U.S. Pairs 2017 - News & Updates, Part VII

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insideedgeua

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[QUOTE="Ainsley Peterson also paired with Josh Levitt ( although I believe that is over already).

Yes. At the recent US National, Ainsley Peterson won silver in Novice Pairs with Kristofer Ogren. So Josh Levitt is already a long gone story...[/QUOTE]
Ainsley and Kris split immediately after Nationals and Kris has a new partner. Josh was his replacement. That is now over too.
 

DFO

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Thanks. I was thinking Josh was last year. I really liked Peterson/Ogren. I hope Ainsley will find a good Partner too.
 

Jojo13

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Pairing of Simon/Yao looks good. Loved Simon/Weinstein together too. Does anyone know if Weinstein has found a new partner? I hope so. She is a beautiful skater.
 

DDNatalia

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So is there ANY possibility (mathematical, but remote) that the US could earn a second spot? At Nebelhorn? Through some country with 2 spots ahead of the US not having a second team that has some requirement not met like, ... I don't know, minimum TES or something?

Or it is FOR SURE, only 1 spot.

And given that for the one team, the responsibility would be to compete 4 times (2 shorts, 2 Frees) which is on the more demanding side, the US would surely consider sending the alternate over toe Korea during the event, standing by and ready to step in, should that one team be unable to compete for some reason? That seemed to be how the decision was made to spend the money to send C/L to Helsinki, even though by the time they arrived there, it was just to watch.
 

olympic

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So is there ANY possibility (mathematical, but remote) that the US could earn a second spot? At Nebelhorn? Through some country with 2 spots ahead of the US not having a second team that has some requirement not met like, ... I don't know, minimum TES or something?

Or it is FOR SURE, only 1 spot.

And given that for the one team, the responsibility would be to compete 4 times (2 shorts, 2 Frees) which is on the more demanding side, the US would surely consider sending the alternate over toe Korea during the event, standing by and ready to step in, should that one team be unable to compete for some reason? That seemed to be how the decision was made to spend the money to send C/L to Helsinki, even though by the time they arrived there, it was just to watch.

As I understand it, the qualification process at Nebelhorn Trophy only allows skaters from nations who have 0 entries to qualify 1 entry. The system never has allowed for skaters w/ 1-2 entries to qualify 2-3 entries at a Fall qualifying competition.

Frankly, that is one thing I would change if I ran the ISU.
 

Sylvia

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So is there ANY possibility (mathematical, but remote) that the US could earn a second spot? At Nebelhorn? Through some country with 2 spots ahead of the US not having a second team that has some requirement not met like, ... I don't know, minimum TES or something?

Or it is FOR SURE, only 1 spot.
It's 1 Olympic spot according to the ISU as of April 4, 2017: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...s-dance-team-event.100715/page-4#post-5052630

ETA:
As I understand it, the qualification process at Nebelhorn Trophy only allows skaters from nations who have 0 entries to qualify 1 entry.
Correct.
 
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AngieNikodinovLove

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I guess at this very moment Im not all that bummed anymore USA lost a spot at Olys... C&L only got 105 in free, D&F never qualified for the free at Worlds....

With their SP score of C&L that wouldnt have qualified them for a free skate anyway at Worlds/Olys. Ugg, I need some aspirin.

I know things can be different next season but the criteria is determined now....

Im curious to see the next season of Stellato & Bartholomay..anywhooo......

I guess Knierims or bust....
 

kwanfan1818

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So is there ANY possibility (mathematical, but remote) that the US could earn a second spot? At Nebelhorn?
No and no.

Only members who didn't earn any spots in the discipline in Helsinki can earn a spot at Nebelhorn, although those who earned spot(s) in Helsinki can compete at Nebelhorn for WS points and the team trophy, if there's room after potential qualifiers get theirs.

If any spots are returned, they are assigned to the next-in-line from Nebelhorn.

The ISU would need a change to the Special Regs to do otherwise.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Any chance any of the US pairs will move to John Zimmerman this offseason? James and Cipres improved tremendously with him and his team this year.

I hope something happens. Natalia Mishkutenok anyone?

Ugggg only thing that can depress me more is hearing La La Land on steroids next season.
 

olympic

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I've been thinking a lot about coaching changes as a tool for any skater's improvement.

Skaters catch fire and become great due to a confluence of various components to various degrees: 1) Natural talent; 2) Good technique taught from a young age; 3) A skater's personal drive, ambition and competitiveness (it's you on the ice alone); 4) health; 5) funding (expensive sport); and 6) good or smart coaching. A good coach in my view will only get you one-sixth of the way to the top.

The problem w/ U.S. pairs right now is not necessarily coaching. First and foremost, the U.S. has experienced a mixture of bad luck through injury (#4). Secondly, technique fails our pairs at inopportune moments (#2). I really can't comment on the cause of that, but as an example that has been beaten to death, there is a serious inconsistency by U.S. Pairs to land strong jumps, but also I notice basic stroking is not fast and powerful as you see from Russian pairs for example.
You can argue that Bruno Massot and He-Zhang are not necessarily lithe or graceful. Both look more like the incredible hulk on the ice, but both are adequate enough on the ice, gets the SBS elements done, and showcase some of the best pairs girls around which opens the door to big marks. Chris and Brandon are members of our best teams, but unlike Bruno and Zhang, they struggle with 'getting the job done'. Both have a 'wooden' appearance in their movements. Their stroking tends to be weaker and I want to be fair: They have improved, especially Chris.

But until we have a pair team that has that natural talent, confidence, good coaching and drive all rolled up into one, the U.S won't bust through the top ranks.
 

Cleo1782

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^^ This. With Knierims back and K/O on the mend, things will look up. Last year Mervin had a concussion, Tarah had a torn knee, Alexa horrible stomach issues and Haven was recovering from knee injury (reconstruction?). Sounds like a perfect storm to me. With all this happening and the rest of the World healthy and fighting, is it really all that surprising what has happened? As the saying goes, this to shall pass. Healthy teams will produce results.
 

Firedancer

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I wish the Knierims would switch to John. . .

Me too! I feel like they have most potential of all the US pairs and I don't know how much more Delilah has to offer them at this point. But since Delilah affiliated their wedding and stuff I figured the chances aren't very good.
 

leigh466

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Officiated is the correct word choice, but yes, they must have a close emotional bond, so doubt Knierim's will go to another coach. It must be very special to have that kind of relationship with a coach though--and beneficial in many respects.
 

olympic

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FWIW, I noted that Chris has improved his posture and stroking this year w/o a coaching change. That is a big deal. Maybe there will be more improvements this coming season while still remaining w/ Dalilah.

ETA - I think this shows that ultimately, it is up to the skater at a certain point to embrace their weaknesses and work on them.
 
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alj5

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Yeah, I think it's pretty unlikely that the Knierims will switch to Zimmerman but a girl can wish.

Maybe they could go to John Kerr & Sylvia Fontana for choreography?
 

clairecloutier

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^^ The Knieirims have announced that Christopher Dean is choreographing their new LP to Chaplin. No SP announcement yet. I wouldn't be totally surprised if they kept their "Come What May" SP, considering they only performed it in 2 competitions this season.
 

Sylvia

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FYI, Tarah & Danny's Fan Question Q&A will be posted on April 28th (aka, Tarah's birthday) just in case anyone was interested in reading it. It turned out to be a really fun interview with them! :cheer:
Here it is: http://figureskatersonline.com/news/2017/04/28/tarah-kayne-and-danny-oshea-answer-fans-questions/
Hope Tarah had a very happy birthday yesterday!

Jessica Pfund/Joshua Santillan posted a new "blog on our music and choreography choices, as well as some offseason updates": http://www.joshica.net/blog/uncategorized/music-choices-and-offseason-updates/
They explain their music choices and what it was like to work with their new choreographers:
SP: You Raise Me Up by Josh Groban, choreographed by Ilona Melnichenko
FS: Gone with the Wind choreographed by Phillip Mills
 

pairskatingfan

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Here it is: http://figureskatersonline.com/news/2017/04/28/tarah-kayne-and-danny-oshea-answer-fans-questions/
Hope Tarah had a very happy birthday yesterday!

Jessica Pfund/Joshua Santillan posted a new "blog on our music and choreography choices, as well as some offseason updates": http://www.joshica.net/blog/uncategorized/music-choices-and-offseason-updates/
They explain their music choices and what it was like to work with their new choreographers:
SP: You Raise Me Up by Josh Groban, choreographed by Ilona Melnichenko
FS: Gone with the Wind choreographed by Phillip Mills
Great insight into Tarah and Danny :D

Awesome to see some pairs trying different choreography, hopefully Ilona's choreography crosses over to pairs well too
 

aftershocks

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This year's National Pairs Camp is taking place in Westminster, Colorado (after being held in Fort Wayne, Indiana for the past few years). Dates are June 10-17, 2017 for Junior & Senior teams; June 15-18 for Juvenile, Intermediate & Novice teams.
"Faculty will feature international coaches and officials in the U.S.
Classes include: on ice jumps, lifts, death spirals, throws, twists, spins, choreography, stroking, off ice dance, theory classes, the high performance movement screen and S.T.A.R.S. (juvenile-novice only)."

I hope there will be ballet barre type training classes for stretch and body position awareness (NOT for ballet on ice training). It's just that ballet training off-ice in and of itself is excellent training for posture, fitness, stretch and body awareness. All of this is important for pairs skaters, and is probably also good training for them in synchronizing their on-ice moves.


Thanks @Sylvia. I loved hearing from Tarah & Danny. Snow is such a cute huggable dog. :D Probably Tarah would make a great voice actor. She's already a wonderful make-up artist. Happy Birthday to Tarah. :) Good luck to Tarah & Danny!

It's nice to hear from Josh & Jessica about how they chose their new music and choreographers for the upcoming season. I can't wait to see their progress at Skate Detroit this summer.
 
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aftershocks

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I guess at this very moment Im not all that bummed anymore USA lost a spot at Olys... C&L only got 105 in free, D&F never qualified for the free at Worlds....

With their SP score of C&L that wouldnt have qualified them for a free skate anyway at Worlds/Olys. Ugg, I need some aspirin.

I know things can be different next season but the criteria is determined now....

Im curious to see the next season of Stellato & Bartholomay..anywhooo......

I guess Knierims or bust....

Hey, buck up, it's not that simple. Who said pairs figure skating was that easy? Anyhoo, with the pile-on unfair neg rep U.S. pairs have, and what with all the gloom and doom from fans and sniggering from non-fans, what do you expect from judges? C/L skated very well in the sp at WTT, and that was a lowball score by the judges. A freak slip by Ashley and double fall for them both in the fp did not help how the judges already negatively viewed them. However, look at how they recovered and skated that fp out strongly. Their fp score wasn't bad considering the fall and it would have been a bit higher without the fall, but to be honest, even had C/L skated a clean fp, they were already being lowballed and looked down on.

Remember that C/L did not know they would be competing those programs again this season. They stopped working on their new programs in order to train and prepare for WTT. Therefore, all things considered, I think C/L acquitted themselves well, and they had a very good season for a team that have just barely now been together for almost a year, and they only began competing together late last summer. And still they wasted no time in getting their 3-twist, and they have many positives going for them to build upon. The key is to simply stop harboring over-expectations and enjoy the development process for all U.S. pairs teams, and offer them encouragement and support.

After losing a second spot at Worlds, I suppose U.S. pairs in terms of rep with judges, are in even more of a doghouse.
It's important to remember though that it was a tough season rocked by injury and illness for many of our teams, and coming back from serious surgery for Haven and for Alexa. D/F should not be judged on that one pressure-cooker, ultimately no-win situation where I believe too much adrenalin and nerves did them in. It all happened in a few split-seconds. But those results do not make D/F a bad team. And no athlete deserves to be compared to 'paint drying.' D/F deserve credit for their aesthetic progress this season and for simply toughing it out. They were in the arena giving blood, sweat and tears, and that's what counts. All of the naysayers on the sidelines should stop and reflect before criticizing. And us supporters should try to stay on an even keel.
 

Spiralgraph

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Just a little correction, aftershocks, the USA lost a spot at the Olympics, not next year's worlds. And if you ask me next year's worlds will be very important, for the US, if our skaters are ever going to show any competitive fire and improvement.
 

Sylvia

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After losing a second spot at Worlds,
Just a little correction, aftershocks, the USA lost a spot at the Olympics, not next year's worlds.
I think aftershocks meant the second Olympic spot was lost at this year's Worlds but, technically, it was the ISU rule that denied U.S. pairs the second Olympic spot.

2017 U.S. junior champs Nica Digerness/Danny Neudecker are preparing for their first senior season - some recent practice clips:
Throw triple loop: https://www.instagram.com/p/BSWgPUrgw5C/
Throw triple salchow (filmed on the ice): https://www.instagram.com/p/BTW9Fl-DUBs/
Side-by-side 3T (music playing is Debussy's "Clair de Lune"): https://www.instagram.com/p/BTW8Zm2Dmad/
New (long?) program beginning, choreo. by Rohene Ward: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTXooOzj2Je/
 

AKA

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So who is with who now? Lots of new junior and senior pairs. Any promising ones coming up?
 

olympic

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^^ This. With Knierims back and K/O on the mend, things will look up. Last year Mervin had a concussion, Tarah had a torn knee, Alexa horrible stomach issues and Haven was recovering from knee injury (reconstruction?). Sounds like a perfect storm to me. With all this happening and the rest of the World healthy and fighting, is it really all that surprising what has happened? As the saying goes, this to shall pass. Healthy teams will produce results.

Though, I would still say that like good coaching, health is only 1/6 of the way there. There are other components that SK/K, K/O and C/T really need to work on if they are to bust through. For example, K/O are decent on SBS elements which is a big deal for American pairs. They are musical and inventive, but they need more power and speed which might help them on elements like the 3twist and just accentuate the other elements. In contrast, Knierims can compete alongside the best but lose ground on all SBS elements. C/T have possible the best SS of any American team but lose many points on inability to land basic, elite level jumps. Technique might be the cause of their problems in some cases. Stage fright may be another cause. Who know.
 
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