The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[Isabelle.G]

Because I kind of am (although I would rather not be a fan of any teams BTW).

P&C and V&M represent both sides of the coin of Ice Dancing to me.
V&M have some of the best skating skills I have ever witnessed in Ice dance. Of course I am somewhat not pleased with their programs, because they could do so much more in my mind. The fact that they're doing (even if it's just half a FD) something I've longed them to do (a tango of course) pleases me to death.
But I am also not too happy about their programs this season. Because I feel like it's not fully cooked yet. Because I'd have loved them to go full tango in the FD (a prince like FD on a tango) and more classic in the SD. Because I had expectations that are not met. But hey, by january, I'll have changed my mind as usual

P&C are another side. I focus less on their technic, it's the wholeness of their FD that I like. The fact that everything is there to bring the program to life, and not a succession of elements. If I do focus on their technic, it's top notch. They're not at V&M's level yet on some points being younger, on others, they are better.
Still I am not pleased with how they treat SDs in general or that they are only focusing on one style (even if it's not the same, but almost the same). They feel and make me feel their program. But that's a very "european" vision of Ice dance, I know it's not something a NA team would do "naturally".
They are also the first IMO to bring back choreography in the front of ice dance.

Ice dance is a cycle always going back and forth between technic or choreography. So I know that in 4 years we'll be back to technic only and no more choreography. But I prefer the latter.

Still I do enjoy both teams equally and my heart wishes both could win the same medal because IMO, they are what's best in ice dance.

This! Thank you! I've always felt that their origins distinguish them as well. I prefer a way more the so-called "european" type of skating, but that's no surprise as I'm a European as well. I simply don't like when the attention is only to the female skaters who smile throughout the whole program no matter if the couple's dancing to a funny/sad story.

And to the "same style again and again" - it's true their last 4 FDs were pointed into one direction. For me, they aren't the same, but I agree they don't differ from each other in terms of "style". (If that's the right choice of words). So yes, P/C haven't shown the versatility as other teams probably have, but it is so because they haven't seemed to be interested in that. Their focus was on something else. Saying that, I don't think they'd master any other style in a minute and without a problem, it's just a part of/the reason why the last 4 FDs seem to be "the same dance all over again" to some people. I might be wrong, it's just the way I see this "versatility problem of theirs".

 

[marbri]

@MarieM That's a nice long post and "kind of" proves what I was suggesting.

 

[VGThuy]

Honestly, I wouldn't even call P/C a "European" style because not many European teams were doing what they were doing when P/C first did it AND European teams are diverse and offer different styles. I think they're almost a throwback to the 1989-1992 era in that a dance was about the whole and you have to use a holistic approach to appreciate everything that they do. If anything, they have continued the French tradition of going concept first while actually filtering it through a more North American (or Canadian) look where it's all about class and beauty rather than drama. They're very detailed oriented, though I understand if people disagree with that when comparing the content to V/M's content, but P/C's attention to detail is making sure they move throughout the entire dance with certain beauty, shape, or distinct look. You can take a picture at any part of the program and it'll be like a dance magazine cover. I don't think even V/M has that quality, even if their more celebrated dances like Carmen. I won't go so far as to say P/C invented a new style or anything like that because I simply don't agree with that, but I do think they with Gadbois showed that COP style ice dance does not have to look like what Igor/Marina were doing when their teams dominated the field.

Sure you can criticize P/C for side-by-side skating but you have to admit those sorts of holds and the way they do them was very refreshing after all the pushing and pulling at arms length holds we had from Igor/Marina. RE: their lifts. I think many longtime watchers find it refreshing after all the busy D/W and V/M lifts that with some exceptions where they focused on one position, got tedious to watch and didn't really amount to anything. I don't remember most of it. I did remember them at first because at the time it was novel (like D/W's first combo lift in POTO).

I do wish the Shibs had gone to a different team when they were younger honestly because I think their qualities as juniors could have been packaged and developed better with a different style of teaching, but then they probably wouldn't have the success that they had by being brought up in that school because they honestly did learn a lot from Igor/Marina.

If anything V/M this season are closer to what I think of European style (if I think of things that way) in that, ignoring the music of MR, it's more hard hitting and dramatic and about attack. I see a Denkova/Stavisky doing what V/M are doing rather than what P/C are doing.

 

[marbri]

I've said before that what many are calling the P/C style is the Montreal style. Dubreyul/Lauzon skated that way themselves ( minus the years they had their programs choreographed in France) and I first noticed it with them as coaches with with the Spanish teams Picasso FD (where they also showed a different approach to lifts) THAT, imo, was the program and style that was a breath of fresh air in ice dance when all others were busy copying Detroit. It is the vision that Marie France and Patrice have for good ice dance. It just got more attention when they had a team of P/C quality skate it. Just as V/M did for Canton style. P/C didn't skate or look they way before they moved to Montreal.

 

[VGThuy]

Remember when people were excited about Detroit Skating Club and Camerlengo/Krylova because they were offering something different from Canton at the time? I still think it's sad that they didn't fully capitalize on the excitement from the 2011-2012 season. I guess the same could be said about Sato/Dunjen as well in singles during that same period. That said, it's never too late.

 

[legjumper]

To me, "same dance all over again" is Cappellini/Lanotte, where there isn't a development or exploration of an idea or theme but rather a straight re-presenting of it each season. Papadakis/Cizeron, on the other hand, give the impression of developing a style of movement, where each season explores a slightly different mood or angle to that movement. So yes, their FDs are all similar, but it's not just regurgitation or rearranging the set dressing. To some that may be splitting fine hairs, but (unless we are quoting protocols ) is just my opinion.

 

[VGThuy]

To me, "same dance all over again" is Cappellini/Lanotte, where there isn't a development or exploration of an idea or theme but rather a straight re-presenting of it each season. Papadakis/Cizeron, on the other hand, give the impression of developing a style of movement, where each season explores a slightly different mood or angle to that movement. So yes, their FDs are all similar, but it's not just regurgitation or rearranging the set dressing. To some that may be splitting fine hairs, but (unless we are quoting protocols ) is just my opinion.

I totally get it and I agree with you. I do like that C/L really dance though.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I totally get it and I agree with you. I do like that C/L really dance though.

Ditto. I also think they light up the ice performance wise. I've always enjoyed them

 

[sap5]

To me, "same dance all over again" is Cappellini/Lanotte, where there isn't a development or exploration of an idea or theme but rather a straight re-presenting of it each season. Papadakis/Cizeron, on the other hand, give the impression of developing a style of movement, where each season explores a slightly different mood or angle to that movement. So yes, their FDs are all similar, but it's not just regurgitation or rearranging the set dressing. To some that may be splitting fine hairs, but (unless we are quoting protocols ) is just my opinion.

I agree with you about P/C, but disagree with you about C/L.

 

[marbri]

I remember the time when Cappellini and Lanotte went in a totally different direction, tried something new and were ripped to shreds, dropped it and went back to the safer option. I would have like doing to see them stick it out but critiques can be really harsh and very quick to condemn a program creating narratives that are hard to overcome.

 

[chapis]

I remember the time when Cappellini and Lanotte went in a totally different direction, tried something new and were ripped to shreds, dropped it and went back to the safer option. I would have like doing to see them stick it out but critiques can be really harsh and very quick to condemn a program creating narratives that are hard to overcome.

I really liked that program, but they looked so unprepared, I always suspected that one of them was injured that season or during the off season.

By the way, they present their new programs this week in Nice.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I remember the time when Cappellini and Lanotte went in a totally different direction, tried something new and were ripped to shreds, dropped it and went back to the safer option. I would have like doing to see them stick it out but critiques can be really harsh and very quick to condemn a program creating narratives that are hard to overcome.

Ya, that was the year after they won Worlds I think. I would have liked them to stick that out as well because they and the program were quite beautiful. But you cannot "lose your momentum" and/or "regress" in scores and continue to be in the mix.

 

[Anyasnake]

I love C/L. I almost feel that the competition is empty without one of their fun programs. A pure joy to watch. Actually, they've made their mark on the ice dance field and I think that a very emotional moment is waiting for us in Milano (this is probably their last season I believe...)

 

[kittysk8ts]

I love C/L. I almost feel that the competition is empty without one of their fun programs. A pure joy to watch.

Yes! In a field of dramatic and then lyrical performances, they are a breath of fresh air during competitions for me. I like all of these styles. I like it better when we get to see a mix is all

 

[Marta24]

I`m counting on Cappellini/Lanotte to have a Latin Short Dance. Especially, Lanotte did a great job back in 2012.

 

[MarieM]

To me, "same dance all over again" is Cappellini/Lanotte, where there isn't a development or exploration of an idea or theme but rather a straight re-presenting of it each season. Papadakis/Cizeron, on the other hand, give the impression of developing a style of movement, where each season explores a slightly different mood or angle to that movement. So yes, their FDs are all similar, but it's not just regurgitation or rearranging the set dressing. To some that may be splitting fine hairs, but (unless we are quoting protocols ) is just my opinion.

So so unfair. She's not even dying at the end anymore nowadays.

 

[PRlady]

When someone posts a dance clip of Torvill/Dean or K/P or even other, lesser teams from the '90s, I'm blown away by the creativity of the moves and the expression of the music. CoP made dance easier to judge, and probably less political in the results, but with a huge loss of individuality in the FDs.

I'll watch the French, the Canadians and my sentimental favorites H/D with enjoyment, even though I'm not at all happy with V/M's free dance, because they're all expressive of an individual style and emphasis, done very well. But I'm not as happy anymore watching the lower-ranked teams all in a row, as it's hard to distinguish what makes each team special.

 

[chapis]

Someone said in goldenskate that Anna and Luca won't be competing in Nice

 

[chantilly]

Boo!
I actually love C and L.
I think they skate small, have less speed power and depth of edge then the top
Teams, but I think they're the best actors on the ice and are just compelling and lovely to watch.

 

[firstflight]

Wasn't C/L's Danse Macabre a V/M throwaway program? It made sense to me that C/L would be kind of uncomfortable with the first version and that the choreography simplified by the end of the season.
Still, I appreciated hot Luca's portrayal of a tempter

 

[Dobre]

Someone said in goldenskate that Anna and Luca won't be competing in Nice

Sigh. Well, there went my excitement for this weekend. They are signed up for the Minsk Challenger as well so we may still see them before NHK. But I shan't schedule a weekend around it. I didn't really expect to see them at both events, but the lack of an update saying we are choosing one over the other is making me nervous.

 

[binbinwinwin]

Someone said in goldenskate that Anna and Luca won't be competing in Nice

http://nice-baie-des-anges.fr/images/stories/docs-coupe/resultats2017/SEG011.HTM

They're no longer listed in the starting order

 

[forthewin]

And to the "same style again and again" - it's true their last 4 FDs were pointed into one direction. For me, they aren't the same, but I agree they don't differ from each other in terms of "style". (If that's the right choice of words). So yes, P/C haven't shown the versatility as other teams probably have, but it is so because they haven't seemed to be interested in that. Their focus was on something else. Saying that, I don't think they'd master any other style in a minute and without a problem, it's just a part of/the reason why the last 4 FDs seem to be "the same dance all over again" to some people. I might be wrong, it's just the way I see this "versatility problem of theirs".

See, this is why I can't get behind P/C. They prefer staying in their comfort zone because that gives them results. And they claim it's the true art which they're only interested in. I've never seen V/M so lack of courage and mindset of challenging themselves.

 

[sap5]

See, this is why I can't get behind P/C. They prefer staying in their comfort zone because that gives them results. And they claim it's the true art which they're only interested in. I've never seen V/M so lack of courage and mindset of challenging themselves.

When you say "comfort zone," what do you mean? Because it's very possible to stay within one style of dance but be outside of your comfort zone. Last year's FD is a great example. They struggled all season with it, because that first piece of music was quite difficult to translate using the sweeping movements they favor. But by Worlds, they had figured it out; and once again, the audience was enthralled. I'd say that's taking on a challenge and succeeding.

 

[forthewin]

When you say "comfort zone," what do you mean? Because it's very possible to stay within one style of dance but be outside of your comfort zone. Last year's FD is a great example. They struggled all season with it, because that first piece of music was quite difficult to translate using the sweeping movements they favor. But by Worlds, they had figured it out; and once again, the audience was enthralled. I'd say that's taking on a challenge and succeeding.

I guess people do see different things. You say they challenge themselves by sticking with the same movements for different music, I say they lack the ability to adapt and change it up to truly interprete music. And I think that is also happening with MS. They make music to suit them instead of understanding the music and then expressing it.

 

[maya1985]

what a pleasure to read you ... I am convinced that in reality you appreciate them and their program... given the number of messages you write about them

You really do not understand their program because yes they really interpret the music: each of their gestures marries each note of music. I'm sorry but it's not the same movements if you want to believe it you can
"Lack of courage": it is disrespectful.

 

[lauravvv]

http://nice-baie-des-anges.fr/images/stories/docs-coupe/resultats2017/SEG011.HTM

They're no longer listed in the starting order

A pity, really. Once again, I hope that Anna is actually okay by now, and that they withdrew only because they did not have enough training time.

 

[Anyasnake]

@forthewin I think you secretely like them, don't be in denial ! No, but you're allowed to appreciate one team or the other but what's with the "Lack of courage" thing ? Courage = doing a polka for the Olympic season ? Cause I think both you and me will hate to see that.
But really if you think Mozart (love story inspired by the ballet Le Parc) is the same as Build a Home (contemporary w/ story-telling about friendship) or as Stillness (abstract/movement based choreo), it's a bit odd. I understand that people say there is a certain music style about them (more lyrical, piano based-music), but the dances are very much different, ESPECIALLY last year's FD. This year is more of combination of the 3 with a very-well known piece of classical music. Very them.

 

[Anyasnake]

http://nice-baie-des-anges.fr/images/stories/docs-coupe/resultats2017/SEG011.HTM

They're no longer listed in the starting order

I'm hope Anna is okay though that's the more important. But I was REALLY looking foward to seeing them.

 

[aftershocks]

Honestly, I wouldn't even call P/C a "European" style because not many European teams were doing what they were doing when P/C first did it AND European teams are diverse and offer different styles. I think they're almost a throwback to the 1989-1992 era in that a dance was about the whole and you have to use a holistic approach to appreciate everything that they do. If anything, they have continued the French tradition of going concept first while actually filtering it through a more North American (or Canadian) look where it's all about class and beauty rather than drama... If anything V/M this season are closer to what I think of European style (if I think of things that way) in that, ignoring the music of MR, it's more hard hitting and dramatic and about attack. I see a Denkova/Stavisky doing what V/M are doing rather than what P/C are doing.

Haguenauer has said that the reason he joined with D/L and moved to Montreal bringing Pap/Ciz with him was in order to meld the European aesthetic with the North American style. He felt that synergy is what's happening now, and he was correct. Haguenauer knew D/L from their days training together with Muriel Boucher-Zazoui