The Dance Hall, Part 4: To Helsinki & Back -- Seeking Rhumba Magic ...

[aftershocks]

if someone did not open the thread with such petulant tone/behavior (as someone described scott's past behavior), then of course, there will be no re-interpreting and misinterpreting, right? nor do you even have to back pedal by saying "oh i don't include all v/m fans" when it was not obvious in your first post

Jeesh! Talk about petulant, in need of censorship, and overly self-righteous. V/M uber-patrol gone mad!

My opening post stands as is. And you are definitely included among the V/M crazies...

 

[cocotaffy]

Let's move on because apparently P/C and V/M have already

 

[zilam98]

Jeesh! Talk about petulant, in need of censorship, and overly self-righteous. V/M uber-patrol gone mad!

labelling gone mad

 

[zilam98]

Jeesh! Talk about petulant, in need of censorship, and overly self-righteous. V/M uber-patrol gone mad!

My opening post stands as is. And you are definitely included among the V/M crazies...

typical defense of some p/c fans--name calling

hey, i said some just to make it clear

notice i preferred NOT to call you uber or crazie?

 

[aftershocks]

^^

Let's move on because apparently P/C and V/M have already

Of course they have. All skaters are in those trenches together, and they understand what they are up against in this sport, unlike many OTT fans. Some things are hard to take in the heat of the moment, but why go crazy and stay crazy? It's not worth all the negative energy.

That still don't make me change my observations, nor my opening rant.

Like I said earlier, it's always best to look at how the skaters take it after the initial shocks that often come from the judging panel. Breathe in, breathe out. If they want to continue to battle for their Olympic dreams, skaters find the equilibrium, and the ability to raise their level (competitively and in terms of sportsmanship) and soldier on toward a new season. And a very important one coming up too.

No skaters will get anywhere holding on to negativity, no matter how they really feel about the judges' decisions. Skaters always have to look to themselves and find a way to move forward. If skaters act out on their emotions in the heat of the moment, they will look back and regret it. Fans, not so much. Ranting can be palate-cleansing, especially against the cluelessness of TPTB running/ruining figure skating.

 

[princeton123]

Lol @aftershocks. Only you could start a "neutral" thread with such a combative first post, attacking one skater in particular and all of their fans, and then pretend that those fans are taking things too seriously and being crazy, and that everyone else is trafficking in negativity, not you.

 

[zilam98]

^^ e



Of course they have. All skaters are in those trenches together, and they understand what they are up against in this sport, unlike many OTT fans. Some things are hard to take in the heat of the moment, but why go crazy and stay crazy? It's not worth all the negative energy.

That still don't make me change my observations, nor my opening rant.

Like I said earlier, it's always best to look at how the skaters take it after the initial shocks that often come from the judging panel. Breathe in, breathe out. If they want to continue to battle for their Olympic dreams, skaters find the equilibrium, and the ability to raise their level (competitively and in terms of sportsmanship) and soldier on toward a new season. And a very important one coming up too.

No skaters will get anywhere holding on to negativity, no matter how they really feel about the judges' decisions. Skaters always have to look to themselves and find a way to move forward. If skaters act out on their emotions in the heat of the moment, they will look back and regret it. Fans, not so much. Ranting can be palate-cleansing, especially against the cluelessness of TPTB running/ruining figure skating.

"it's always best to look at how the skaters take it after the initial shocks that often come from the judging panel. Breathe in, breathe out
then why didn't you do that before doing the opening rant?

yup, only you or other p/c fans are allowed to post something like your opening rant, expect other fans to just accept it without calling you out on it, and decide to call v/m fans uber/crazy when they do the same thing. and apparently, since only v/m fans are OTT, they don't understand what the skaters are up against in this sport.

 

[zilam98]

Lol @aftershocks. Only you could start a "neutral" thread with such a combative first post, attacking one skater in particular and all of their fans, and then pretend that those fans are taking things too seriously and being crazy, and that everyone else is trafficking in negativity, not you.

haha! right? and then backpedalling by saying "oh i don't include all v/m fans." then ranting that they are being misunderstood. oh, was it obvious in the opening post that not all v/m fans were included? oh v/m fans have to be really good at mind reading too

 

[zilam98]

and what's funny now is that p/c fans are suddenly talking technicalities and rules in rule books to attack scott's stumble, and NOT a single v/m fan attacked them or name-called them for doing so in this thread, but when v/m fans do so to clarify technical differences in between teams and their performances, they're being called "crazy", or "uber" or "hypersensitive".

 

[aftershocks]

Both V/M and P/C have clearly articulated the value of the other team.

As if V/M and D/W never got along or 'articulated' each others' value. It was never D/W complaining or getting bent out of shape when they didn't win. V/M and D/W came up the ranks together, learning and pushing each other. They were always fairly neck 'n neck with their talent and competitive fire.

The difference in Montreal is chiefly that P/C are younger and still have a long career ahead of them and much more to learn. Also, M-F & Patch have had an ongoing mentoring relationship with fellow Canadians, V/M, and M-F/Patch are honoring their promise to help with V/M's comeback. The dynamics are such that the Montreal camp are taking it all in stride as best they can, no matter the shifting pecking order. Since champions all want to win, I'm quite sure the experience is not an easy one, no matter how relatively growth-inducing it may be, nor how often friendly sentiments are expressed.

Once upon a time, Canton too was considered a model of excellence and camaraderie with top athletes pushing other top athletes, right up until after 2010 Olympics when fissures began to develop between the coaches, and Scott became bent out of shape on some notable occasions. Even Scott himself has acknowledged that fact in V/M's post-comeback announcement interview with Rod Black.

 

[aftershocks]

Lol @aftershocks. Only you could start a "neutral" thread with such a combative first post, attacking one skater in particular and all of their fans, and then pretend that those fans are taking things too seriously and being crazy, and that everyone else is trafficking in negativity, not you.

Well @princeton123, you have something else to say now, besides "shut up!" eh?

I said that I have been fairly neutral this season in how I have viewed the P/C vs V/M rivalry right up until the FD scoring at Worlds. I haven't posted a whole bunch about the rivalry this season, except for discussing their programs individually and I've always given credit where credit is due. However, who said that this thread is "neutral"? I've never seen a 'neutral' ice dance thread. There's very few outcomes that are 'neutral' when it comes to figure skating.

I think you guys are the ones now protesting too much because of your uber-sensitivities and proclivities toward V/M self-righteous protectiveness, and uber-patrolling.

In any case, my opening post was not just about V/M and P/C, but carry on with your relentless backlash venom. In regard to perpetuating negative energy, OTT V/M fans wrote the book.

 

[zilam98]

Well @princeton123, you have something else to say now, besides "shut up!" eh?

I said that I have been fairly neutral this season in how I have viewed the P/C vs V/M rivalry right up until the FD scoring at Worlds. I haven't posted a whole bunch about the rivalry this season, except for discussing their programs individually and I've always given credit where credit is due. However, who said that this thread is "neutral"? I've never seen a 'neutral' ice dance thread. There's very few outcomes that are 'neutral' when it comes to figure skating.

I think you guys are the ones now protesting too much because of your uber-sensitivities and proclivities toward V/M self-righteous protectiveness, and uber-patrolling.

In any case, my opening post was not just about V/M and P/C, but carry on with your relentless backlash venom. In regard to perpetuating negative energy, OTT V/M fans wrote the book.

aha! ask @Dobre that yourself. you didn't begin this series of threads, did you?

let's just re-name this thread as P/C part 2.0, in addition to the existing thread series for p/c. apparently, only threads about p/c are allowed.

i love it when SOME p/c fans go overboard with their name-calling of v/m fans. sooooo much fun when someone gets irritated to the point that they lose reason and just call people names.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ @Dobre is a lover of ice dance as well as a thoughtful and insightful poster. What has that got to do with your screeching?

then why didn't you do that before doing the opening rant?

aha! ask @Dobre that yourself. you didn't begin this series of threads, did you?

let's just re-name this thread as P/C part 2.0, in addition to the existing thread series for p/c. apparently, only threads about p/c are allowed.

Wowza! V/M righteous indignation in full-on display, along with gleeful tarring and feathering of anyone who dares to voice disagreement of an outcome or any perceived less than fawning critiques of V/M. Boy you guys will defend this Helsinki result till hell freezes over and then some. Like I said, I stand by my opening post.

But yep, go right ahead and carry on with your relentless ire. It's fascinating in all it's time-wasting, chakra-busting intensity, pettiness and OTT exaggerations.

 

[zilam98]

^^ @Dobre is a lover of ice dance as well as a thoughtful and insightful poster. What has that got to do with your screeching?







Wowza! V/M righteous indignation in full-on display, along with gleeful tarring and feathering of anyone who dares to voice disagreement of an outcome or any perceived less than fawning critiques. Boy you guys will defend this Helsinki result till hell freezes over and then some. Like I said, I stand by my opening post.

But yep, go right ahead and carry on with your relentless ire. It's fascinating in all it's chakra-busting intensity, pettiness and OTT exaggerations.

my reply earlier bears repeating: did you begin this series of dance hall threads? wasn't it @Dobre that did it? so then, ask @Dobre whether they intended for this kind of thread to be neutral or not--meaning discussing ALL ID teams and not just by ranting about, bashing and name calling one specific team and their fans. go ahead, ask @Dobre first before you post more drama

 

[aftershocks]

my reply earlier bears repeating: did you begin this series of dance hall threads? wasn't it @Dobre that did it? so then, ask @Dobre whether they intended for this kind of thread to be neutral or not--meaning discussing ALL ID teams and not just by ranting about, bashing and name calling one specific team and their fans. go ahead, ask @Dobre first before you post more drama

You are the one engaging in OTT drama here. And apparently once you get going, you never stop. Surely even V/M would run the other way when they see you coming!

 

[zilam98]

You are the one engaging in OTT drama here. And apparently once you get going, you never stop. Surely even V/M would run the other way when they see you coming!

obviously you haven't asked @Dobre yet. you probably wouldn't. you would just prefer to keep on going with your drama and name calling.

 

[aftershocks]

obviously you haven't asked @Dobre yet. you probably wouldn't. you would just prefer to keep on going with your drama and name calling.

 

[MarieM]

If you want to live in your V&M fandom, go back where you belong and stay out of here. Please.
That's the only fecking topic where we can discuss all dance teams as we wish. If you don't like it, get the hell out.

 

[zilam98]

If you want to live in your V&M fandom, go back where you belong and stay out of here. Please.
That's the only fecking topic where we can discuss all dance teams as we wish. If you don't like it, get the hell out.

who says it's about v/m fandom? one poster was just being called out for their petulant posts that don't belong here, and now it's about v/m fandom?

 

[MarieM]

Because if you really knew about this topic, you SHOULD know WE have to be petulant here. We ARE ALL petulant here. As I said, if you don't accept it, get out.

As if V/M and D/W never got along or 'articulated' each others' value. It was never D/W complaining or getting bent out of shape when they didn't win. V/M and D/W came up the ranks together, learning and pushing each other. They were always fairly neck 'n neck with their talent and competitive fire.

The difference in Montreal is chiefly that P/C are younger and still have a long career ahead of them and much more to learn. Also, M-F & Patch have had an ongoing mentoring relationship with fellow Canadians, V/M, and M-F/Patch are honoring their promise to help with V/M's comeback. The dynamics are such that the Montreal camp are taking it all in stride as best they can, no matter the shifting pecking order. Since champions all want to win, I'm quite sure the experience is not an easy one, no matter how relatively growth-inducing it may be, nor how often friendly sentiments are expressed.

Once upon a time, Canton too was considered a model of excellence and camaraderie with top athletes pushing other top athletes, right up until after 2010 Olympics when fissures began to develop between the coaches, and Scott became bent out of shape on some notable occasions. Even Scott himself has acknowledged that fact in V/M's post-comeback announcement interview with Rod Black.

I have absolutly no clues about what went sour with D&W//V&M, but IMO, it all had to do with the fact Marina clearly sabotaged one team for the other one.
And that's something she's done all along in her poaching career.

That's something Montreal won't do because they're trying to bring the best in every single one of their team. If you don't accept it, if you act like you "own" it, I bet the coach will react swiftly. IMO, whatever you do, it all comes down to how the coach do handle those rivalries.
Igor does handle that very well too IMO. Krylova&Camerlengo too. Most coach do handle that well.

The ones who don't are the skaters parents most of the time (and can we count in stupid federations officials there too ?)

It's not because G&G are young that they take it "best". They did learn a valuable lesson this season. Ask Gwendal how he now thinks anout the whole 2001 season.

 

[aftershocks]

It's not because G&G are young that they take it "best".

Nope, I don't think it's because P/C are young that they are taking it. Nor do I think P/C are taking anything 'better' than D/W or any other rival of V/M ever have. All I meant by saying that P/C are young is that they have more career ahead of them and thus they can keep their noses to the grindstone, learn, continue to work hard, and feel good about themselves and their chances to battle V/M in the full knowledge that the upcoming season is more than likely to be V/M's final competitive hurrah. And that doesn't mean that P/C need to roll over and die either. So they are taking it all in stride. And V/M are genuine in their desire to explore something new. It's just hopefully that the judging can try to live up to the challenges that the skaters never flinch from confronting.

The dynamics were different in Canton obviously, since D/W and V/M came up together in the same generation. And they reached the heights together and not much ever separated them competitively. V/M won OGM first, and D/W were not far behind in excellence. They were both hungry champions and it was so great for ice dance. It helped push the discipline forward that neither team conceded nor rolled over.

In regard to Marina, all you guys with the inside dish should get together and write a tell-all.

 

[MarieM]

You don't have to have inside dish to get how Marina works.
She's pretty obvious.

See, she got Nikita& his partner and it was her whole focus those past two years. She gave them great material, she politicked for them. She had to help mother Russia go back to ice dance gold. The shibs were nothing for her in that time. Nikita messed up big time so Marina gave up on them and had to throw them away.
So now, all she has left are the shibs. The shibs that she has ignored for some time (and who had the nerve to use Peter T. for choreography, and with success! How dare they?), are now her only dance team. She's sabotaging them because she doesn't get choreography for siblings. Copying P&C will not work for them. But will she let them use outside choreo again? And take the "limelight" out of HER and only her ?

She has now taken an interest in singles. Because hey, she has never won a gold in singles. So now, she'll become a single's coach, ice dance will be pushed in the background soon enough.

 

[EYGH]

First of all congrats to all the medalists and the others too.

I have not been as enthousiast about this World competition as last year's and it is not because P/C didn't win gold eventhough they are my favorites. There was just something off. Maybe the politiks behind the scene with the approaching OG that IMO troubled the skaters and added to the stress. I don't know.

Or maybe was it the bad camera work (I only had access to the russian videos for a long time). It is not acceptable that such an important event is not better filmed. At Europeans it was gorgeously shot. Or else it was because too many teams tried to do P/C kind of dances and it just doesn't work for everyone.

Congrats to V/M for their beautiful SD. It was perfect. It suited them totally. The style, the rythm, the choreo, the costume (thank God Tessa didn't change hers despite some negative comments) and the skating. Their FD on the other hand was very disappointing. I don't think they deserved the marks they got. It was boring, not that well skated and not really a style that suited them. Tessa's dress was horrible and the overall impression for me was not good. Something was definitely missing notwithdanding Scott's mistakes. Maybe this feeling was accented by the fact they skated right after P/C.

Because P/C owned the FD. They were brilliant and in another class. Bravo to them and to all the skaters.

 

[MarieM]

Tessa ? Horrible dress? Oh please. It was a bit subdued maybe, but that FD dress is gorgeous.
I am more amazed she didn't change costumes all that much this season. I love when she does

 

[Miloune]

Tessa ? Horrible dress? Oh please. It was a bit subdued maybe, but that FD dress is gorgeous.
I am more amazed she didn't change costumes all that much this season. I love when she does

Hmm I kinda agree with @EYGH here, I think VM costumes were meh.. I mean the design of her dress was beautiful but this pink wasn't. And I prefer not to talk about Scott's outfit haha...

 

[MarieM]

I liked that dress, it really did go with the music and intention

 

[Miloune]

I liked that dress, it really did go with the music and intention

To each their own I guess... .

 

[EYGH]

MarieM
The dress itself might be ok but not the colour and the impression didn't fit well with V/M for me. But I didn't like their FD's music either.
I'm not very happy with P/C's change of costume for the SD either. I loved Gaby's first dress for its quirky side and would have liked Guillaume to adapt his costume to match Gaby's better.

Over all after P/C it's G/P that I always appreciate no matter what they do because there is an originality, a personality, a creativity that I don't really find elsewhere. Both couples are always interesting.

I believe that this year P/C have taken the most risks with both their dances which both were the most challenging of the competition. They put themselves "in danger". They have improved and grown tremendously this season. Bravo to them.

Bravo to V/M too because their return to competition is courageous and they rose to the challenge.

And bravo to all the teams I like and who didn't get the credits they were hoping for (G/P S/S W/P) or who had a mishap (H/D).

Kudos to all skaters because it was a tough competition and everyone worked hard and deserve respect.

 

[marbri]

My god this thread is a disaster.

 

[barbarafan]

You don't have to have inside dish to get how Marina works.
She's pretty obvious.

See, she got Nikita& his partner and it was her whole focus those past two years. She gave them great material, she politicked for them. She had to help mother Russia go back to ice dance gold. The shibs were nothing for her in that time. Nikita messed up big time so Marina gave up on them and had to throw them away.
So now, all she has left are the shibs. The shibs that she has ignored for some time (and who had the nerve to use Peter T. for choreography, and with success! How dare they?), are now her only dance team. She's sabotaging them because she doesn't get choreography for siblings. Copying P&C will not work for them. But will she let them use outside choreo again? And take the "limelight" out of HER and only her ?

She has now taken an interest in singles. Because hey, she has never won a gold in singles. So now, she'll become a single's coach, ice dance will be pushed in the background soon enough.

Actually I do not believe Marina gave up on Nikita..all she cares about is results...not about the people . When Nikita hit his partner there were witnesses and I am sure it was one of them who called the police,,Marina would of just smoothed it over.. There were multiple tweets which were deleted shortly after incident. The rink was involved and it looks like a deal was struck..Everyone would forget about it as long as the team left.
So they went to another rink to practice for 2 wks and left for Russia..If it had just been them and Marina at the rink no one else would have ever known.