change but if Canada wants a medal in team at this stage they need V/M in both parts.

Even if Virtue/Moir only skate one part of the team event, there is no way Canada is not medalling. Canada v Russia for gold in my opinion and I'd be betting on Canada.

 

[marbri]

Even if Virtue/Moir only skate one part of the team event, there is no way Canada is not medalling. Canada v Russia for gold in my opinion and I'd be betting on Canada.

Am I nuts thinking the US is in there as well? They could easily win the math contest in Mens, they are strong in dance and there is nothing stopping their ladies or pairs (it could happen ) from having an Olympic moment. The potential is there, there was only 5 points between them and Canada in Sochi.

 

[allezfred]

US Ladies not as strong as they used to be and uh pairs.

 

[Anyasnake]

Am I nuts thinking the US is in there as well? They could easily win the math contest in Mens, they are strong in dance and there is nothing stopping their ladies or pairs (it could happen ) from having an Olympic moment. The potential is there, there was only 5 points between them and Canada in Sochi.

No you're definitely right : Chen + 3 ID teams that could easily go into the top 5 (all 3 of them) + ladies who know how to rise at the Games
Canada vs Russia vs USA ?
who has the advantages :
Men : USA (with Chen)
Ladies : Russia, then Canada, then USA (CAN/USA reversed if CAN bomb and not USA)
Pairs : Russia because D/R have not delivered lately, but USA isn't close to CAN
Dance : Canada, then USA, then Russia but Russia could pass USA depending on who is doing the team event.

 

[snoopy]

Remember a country called Japan? They will top the US in mens and ladies, pushing US scoring down.

The US is not a gold medal contender in the Team Event.

 

[clairecloutier]

They finished 3rd in the short at Worlds and if Donohue hadn't fallen in the free I'm convinced they would have won bronze. Their programme was that much better and marks for the Shibutanis were very muted.

This is my belief too. I do feel the door is open for H/D to possibly win bronze in Korea. Just as important, I think they know and really believe it, too.

 

[Anyasnake]

Remember a country called Japan? They will top the US in mens and ladies.

The US is not a gold medal contender in the Team Event.

Of course, BUT pairs and dance :/ RUS and CAN has ALL of them.
I don't count the USA out since ice is slippery

 

[marbri]

US Ladies not as strong as they used to be and uh pairs.

I know but with the Americans you can't rule out Olympic moments

 

[MarieM]

You know I thought their SD last season was as dreadful as their one this season but they did skate and present it much better by Worlds so they could do the same again.

@skategal I don't see Canada as a favourite for gold. I think the only solid strength they have is dance, the other three disciplines can run very hot/cold where depending on who they skate against in the first round could put them in a very weak position. I am basing this on how the team event worked in Sochi.

eta....is there a thread somewhere describing how the team event works this coming games and what countries will compete?

The HUGE difference is that Zhulin was behind them ALL season long to make it work.
He and his co-coach went with Nikita to a minor russian cup competition this week, leaving Bobrova all alone. So IMO, it won't work.

And I do take back EVERYTHING I said about Tessa&Scott's costume being close to vulgar. Now that I've seen what Vika is wearing, those costumes look mighty fine.
Vika is vulgar, there is only one way to say it. Brrrrrrrrrr.

 

[levineismine]

My bet for bronze is on a US team. I think it will be whoever comes ahead between the 3 of them throughout GP/GPF/US nationals. Consistency will be the keyword for H/D, if they avoid big mistakes I think the judges are ready to put them first (at least the international judges). They started off the season well and are keeping the buzz from last year.

Unfortunately W/P have had their time and haven't looked the same after 2016, and I say it as a big fan of theirs. I think this year's programs look uninspired (but hope to change my mind as the season goes by).

Same for C/L, I think their time has passed but I hope they go out with a medal at home worlds.

B/S are the question mark for me in terms of political push, first if their country is still behind them, and second what international judges do with PCS. They do have a good FD, but the SD could keep them behind. Of course it's still early in the season, but already Russian GP should tell us something.

 

[Jammers]

Yes it would be a shock but I can't help being reminded of Torvill and Dean's comeback and how sure everyone was that they would take gold, or at worst, silver.

@marbri, I don't see Canada or anyone as a favourite for the team event. It seems wide open. But if Canada pulls off a win, I suspect that will factor into the ice dance judging.

T/D were not in their prime like V/M still seem to be plus V/M competed last season and won everything while T/D didn't compete for almost a decade.

 

[RoseRed]

I'd love to see H/D end up with the bronze medal. They're my favourite of the US teams. I think there are a few questions that I'll be watching as the season goes on:

- What do the judges think when P/C and V/M go head to head? I think they are both so strong that we won't be able to tell until they go head to head who has the advantage, especially since the programs are still growing.

- Who's the number one US team going into the Olympics? I think US Nats could be very interesting.

- How do Coomes/Buckland stack up against the teams fighting for bronze? They were a top ten team before the injury and they did look strong at Nebelhorn. Can they get themselves into that mix?

- How do S/B and S/K stack up? Can S/K get in there for the 2nd spot? I don't really have a preference here, as of now.

- Who ends up with the Olympic spot for Spain? What about the 2nd French spot?

- How do the lower ranked US teams look? Only 3 of H/B, P/B, M/C and the Parsons will go to 4CC. And how do Soucisse/Firus compare to them, since they'll be at 4CC for Canada?

 

[kittysk8ts]

I'd love to see H/D end up with the bronze medal. They're my favourite of the US teams. I think there are a few questions that I'll be watching as the season goes on:

- What do the judges think when P/C and V/M go head to head? I think they are both so strong that we won't be able to tell until they go head to head who has the advantage, especially since the programs are still growing.

- Who's the number one US team going into the Olympics? I think US Nats could be very interesting.

- How do Coomes/Buckland stack up against the teams fighting for bronze? They were a top ten team before the injury and they did look strong at Nebelhorn. Can they get themselves into that mix?

- How do S/B and S/K stack up? Can S/K get in there for the 2nd spot? I don't really have a preference here, as of now.

- Who ends up with the Olympic spot for Spain? What about the 2nd French spot?

- How do the lower ranked US teams look? Only 3 of H/B, P/B, M/C and the Parsons will go to 4CC. And how do Soucisse/Firus compare to them, since they'll be at 4CC for Canada?

You should send this to TSL. Better yet, you should be the co-host! Great early season questions/summary

 

[RoseRed]

You should send this to TSL. Better yet, you should be the co-host! Great early season questions/summary

I'd certainly keep them organized

 

[starrynight]

The big question mark for the Olympics is who can stand up to the pressure and not choke.

Who would have predicted that after not even making the Grand Prix Final in 2013 that Ilinykh/Katsalapov would have cleaned up all the bronze placements at Sochi? Perhaps the lack of expectations benefited them.

 

[VGThuy]

The big question mark for the Olympics is who can stand up to the pressure and not choke.

Who would have predicted that after not even making the Grand Prix Final in 2013 that Ilinykh/Katsalapov would have cleaned up all the bronze placements at Sochi? Perhaps the lack of expectations benefited them.

I sort of did after TEB (and I think Nathalie Pechalat did too). Yeah I know their 4th place at NHK happened before that but I/K were just one of those teams that would be rewarded if they hit no matter many times they gave their fans (I.e. the judges) a headache. Once the team event happened it became clearer. When V/M got like a 114+ in the FD, I knew I/K were going to get a 110+ if they skated competently.

 

[barbarafan]

Anyway, since it's the Ice Dance thread and that Ice Dance is not just P/C and V/M I'd like to talk about the other team that are right on their heels. I think we can safely name H/D, The shibs, C/B, C/L, B/S, W/P and maybe also add G/P to that group of people who can rightly aim for the podium.

We haven't seen C/B, C/L and the Shibs program yet so we can't really talk about them, but so far, who made the strongest impression on you ?

W/P and H/D...I really think H/D should be USA 1 this yr....(Of course I have not seen the shibs & C/B this yr)

 

[barbarafan]

No, I hear you. I just think it's inevitable so better prepare for that now. Hopefully, you can be surprised with good news later this season if W/P actually do get to participate in the team competition. They have been dutifully representing Canada in the past few seasons' year-end team competitions and winning every time.

ITA If they feel they are up to it and are easily on top I am sure they wouldn't want to cost the other cdns a gold or silver olympic medal.. However we are just starting the season and who knows how the programs will evolve... Let's just say W/P's new programs.either one starts to hit the moon and they are only a few pts behind V/M & P/C then it is possible they may step back on one of the programs...Nothing is certain in life and figure skating but they are training fullout in every way so that they have the stamina and conditioning to do it if necessary.

 

[barbarafan]

Would just like to give Kudos and thanks to those of us whose mother tongue is not English. You are all amazing & yes sometimes there r words which are not quite right but it is usually easy to figure out. I just joined an old ppl club at our Y & one of the classes are beginner Spanish so jumped at the chance to learn another language. They started 2 weeks before I joined and I am so lost. My 2nd class is tomorrow morning and I am going to have to work and practice all night. Is it fair to give a 66yr old homework?...Just asking.

 

[clairecloutier]

I'd love to see H/D end up with the bronze medal. They're my favourite of the US teams. I think there are a few questions that I'll be watching as the season goes on:

- What do the judges think when P/C and V/M go head to head? I think they are both so strong that we won't be able to tell until they go head to head who has the advantage, especially since the programs are still growing.

It will indeed be interesting, when P/C and V/M go head-to-head ... but it will only happen once, at the GP Final. And the GPF can be a weird event.

I still vividly recall D/W beating V/M at the 2009 GPF -- but it was only silver in Vancouver.

Then there was the year (2015-16?) when Weaver/Poje won the GPF really convincingly--and didn't even make the podium at Worlds.

Not to mention what happened with the Shibs last year. At 4CCs, they were legitimately close to V/M. Then at Worlds, it was like they were miles away again, according to the judges anyway! Still scratching my head about that one.

Whatever happens at this year's GPF, I'm going to take with a big grain of salt.

 

[RoseRed]

It will indeed be interesting, when P/C and V/M go head-to-head ... but it will only happen once, at the GP Final. And the GPF can be a weird event.

I still vividly recall D/W beating V/M at the 2009 GPF -- but it was only silver in Vancouver.

Then there was the year (2015-16?) when Weaver/Poje won the GPF really convincingly--and didn't even make the podium at Worlds.

Not to mention what happened with the Shibs last year. At 4CCs, they were legitimately close to V/M. Then at Worlds, it was like they were miles away again, according to the judges anyway! Still scratching my head about that one.

Whatever happens at this year's GPF, I'm going to take with a big grain of salt.

Of course, but I meant more that the GP results when they aren't against each other are even more meaningless. After V/M and P/C had each skated one event last season, P/C seemed like they really had the edge, for example. But it was different when they were head to head.