IAAF and Russian Athletics Anti-Doping Corruption Review

[Willin]

According to this article, there is an investigation into Russian athletes involving bribes and doping, but it involves the London summer games. The bribes in this case weren't to alter results, but instead were paid to officials so that they could get away with doping. The investigation is part of an investigation into the IAAF's corruption. The IAAF is the governing body of athletics (Track & Field), so I don't think their corruption would spread to the winter Olympics, as they have no stake in the events there.

This article from ESPN seems to say the same thing, although it adds in one sentence about the Sochi games. Apparently a Russian lab in Moscow was responsible for doping testing for Sochi, which is where the winter Olympics come into the picture.


It will be interesting to see what comes of this. I don't think there's any risk of an investigation into buying results in judged sports, since this is primarily about doping and the bribes were to hide doping (NOT buy results from any source I've read). On the other hand, if any figure skaters were found to be doping, it could affect the results that way.

 

[Xela M]

Yeah because the US winning 50 medals in swimming was all off course doping-free Give me a break. All nations dope, some just have better doping labs.

 

[Sylvia]

Apparently a Russian lab in Moscow was responsible for doping testing for Sochi, which is where the winter Olympics come into the picture.

The sentence in the Associated Press' article reads: "The Moscow lab oversaw testing for the 2014 Sochi Olympics and is scheduled to lead the anti-doping program for FIFA when Russia hosts the 2018 World Cup."

Associated Press' "Things to know about doping in Russia" article (Nov. 6, 2015): http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e2d7ae30402b48a2a6c80028dd3049d9/things-know-about-doping-russia

The most notorious location for Russian doping is in the little known central city of Saransk, home to the country's race-walking team.

Russian walkers have been dominant in the Olympics and world championships. There have been at least 33 doping cases involving Russian walkers in recent years, with 26 of them having served bans.

Russia is also facing IAAF investigations into claims Russian officials manipulated suspensions for some of its walkers to protect their Olympic results and that some walkers ignored their bans and continued to compete.

Saransk's future is uncertain after longtime head coach Viktor Chegin, who trained many of the banned athletes, resigned in July.

(ETA above excerpt after seeing TAHbKA's post below.)

AP Interview: Coe says IAAF faces 'dark days' amid bribery claims; discounts Russia suspension (Nov. 8): http://www.usnews.com/news/sports/a...ces-long-way-back-to-trust-amid-doping-crisis

This topic probably is more suited for the "Other Sports" forum.

 

[TAHbKA]

If I recall correctly there is a huge scandal in the race walking team - pretty much everyone were disqualified for using the forbidden substances and I can't recall where the sports centre which prepares the athletes was closed or not, but there were talks about it.
Beats me why would it be related to figure skating though

 

[lala]

Yeah because the US winning 50 medals in swimming was all off course doping-free Give me a break. All nations dope, some just have better doping labs.

Yes, and US has the best doping labs..... Many-many medals on swimming and athletics competitions. And we all know about the scandal in athletics..this thread is really annoying and biased.

 

[babayaga]

Well, word "politics" is used all the time on figure skating discussion boards to explain the results, but I never understood what exactly it is supposed to mean. Are people actually talking about corruption that is accepted on every level of the sport including most of the fans, or what is it? I understand that this report is mostly on doping and involves other sports, but I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised to find out that some of the results were outright bought, or a result of a behind-the-doors agreement, or anything else. I really would like to start to understand what "politics" truly means in figure skating.

 

[Sabrine Tornston]

If it's anything, it's libelous, not slanderous . I don't think it's either of those things, but it depends on the country and how they feel about internet postings, whether they are plaintiff-friendly, and how they feel about fair game discussions about public figures, among other things.

Slander refers to a statement in a transient form. Libel refers to a statement in written form. While the title of the thread was initially communicated in a written form, it was presented through a type of communication medium that can be easily altered. As opposed to something written in a print media that can not be altered once published. Therefore, the title could be considered either slanderous or libelous. And slanderous it was, as it put 'something out there' with intention to damage a person's reputation.

 

[VGThuy]

Slander refers to a statement in a transient form. Libel refers to a statement in written form. While the title of the thread was initially communicated in a written form, it was presented through a type of communication medium that can be easily altered. As opposed to something written in a print media that can not be altered once published. Therefore, the title could be considered either slanderous or libelous. And slanderous it was, as it put 'something out there' with intention to damage a person's reputation.

Interesting. I learned the difference was strictly whether the alleged defaming statements were written or orally communicated. Libel is written form, and it does not matter whether it is published or not. I've seen the word "libel" explicitly used in examples including letters, published material, public comments on websites, blog posts, comments to blog posts, and internet chat rooms when it comes to people bringing suit. I would think a thread title would fall under one or more of the above categories.

As to whether the original thread title was "slanderous" or "libelous", I think that's debatable.

 

[giselle23]

When did you stop beating your wife?

On one hand I find the title utterly ridiculous and stupid... and on the other hand I think Plushenko may have doped before and were he to skate in 2018 there is very little chance it would be clean. I've been meaning to say this ever since he started making rather confident remarks about skating in 2018 and I know I'm not the only one to think this because Dave Lease before Skate America made a remark about it.

If such as remark was actually made (cite, please), it almost certainly was made in jest. And the idea that Plushenko was doped is ridiculous.

 

[Vagabond]

Is it possible to fix alpine and biathlon events?

I was thinking of alpine skiing, which is certainly not subjective. And as Lara noted, while biathlon can be affected by external factors, it's not subjectively scored.

It depends on what you mean by "fix." Both Alpine skiing and the biathlon have been affected by doping.

Alain Baxter was disqualified from third in the Men's Slalom at the 2002 Winter Olympics.

Six Austrian Nordic skiiers (some cross-country skiers, other biathletes) were banned from life after being involved in doping at the 2006 Winter Olympics.

There appear to be other was to "fix" these events, such by manipulating the timing. There were accusations that this happened in qualifying events, enabling Vanessa Mae to meet the standard for the 2014 Winter Olympics, but she was eventually cleared of the charges.

 

[Xela M]

Oh, and at the 2012 Olympics there was a 16-year-old girl (Chinese I believe) who actually swam quicker than the men's Olympic champion in the same event. All doping-free of course.

 

[Coquelicot14]

It is not wise to make such claims until actual evidence is presented. In Sotnikova's case, or any other case. It is libel, defamation, etc. until we know otherwise. Posting slanderous claims about a specific person or event is a slippery slope, poths. The title of your thread is indeed slanderous.

Thank you for posting this!
Respect.

 

[allezfred]

Alain Baxter was disqualified from third in the Men's Slalom at the 2002 Winter Olympics.

Six Austrian Nordic skiiers (some cross-country skiers, other biathletes) were banned from life after being involved in doping at the 2006 Winter Olympics.

These two examples only highlight the lack of nuance on the whole issue of doping. Huge difference between the first and the second (Baxter used a Vicks inhaler that he purchased in the US that contained a banned substance. The same product in the UK does not contained the same banned substance).

 

[aftershocks]

Figure skating has more problems with political corruption and wonky scoring IMHO. The only effect doping could possibly have is on aiding in recovery from injury perhaps. Figure skating is too complicated and difficult a sport and requires rhythm, precision and great ability to master technique rather than just being coordinated and physically strong with the necessary endurance. Similar to baseball, drugs might help with power, endurance and healing from injury, but you've got to have the skills and the talent to hit home runs/ master and successfully land difficult jumps while performing to music.

I'd love to know what the original title was for this thread.

 

[Vagabond]

I'd love to know what the original title was for this thread.

"When Did You Stop Fixing Your Sport?"

 

[Sabrine Tornston]

Interesting. I learned the difference was strictly whether the alleged defaming statements were written or orally communicated. Libel is written form, and it does not matter whether it is published or not. I've seen the word "libel" explicitly used in examples including letters, published material, public comments on websites, blog posts, comments to blog posts, and internet chat rooms when it comes to people bringing suit. I would think a thread title would fall under one or more of the above categories.

As to whether the original thread title was "slanderous" or "libelous", I think that's debatable.

Technically the title of the thread was (possible) libel. Message board posts, blog posts, etc. written with intent to defame are considered libel. However, the title has already been changed. But a slanderous statement (if you consider it such) is out there in the 'internet universe'... As far as whether the thread title would fall under either category, I think the intent to defame was obvious. 'Is it possible xyz gold was bought?" would be just click-bait. Not very nice click-bait, but nothing too suspect. But "So xyz gold WAS paid for?" is a statement not a question. Made with clear intent to injure a person's reputation. Legal chit-chat aside, that was a real crappy thing to say. But then again, it IS internet. People are oh so brave spewing all kinds of stuff, while hiding behind their computers.

 

[Vagabond]

"So xyz gold WAS what paid for?" is a statement not a question. Made with clear intent to injure a person's reputation.

And what person would that be? Not the gold medalist, but possibly whoever was involved in the transaction. That might include every judge, probably everyone on the technical panel, possibly the referee, and whoever might have in making the payment. Maybe others as well.

I don't know about other countries, but in the U.S., at least, there are limits to which defaming an entire group of people, as opposed to a specific individual is actionable.

 

[Coquelicot14]

It is not often I am disgusted by a fan's behavior, I usually take it with a grain of salt, (I keep thinking of that fan guy from Blades of Glory), but that title really pushed the boundaries. I think an apology is in order...

 

[Jammers]

Russian girls increase in PCS in 2013-14 season was unprecendented.

Oh, and at the 2012 Olympics there was a 16-year-old girl (Chinese I believe) who actually swam quicker than the men's Olympic champion in the same event. All doping-free of course.

China replaced East Germany as the biggest doping country in the world especially in swimming. All you have to do is look at Chinese female swimmers in the 1990's and see how they improved. You would have to be naive to believe it was all kosher. And of course the age thing with the female Chinese gymnastic team is always a question mark of just how they actually are.

 

[Coquelicot14]

Russian girls increase in PCS in 2013-14 season was unprecendented.

This coincides perfectly with them starting to mature and getting better choreography and programs. This is one crop of youngsters growing older. They are very close in age. Remember, before Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya etc woman's skating was in abysmal state, Leonova came up once in a while, but all others were not consistent, lacking jumps, etc. Now if suddenly Petushkova got great PCS, that would be suspect, but this is a different generation.

 

[overedge]

The very few doping skandals in skating IIRC have involved athletes taking medication for other things (like colds) that included banned substances; athletes refusing to take a test; and male athletes taking Rogaine or something similar for their hair, and getting caught because that type of drug can be used to mask the presence of other, performance-enhancing drugs.

There wouldn't be much advantage to doping in skating. Having strong but bulky muscles would hurt skaters' ability to do a lot of things. And since skating programs are under five minutes long, skaters need a different kind of stamina than, say, someone who is going to cross-country ski for a couple of hours.

So I would be very surprised if this report points to corruption as in widespread concealed doping in skating. Whether it's going to touch on other kinds of corruption is another question.

 

[Sabrine Tornston]

And what person would that be? Not the gold medalist, but possibly whoever was involved in the transaction. That might include every judge, probably everyone on the technical panel, possibly the referee, and whoever might have in making the payment. Maybe others as well.

I don't know about other countries, but in the U.S., at least, there are limits to which defaming an entire group of people, as opposed to a specific individual is actionable.

Whoever was involved in a transaction, but also the gold medalist. The allegation is that her gold medal was 'bought'. Meaning her greatest professional accomplishment was obtained fraudulently. It damages her reputation. Then there is a question of legitimacy of the rewards she had received (endorsement contracts, monetary rewards, etc.). Of course Russian sponsors aren't going to sue Adelina, nor will the government demand its rewards back. But maybe Adelina can sue the poster for defamation .

 

[Sabrine Tornston]

It is not often I am disgusted by a fan's behavior, I usually take it with a grain of salt, (I keep thinking of that fan guy from Blades of Glory), but that title really pushed the boundaries. I think an apology is in order...

Hell will freeze over before this particular poster will apologize. Some people get kicks out of kicking others.

 

[Vagabond]

Whoever was involved in a transaction, but also the gold medalist. The allegation is that her gold medal was 'bought'. Meaning her greatest professional accomplishment was obtained fraudulently. It damages her reputation. Then there is a question of legitimacy of the rewards she had received (endorsement contracts, monetary rewards, etc.). Of course Russian sponsors aren't going to sue Adelina, nor will the government demand its rewards back. But maybe Adelina can sue the poster for defamation .

She can always sue, but can she win? No.

Unless she is falsely alleged to have participated in "buying" the medal, casting aspersions on the validity of her win is a matter of opinion, another way of saying she didn't deserve it. That's not defamation.

And if you don't like reading that various skaters didn't deserve their medals, you have come to the wrong website.

 

[Sabrine Tornston]

She can always sue, but can she win? No.

Unless she is falsely alleged to have participated in "buying" the medal, casting aspersions on the validity of her win is a matter of opinion, another way of saying she didn't deserve it. That's not defamation.

And if you don't like reading that various skaters didn't deserve their medals, you have come to the wrong website.

Apples and oranges. It doesn't have to be alleged that she actively participated in 'buying' the medal. Fraudulent transaction would be subject to criminal investigation. If it were alleged she participated in buying the medal, the damage would be much more severe. It would be a false claim of Sotnikova being a party to a criminal transaction. Stating that her medal WAS bought causes reputational damage. This was not stated as an opinion (heck, it is MY opinion Sotnikova did not deserve her gold medal), it was a claim made in association with a corruption investigation. A baseless claim, since there are no facts to support it at the moment.

 

[Jammers]

Yeah because the US winning 50 medals in swimming was all off course doping-free Give me a break. All nations dope, some just have better doping labs.

Gimme a break. The US has been a dominate swimming country since the days of Johnny Weissmuller back in the 1920's. And at least our female swimmers never looked like men like the East German female swimmers did. It's amazing how obvious it was to anyone with a brain that they were doping but no one did anything about it for years.
Individual athletes cheat in the US but the old Soviet Union and East German's were state run from the very top.

 

[Prancer]

The board owner lives in the UK. The thread starter lives in Ireland. The athlete in question lives in Russia. And some of the lawyers in this thread (and not all of those weighing in on the legal issues here are lawyers) come from different countries, too.

So it seems to me that y'all are arguing at cross purposes, given that you are using different definitions of defamation, libel and slander, and that your definitions may or may not apply to the specific situation at hand.

I'm not sure why there is such an uproar over this anyway. Nothing was said that hasn't been said here before, many times over by many people. The association with the report might make it seem worse, but the report will be released and we will all be able to see for ourselves what if anything it has to say about skating. poths will be either right or wrong and no amount of squabbling over it today will make a bit of difference.

 

[poths]

It is not often I am disgusted by a fan's behavior, I usually take it with a grain of salt, (I keep thinking of that fan guy from Blades of Glory), but that title really pushed the boundaries. I think an apology is in order...

The sport is utterly corrupt, and whilst I haven't followed since Sochi, I might consider it, should this innate corruption, which has continued in spite of the SLC debacle (the epitome of corruption in Olympic sport ), be brought to light. To be met with 'fans' who are so oblivious to the state of the sport and disgusted by anyone who highlights the bloody obvious, is utterly frustrating. Year upon year, skaters are favoured and "chosen" deals are made and results are fixed. As long as this continues, it's not a sport.

Also, I have to laugh at anyone who can be so ignorant as to think there's no PEDS in skating,

Eagerly looking forward to tomorrows report, yes it is predominantly in relation to drug abuse and corruption in T&F but the repercussions for other sports going forward, including skating, are inevitable.

As to the posters who have jumped on an opportunity to exercise their ability to google slander and libel, time well spent.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

Oh, and at the 2012 Olympics there was a 16-year-old girl (Chinese I believe) who actually swam quicker than the men's Olympic champion in the same event. All doping-free of course.

Ye Shiwen's time wasn't faster than Ryan Lochte's winning in fact 33 of the 37 male swimmers had time faster than her. Her freestyle leg in the 400 m Individual medley was marginally slower than Lochte's (58.68 to 58.65). In fact, Lochte was slow compared to many other finalists, look at time times from other finalists on the freestyle leg like Phelps (58.32), Hagishino (58.20), Horihata (58.58), Fraser-Homes(58.13). It was the US coach John Leonard who claimed Ye Shiwen had doped because she swam a different pace to others, she came back very strong on the freestyle leg.

Gimme a break. The US has been a dominate swimming country since the days of Johnny Weissmuller back in the 1920's. And at least our female swimmers never looked like men like the East German female swimmers did. It's amazing how obvious it was to anyone with a brain that they were doping but no one did anything about it for years.
Individual athletes cheat in the US but the old Soviet Union and East German's were state run from the very top.

US had dominated Athletics as well until the THG scandal so it does not prove they didn't do. In fact, almost the whole US sprinting team from 2000 failed the dope. It is hard to believe USAF not knowing anything about this. The likes of Carl Lewis failed drug test several times

Carl Lewis has broken his silence on allegations that he was the beneficiary of a drugs cover-up, admitting he had tested positive for banned substances but claiming he was just one of "hundreds" of American athletes who were allowed to escape bans.

"There were hundreds of people getting off," he said. "Everyone was treated the same."

Lewis: 'Who cares I failed drug test?'

 

[aftershocks]

I don't see where anyone said PEDs don't exist in figure skating, just that any uses and benefits are less likely than political corruption and questionable judging to affect outcomes. Plus @overedge spoke of some of the instances of figure skaters found to have PEDs in their system, which seem unlikely or were ruled not to have been associated with any intent to cheat.