U.S. Pairs 2017 - News & Updates, Part VII

[clairecloutier]

I don't have to personally think Cain/LeDuc were great at Nationals: the judges did, and they won the EDI performance award for the best Pairs program. That generally means they had quite the impact at Nationals.

So is USIFSC, and I don't take that particularly seriously; Mordovian Ornament was also a CS event and has become a joke as far as scoring is concerned.. S/B and J/C are good skaters, but this year was a break-out year for J/C after a coaching switch, and S/B were coming back from injury. C/T had their chance to outshine them, but didn't: instead they scored 27-30 points lower than J/C and S/B in the FS. If ACI holds the same importance to USFS as it does to you, that wouldn't exactly instill confidence in C/T.

Again, my point is simply that other U.S. teams besides Cain/LeDuc had good short programs this year; other U.S teams had fairly good long programs. Other U.S. teams did have scores that were internationally quite competitive and worthy. Basically, I'm just objecting to the characterization that Cain/LeDuc had the only "world-class" performance this year for U.S. pairs.

As to your digs at Autumn Classic, I don't get it. You can't really pick & choose which international events you personally think are important and valid vs. which aren't. Mordovian Ornament aside, after following the CS circuit pretty closely lately, I've come to the conclusion that most CS events are not in fact all that inflated (at least in pairs). For example if you look at most pairs' scores this season, the majority earned higher scores on the GP than in their CS events. I was also never talking about C/T's FS at Autumn Classic; or their overall performance there.

I merely pointed out the FACT that C/T's SP at Autumn Classic earned 67.50 pts. I see no reason why their score isn't as valid and significant as C/LD's at Nationals. It may not have happened on as big of a stage, but they did earn it, and it was a good performance. Same with Denney/Frazier at SA.

I agree C/LD had a great performance in the Nationals SP, but I disagree that it was the only "world-class" or good-quality performance from a U.S. pair this season. That's all I'm saying.

 

[kwanfan1818]

If anyone at USFS was looking at the rules, which I'm guessing they did, they knew that with SK/S being out with her illness, a relatively weak US Pairs showing this Fall, and the great strides that J/C were making, the US was in danger of being the "last" pair to qualify more than one for the Olympics and earning only one. Of course ice is slippery, but the odds were great, especially after the success Peng/Zhang have had all season, that China would get back three, and Russia and Canada would retain three. (I don't think anyone thought it would be that close for Canada, but they did it.) Italy had two teams that were likely to be somewhere between 10-14, France needed a top 10 from James/Cipres, which was likely after their Fall, and Germany was going to get two based on Savchenko/Massot's placement, unless they were forced to withdraw.

That made the SP the key to qualifying two Pairs for the Olympics. 15th overall would have made the difference. As we saw.

C/L hit it out of the park in the SP at US Nationals. It was at a pressure-packed event, unlike an early season CS event. They were just as likely to be under-scored as an aberration, a new team with middling CS results, especially SP results, as over-scored. They were within a point of 70, which is the magic number when it comes to taking notice of Pairs' competitiveness and being considered "world class." And they got better as the season went on, unlike C/T, who had a solid-enough performance as one of the teams with reputation at ACI to set themselves up for a strong FS there and regressed from that point on.

If SK/S had been at Nationals and able to replicate their early season score, C/L's achievement might have not seemed comparatively impressive. But SK/S weren't, and C/L delivered at a very high level.

 

[jmtfti]

Despite what actually transpired for Denney/Frazier in the Worlds short, their Grand Prix performances and scores -- including at a non-home GP, only a week after their first event -- if replicated would have ranked them around Seguin/Bilodeau, which, though outside the top 10, is nothing to sneeze at overall. We know in reality something went amiss after their strong start to the season and they had a particularly awful day in Helsinki, but a Grand Prix medal and fourth place are better than what any other U.S. pair this season had achieved heading into Nationals. I'm not clear why C/L's Nationals performance is more important than D/F's accomplishments over half a season (and they did, also, top C/L at a not-great 4CC) except that we have no evidence for how C/L may have fared at Worlds, while too much regarding what D/F did.

 

[kwanfan1818]

C/L's Nationals performance was not more important to USFS than D/F's accomplishments over half a season: D/F were assigned to 4C's and Worlds. It would have been interesting if C/L had performed better in the FS and finished closer in total to D/F, at which point, USFS would have had a real decision to make. If C/L had won the title, I assume USFS would have sent C/L to both competitions.

If D/F were able to replicate their mid-60's SP's in Helsinki, they would have made the FS. If they had even replicated their low-60's SP's in Helsinki, they would have squeaked by. They were solid enough in their Nationals SP; even their 4C's SP score would have placed them in the FS in Helsinki. They were the most consistent among the US Pairs.

This is not about D/F: this is about C/T not getting the 4C's assignment or being appointed first alternate.

 

[SidelineSkater]

Other than consistency and longevity, what is the biggest downfall with US Pairs? The missing link? SBS Jumps! Ok, maybe not the biggest downfall, but if you look at our top pairs over the last decade, consistent SBS jumps have been a big hurdle. With Cain/Leduc not only having fairly consistent, but heck, even harder(est) SBS jumps, I can see the rush to support our 'next great hope', not to mention what's already mentioned with their lines and performance quality. I'm excited by this pair. I think they have a lot to work on, including the 3Twist and speed, but considering their short partnership, I think they're well on their way.

Even before the injury, D/F had periodic jump issues. So do SK/K,C/T and so did Castelli/Shnapir, Evora/Ladwig, etc.

I did watch the pairs short at Nats this year live, and wow were Marissa/Mervin fast. So very speedy and great ice coverage! I didn't realize how fast they were when watching TV/online. Like most of our early pair parings, I was so excited at their potential! The jumps were hit or miss, I think especially last season. However, I think their lack of a consistent 2nd throw hurt them technically, so they had to be perfect otherwise - and most of the time they weren't. I still loved their Summertime SP. Their Journey LP not so much.

I don't think any of us would have predicted D/F not making the free skate. Even with the jump issues, who knew the North Koreans would have come on so strong. I assumed they would also have an advantage over the young Czechs and Aussies. I do like how far D/F have come with presentation. My one nitpick is their 3Twist - I wish they'd have a bit more amplitude. It seems as if she goes up quick, rotates quick, and comes back down without covering much ground or going up high - and maybe I'm just not describing this correctly. I really like them in their lifts - Haven is remarkable.

It's definitely an interesting time for our US pairs. Lots of possibilities, especially if one team rises to the top during the summer/fall comps.

 

[kwanfan1818]

From a technical side, after the jumps, few consistently big "wow" elements, either the L4 elements or enormous throws and twists. From the PCS side, relatively weak skating skills and synchronicity, and generally dated programs and packaging, and not in a retro, throwback "classical Russian" way. Even the ignored Chinese teams have better packaging than most US Pairs, and the ones with backing have Lori Nichol programs and ongoing polishing, which has done a world of good for them.

On the PCS side, C/T should be running away from the field, but they keep tripping themselves up.

 

[Impromptu]

I think Rohene did Oltmanns/Santillan''s SP to Beneath Your Beautiful which I loved.

He also did a short program for Baga & Toth (although that might have been the year they broke up so I don't know how many times they competed it).

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Fall, and the great strides that J/C were making

And Marchei & Hotarek and Della Monica & Guarise. Heck, the world was getting really good while our 2 top teams were coming off of or still working through very very severe injuries/illnesses.

 

[wickedwitch]

I think the USFSA needs to have the freedom not to go strictly by nationals results, because it then allows judges at Nationals to mark what they see on the ice, and not consider, subconsciously, who deserves international assignments more.

C/T are maddening, because while they are easily the most talented US pair, they are wildly inconsistent. The USFSA has given them plenty of support and opportunities over the past two seasons with little to show for it. I can't blame the USFSA for wanting to try something else.

 

[clairecloutier]

There are some updates on U.S. pairs in Sarah Brannen's new Inside Edge article about Ice Chips:

--Shaughnessy/Morgan have split. Jimmy's looking for another partner but is also pursuing other opportunities. Alex is keeping her options open for now.

--Marissa/Mervin had no comment on what happened after Nationals. But they are looking forward to next season and, since they can't go to the Olympics, expect they'll be facing less stress than other teams.

 

[Jojo13]

There are some updates on U.S. pairs in Sarah Brannen's new Inside Edge article about Ice Chips:

--Shaughnessy/Morgan have split. Jimmy's looking for another partner but is also pursuing other opportunities. Alex is keeping her options open for now.

--Marissa/Mervin had no comment on what happened after Nationals. But they are looking forward to next season and, since they can't go to the Olympics, expect they'll be facing less stress than other teams.

How tall is Jimmy Morgan? Is he willing to relocate? He is such a beautiful skater.

 

[olympic]

I think the USFSA needs to have the freedom not to go strictly by nationals results, because it then allows judges at Nationals to mark what they see on the ice, and not consider, subconsciously, who deserves international assignments more.

I do see movement in this direction generally. Two things the USFSA has been doing right lately is 1) Movement away from Nationals being the be-all and end-all for qualifying, and 2) serious usage of international Senior B competitions.

 

[Sylvia]

Thanks to the person who has passed along this program info for posting ...
Erika Smith/AJ Reiss are keeping their short program to "Tiny Dancer" by Elton John and Julie Marcotte is choreographing their new FS to Beauty and the Beast, which will include the song "Evermore."

 

[Sylvia]

Stellato & Bartholomay landing sbs 3Lz in practice: https://www.instagram.com/p/BS_qSkMhYQM/

 

[Spiralgraph]

Stellato & Bartholomay landing sbs 3Lz in practice: https://www.instagram.com/p/BS_qSkMhYQM/

That's terrific. I remember from a video after S/B had teamed up that they said they had landed sbs 3Lutz in practice, it's nice to see confirmation of that.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Stellato & Bartholomay landing sbs 3Lz in practice: https://www.instagram.com/p/BS_qSkMhYQM/

BRING IT!

We need a USA pair team that can jump!!

I hope they get a spot at SkAm. And I also hope USFSA sends them to all the B's under the sky next season like they did for C&L this season....

I hope with points from this weekend C&L may be high enough for 2 GP spots next season? Or am I wishful thinking?

Side note: I also feel like S&B shoulda been in second at Nats after the SP... was a bit disappointing judges wanted to hold up D&F...

Another side note still a bit of a surprise that of the top 3 teams after the SP 2 of those teams had only been together for only months.

 

[DDNatalia]

Stellato & Bartholomay landing sbs 3Lz in practice: https://www.instagram.com/p/BS_qSkMhYQM/

Raising the bar. Got to go for it, nothing to lose.

 

[kwanfan1818]

You can only be guaranteed two spots if you placed top 12 in singles or top ten in Pairs and Dance at Worlds. You can be de facto guaranteed two if you are a split couple or comeback skater/team that placed in the top six at Worlds within a given time period.

The other way is to get a guaranteed one from being in the top 24 or SB list, and then getting a TBA host spot.

C/L aren't guaranteed one right now, as SB 25. If they better their current SB of 172.18 by at least 1.33, they'll bump Kayne/O'Shea to SB 25. Or 1.32 will be an unbroken tie for SB 24.

Pairs is the toughest, with fields of eight. Fewer Pairs that are guaranteed one get two in the initial selection, and while Top 25-30 skaters can get non-host assignments, but rarely two.

If they bettered their SB by 20 at WTT and leapt up the standings, maybe.

 

[aftershocks]

Marissa/Mervin ... are looking forward to next season and, since they can't go to the Olympics, expect they'll be facing less stress than other teams

And here's hoping they use their 'less stress' time to practice aceing difficult jumping passes and throws! #FingersCrossed

 

[Doggygirl]

Am I the only figure skating fan on the planet that fails to see "chemistry" (in any positive sense) between Castelli / Tran??? I'm just curious. Obviously this is a subjective thing. To my eyes, this was never more apparent than live at US Nats.

 

[Spiralgraph]

^^^ Well what standard of connection do you mean? By USA Nationals standards, C/T weren't bad at all. But remember a lot of teams were absent and/or missing from Nationals, so if their connection is lacking, a viewer wouldn't notice it as much as if all the top teams were competing.
But I do get what you mean, Marissa and Mervin didn't look like they were enjoying skating. They were laboring and it showed. I thought C/L and D/F showed more connection and togetherness as did S/B in the short program. But hope springs eternal. Once they discard that awful Journey program, we might see a better side of C/T

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Am I the only figure skating fan on the planet that fails to see "chemistry" (in any positive sense) between Castelli / Tran??? I'm just curious. Obviously this is a subjective thing. To my eyes, this was never more apparent than live at US Nats.

Look at my previous posts.

 

[Sylvia]

This year's National Pairs Camp is taking place in Westminster, Colorado (after being held in Fort Wayne, Indiana for the past few years). Dates are June 10-17, 2017 for Junior & Senior teams; June 15-18 for Juvenile, Intermediate & Novice teams.
"Faculty will feature international coaches and officials in the U.S.
Classes include: on ice jumps, lifts, death spirals, throws, twists, spins, choreography, stroking, off ice dance, theory classes, the high performance movement screen and S.T.A.R.S. (juvenile-novice only)."

USFS' 2017-18 International Selection Pool as of 4/18/17:

Senior:
Ashley Cain & Tim LeDuc
Jessica Calalang & Zack Sidhu
Marissa Castelli & Mervin Tran
Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier
Nica Digerness & Danny Neudecker
Tarah Kayne & Danny O’Shea
Chelsea Liu & Brian Johnson
Jessica Pfund & Joshua Santillan
Alexa Scimeca Knierim & Chris Knierim
Erika Smith & AJ Reiss
Deanna Stellato & Nathan Bartholomay
[Joy Weinberg & Maximiliano Fernandez - reportedly not competing; names should be removed after they officially notify USFS]

ISU Junior age-eligible in 2017-18:
Elli Kopmar & Jonah Barrett
Laiken Lockley & Keenan Prochnow
Audrey Lu & Misha Mitrofanov
Gabriella Marvaldi & Daniel Villeneuve

 

[annie720]

Per the Dalilah & camp IG from today, Alexandria Yao and Jacob Simon have paired up. They were 3rd & 4th, respectively, at Jr Nats this year.

coach.dalilahExcited for this new pairing @allie.wow and @jacobsimonsays

 

[wickedwitch]

So I know Rudy Galindo is coaching. Does anyone know if he has any pairs teams?

 

[pairskatingfan]

So I know Rudy Galindo is coaching. Does anyone know if he has any pairs teams?

I haven't heard of him teaching any pairs, but who knows he may have some low-level teams. He was a great skater and I love what he did with Polina!

 

[insideedgeua]

Per the Dalilah & camp IG from today, Alexandria Yao and Jacob Simon have paired up. They were 3rd & 4th, respectively, at Jr Nats this year.

Not just Jacob and Alexandria, in the last few days there has also been Kris Ogren and Grace ( no surname given) and TJ Nyman and Sarah Feng.

Ainsley Peterson also paired with Josh Levitt ( although I believe that is over already).

Dalilah looks set for a busy season ahead with Danny and Nica, Max and Winter and of course Alexa and Chris.

 

[Sylvia]

Not just Jacob and Alexandria, in the last few days there has also been Kris Ogren and Grace ( no surname given) and TJ Nyman and Sarah Feng.

Sarah Feng used to dance with Anthony Ponomarenko (they won the U.S. Novice Dance bronze medal in 2014) and she was a competitive Junior level singles skater in the deep Pacific Coast Sectional last season, while Nyman competed in Junior Men at Nationals this year - here they are landing sbs 3T in practice: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTEjTmND7of/
Here's Kristofer Ogren and Grace (Hanns, I think?) landing sbs 2A in practice: https://www.instagram.com/p/BSyvTn9Dc12/

Ainsley Peterson also paired with Josh Levitt ( although I believe that is over already).

Both are on IPS now so perhaps it was an extended tryout that just didn't work out.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

This may have been posted elsewhere but reading about Cain & LeDuc here was refreshing.

They have had 2 new programs put together but arent announcing the music yet.

When Cain says other teams are going for points with 4twists and 4throws "maybe we can pile on points with our jumps" I was like... who? what? where? LOL How refreshing it was to read that.

Their new jumping pass is a SBS 3 flip / 2 toe / 2 loop

And they also will be upgrading their lifts.

It also explains why they were flown into Helsinki last minute.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/04/19/225243454

 

[DFO]

[QUOTE="Ainsley Peterson also paired with Josh Levitt ( although I believe that is over already).[/QUOTE]

Yes. At the recent US National, Ainsley Peterson won silver in Novice Pairs with Kristofer Ogren. So Josh Levitt is already a long gone story...