IAAF and Russian Athletics Anti-Doping Corruption Review

[caseyedwards]

Yep its true soon sotnikova plushenko v/t b/s I/k s/k will all soon have to give back their sochi medals.

 

[WildRose]

When was the last time Brennan spoke about figure skating? It seems like she's moved on from the sport.

I suspect many in the media decided a long time ago that figure skating is fixed.

 

[Willin]

In the U.S., PBS News Hour had a story on this tonight that featured an interview with Christine Brennan. Of all U.S. journalists, I would expect Brennan to seize on any opportunity to talk about figure skating if there was any chance of a connection to scandal. But as far as I heard, she never mentioned figure skating ... even though she DID bring up Sochi Olympics toward the end of the interview. The focus was almost entirely on track and field. I think the attempt to link this scandal to figure skating in any way is a huge overreach.

I think the thing with mentioning figure skating is that we on this forum made this about figure skating. This is NOT a problem with skating unless skaters doped (which I will not state an opinion on, because I have no idea).

The focus was almost entirely on track and field because this IS a problem with Track and Field. While other sports are being brought into the fray because of speculation, this investigation was ENTIRELY about track & field (athletics). Sochi is being brought into this because of the Moscow lab involved in Sochi being implicated in the investigation, but that has nothing to do with the current report. If Sochi is looked into later, then skating may be a part of this. For now it's not, so there's no reason to talk about it.

 

[Garden Kitty]

Has there ever been a performance-enhancing drug that has shown to be effective for figure skating? I can't argue that a fix hasn't been in at some competitions...the toe-tapping was a pretty good indicator of that...but that seems rather different to me than doping.

I'm not making any suggestions or hints about any athlete, but I suspect clenbuterol would help a pair skater develop "lean muscle" that could provide strength without bulk. Blood doping could help with stamina and endurance for athletes who lose energy in the last half of the program. Some PED's help with muscle recovery and could help with training or recovery times while others could provide an energy boost. However, while an EPO patch can be relatively cheap, blood doping and other sophisticated programs tend to be expensive, and most skaters wouldn't have the resources to have a useful program.

I don't think any of these means could guarantee a victory for a skater as effectively as dishonest officials, but I could see that they'd provide an advantage.

 

[Buzz]

A Russian government spokesman says the charges appear to be unfounded. I guess their strategy is to deny, deny, deny, instead of cleaning up their act.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/10/vladimir-putin-russia-doping-iaaf-wada

 

[Sylvia]

Official statement from the Russian Sports Ministry, translated into English: http://rbth.com/news/2015/11/10/sta...nistry-receives-wada-commisions-report_538813

Russian athletes' doping samples to be tested temporarily at foreign organizations: http://rbth.com/news/2015/11/10/rus...d-temporarily-at-foreign-organizations_539079

ETA link to WADA's Nov. 10th statement: WADA Acts Immediately to Suspend Accreditation of Moscow Laboratory

 

[Coquelicot14]

https://www.rt.com/news/321459-ioc-disciplinary-action-russia/
"No reason to doubt Sochi tests." -IOC.
Enough said.

 

[Willin]

^^
I'm skeptical about that IOC statement for now for two reasons:
1. The IOC has good reason to defend the Sochi drug testing. If Sochi's drug testing was bad, it would make them look very bad. They don't want to admit they made a bad decision or misplaced their trust. That would make them easier to doubt and face more criticism. When the IOC is already under increased scrutiny due to the FIFA and IAAF investigations, the last thing they need is to admit to a scandal happening under their watch.
2. RT (the source you link to) is a Russian state-sponsored news source that is controlled by the Russian government. Because of this, their reports are as good as the Russian government's. The Russian government has reason to deny their involvement, so RT has reason to protect the Russian government.

It's hardly "enough said."

 

[Coquelicot14]

Actually it is. The IOC will not issue such a statement unless there was no proof for the any Sochi issues. As you've mentioned earlier, they are concerned about their reputation, getting caught in a lie would be stupid and a scandal. So obviously know what they are talking about.

As for RT, are you accusing them of misquoting IOC? Because that is not the case. As for this news organization's political affiliation, that has nothing to do with anything. Are you going to tell me that CNN is not heavily pro-democrat and Fox is not conservative republican? Do they therefore lie? Facts are facts. There are no completely neutral news sources. I recommend reading several to get the full picture.
Another thing, how come no one wonders about the motivation behind the Wada report? Can we say with absolute certainty that there is no agenda behind it.
It seems to me that some people are acting like on a witch hunt, just ready to bury people just because of a report. I say let's see a full investigation first! But maybe you have your own agenda...

 

[Sylvia]

Here's the IOC statement that was issued today: IOC Executive Board takes action following WADA Independent Commission - provisionally suspends Mr. Lamine Diack
Excerpt re. the lab that was used for the Sochi Olympics:

The IOC studied the functioning of the WADA accredited laboratory in Sochi during the Olympic Winter Games 2014 following the doubts expressed during the Independent Commission’s press conference. In this context the IOC relies on the then report of the WADA independent observer group which makes no mention of any such irregularity. Nor was any such irregularity reported by the international experts involved, nor found by the IOC itself. Therefore, the IOC has no reason to question the credibility of the results of the anti-doping tests carried out at the Olympic Winter Games 2014. However, the IOC retaining all the doping samples for ten years, will retest samples in an appropriate way should substantial doubts arise. In any case, the IOC may retest samples once new scientific techniques become available.

 

[VGThuy]

And in the converse people want there to be no wrongdoing whatsoever for whatever reason so they are quick to dismiss any allegation. Either way peoples' agendas whether they want wrongdoing to be found or not seems to be clouding a lot of people's judgments here resulting in then making conclusory declarative statements as if this was some sort of contest. It would be interesting to observe if it wasn't so common.

 

[Sylvia]

AFP: Head of Russia’s anti-doping agency resigns [late Tuesday]
Excerpt:

“The acting director of the Moscow anti-doping laboratory Grigory Rodchenkov announced his resignation,” an aide to Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.

“The minister accepted his resignation and one of the specialists at the laboratory was appointed in his place, Maria Dikunets,” Natalya Zhelanova said, adding that “the laboratory’s accreditation is temporarily halted”.

Rodchenkov had called members of WADA “idiots” on Monday: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/athletics/article4609695.ece

ETA links to 2 more articles on Tuesday:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/oth...boratory-grigory-rodchenkov-resigns-1.2424421

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/10/russia-iaaf-facing-suspension-wada-doping-report

 

[Seerek]

If indeed Savinova and Poistogova are stripped of their medals, American 800m runner Alysia Montano (who came back to competition in 2015 after giving birth), will have multiple World Championship Outdoor medals, plus an Olympic bronze from London

Years Later, Bittersweet Victory For Alysia Montano

 

[twinsissv]

I don't believe it! Putin has admitted that Russia has some 'problems'. And former members of the KGB were in the labs while the tests were being completed? What? Sounds like an old b-movie from the seventies. Yeah... now I'm wondering about those 33 Russian gold medals at the Sochi Winter Olympics also. Why did it take so long?

 

[DimaToe]

So does anyone think that this could build to a Russian boycott of Rio? The games are about 9 months away.

 

[BigB08822]

I could see Russia boycotting just to try and avoid actually being found guilty of anything in any official capacity. They would cut off their nose to spite their face, for sure.

 

[Sylvia]

AFP: Russian president Vladimir Putin orders action over WADA commission's explosive doping claims

"We must do everything in Russia to rid ourselves of this problem," Putin said in footage shown on Russian television of the meeting - ironically called to discuss the country's preparations for Rio 2016.

"We must carry out our own internal inquiry," he said, telling sports officials to show "the most open and professional cooperation with international anti-doping authorities".

"This problem does not exist only in Russia, but if our foreign colleagues have questions, we must answer them," he said.

Wall Street Journal: Putin Orders Internal Investigation Into WADA Doping Charges;
Russian president promised to hold the guilty accountable, but defended the innocent

The Russian leader said that those guilty should be held individually responsible, and that innocent people shouldn’t pay for the transgressions of others—an implicit pushback against the WADA commission’s suggestion that the entire Russian track and field team be banned from competing at the 2016 Olympics.
...
Apart from the doping allegations, the Russian president rebuked his country’s teams for their poor performance heading into the Olympics next year.

The country’s swimming, shooting, rowing, badminton, table tennis, triathlon and road cycling teams were singled out by the Russian president for showing weaknesses.

“I ask my colleagues to explain what has been done to change the current situation and what the picture looks like with preparation of athletes in summer sports,” the Russian president said at the meeting, suggesting that there was still time to make corrections in the run-up to the Games.

ETA:

Owen Gibson of The Guardian: A truly independent WADA should have the power to sanction sports and nations

The report itself details major concerns with how WADA, funded 50-50 by the International Olympic Committee and national governments, operates. Though carefully worded, they collectively form something of an indictment not so much of the organisation or the people within it but of the manner in which its funders have clipped its wings.

... It [WADA] “continues to face a recalcitrant attitude on the part of many stakeholders that it is merely a service provider and not a regulator” and “needs to continue its educational role, but also to insist on compliance by all signatories”.

In other words it has morphed into a timid beast, tied up in knots by its constitution and funding. As such, it is unable to perform properly the job for which it was created. Perhaps the biggest worry is that it took a fearless investigative journalist, aided by courageous whistleblowers, to uncover this deep‑rooted scandal in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

I don't believe it! Putin has admitted that Russia has some 'problems'. And former members of the KGB were in the labs while the tests were being completed? What? Sounds like an old b-movie from the seventies. Yeah... now I'm wondering about those 33 Russian gold medals at the Sochi Winter Olympics also. Why did it take so long?

There was no 33 gold medals from Sochi, it was 13 gold medals...

1) 3 gold medals were from FS
2) 3 short track, thanks to Victor Ahn
3) 2 from Snowboarding ... Thanks to Vic Wild
4) Bobsleigh 2 gold medals and 1 skeleton ... these sports rarely see doping, it is possible. Russian gold can be credited to track awareness. They took advantage of going down the track multiple times. Also, this is very usual for host to do well in these sports.

5) that leaves a gold each in cross-country and biathlon each. Both have had high doping and Russians have failed dope test. The issue is Russians were really struggling in these sports. It was only on the last few days of these events they managed to get waxing of the skis correct.

The Russian performance at Sochi was more opportunistic than large doping plan.

 

[millyskate]

So does anyone think that this could build to a Russian boycott of Rio? The games are about 9 months away.

I would be very surprised - I have a sense that boycotts are a thing of the past. Too much $$ involved.

 

[twinsissv]

There was no 33 gold medals from Sochi, it was 13 gold medals...

1) 3 gold medals were from FS
2) 3 short track, thanks to Victor Ahn
3) 2 from Snowboarding ... Thanks to Vic Wild
4) Bobsleigh 2 gold medals and 1 skeleton ... these sports rarely see doping, it is possible. Russian gold can be credited to track awareness. They took advantage of going down the track multiple times. Also, this is very usual for host to do well in these sports.

5) that leaves a gold each in cross-country and biathlon each. Both have had high doping and Russians have failed dope test. The issue is Russians were really struggling in these sports. It was only on the last few days of these events they managed to get waxing of the skis correct.

The Russian performance at Sochi was more opportunistic than large doping plan.

Sorry! Sorry! Sorry! That's what I get for listening to CNN!

 

[Sylvia]

AP: Olympic boycott ruled out, Russians to admit some wrongdoing
Excerpts:

Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko told The Associated Press on Thursday that there will "not in any case" be a boycott of next year's Olympics in Rio de Janeiro.

A short time later in a separate interview, the acting president of the Russian track federation told the AP he is ready to own up to some of the charges leveled in the World Anti-Doping Agency commission's massive report on doping in the country.

"We admit some things, we argue with some things, some are already fixed, it's a variety," said Vadim Zelichenok, declining to provide further details. "It's not for the press."

IOC President Thomas Bach, meanwhile, met with Russian Olympic Committee head Alexander Zhukov and other officials in Lausanne, Switzerland, amid signs that both sides were working toward an agreement that could avoid a ban.

Bach has said sanctions are up to the IAAF and WADA, but also stressed that the IOC will be ready to strip any medals from Olympic athletes mentioned in the report who are found guilty of doping.

 

[caseyedwards]

If lots of innocent athletes are banned why shouldn't there be a boycott. Nothing would be more unfair than banning the innocent athletes who dreams are destroyed and careers ended.

 

[Braulio]

I hope all the russians who won a medal in athetics at London 2012 are caught and stripped of them.

Jared Tallent, race walker from Australia, deserves that gold medal the russian won (and a year later was caught of doping)

 

[Deleted member 40371]

I hope all the russians who won a medal in athetics at London 2012 are caught and stripped of them.

Jared Tallent, race walker from Australia, deserves that gold medal the russian won (and a year later was caught of doping)

Those who have doped whether Russian or otherwise is caught for doping is the right word. I certainly don't think likes of Yelena isinbayeva doped, even if her political beliefs are crazy.

 

[MsZem]

I hope all the russians who won a medal in athetics at London 2012 are caught and stripped of them.

Jared Tallent, race walker from Australia, deserves that gold medal the russian won (and a year later was caught of doping)

I hope that any athletes who cheated, regardless of nationality, are caught and sanctioned. I would like to think that some Russian athletes did play by the rules, and should not be punished (though they may well end up being so, if Russia is found to be non compliant). Also, I don't for a moment believe that only Russians dope, though it may not be as organized and systemic elsewhere. But the bottom line is that the goal should be fair competition. And to achieve this, the focus should be beyond 1. just Russia and 2. only doping. As comprehensive as the report is, it needs to be a first step, not the only one.

 

[gkelly]

I would expect WADA to investigate doping. If the investigation turns up evidence of other kinds of cheating, who would lead the investigation? The IOC?

 

[Sylvia]

Currently awaiting the news of the decision of the IAAF's 27-member council emergency meeting via teleconference on Friday evening. This AP article outlines what could happen if Russia is provisionally suspended: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/bb61...ians-offer-broad-cooperation-effort-avoid-ban

In the short term, a suspension would keep Russians out of a dozen or so international events the rest of this year, including the European cross-country championships in France on Dec. 13. The athletes could then miss the indoor season, including the world indoor championships in Portland, Oregon, from March 17-20.

Other big events that Russian runners could be ineligible for include the Boston and London Marathons in April.

Russia also faces being stripped of the hosting rights of three IAAF events — the Moscow indoor meet on Feb. 14, the world race walking championships in Cheboksary from May 7-15, and the world junior championships in Kazan from July 19-24.

Russian athletes would be eligible to compete in their own national events during a ban, which only covers international competition.

ETA:

I would expect WADA to investigate doping. If the investigation turns up evidence of other kinds of cheating, who would lead the investigation? The IOC?

I assume so. Only the IOC has the power to strip Olympic medals retroactively: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ae5a...ioc-suspends-diack-opens-way-stripping-medals

"The IOC has asked the IAAF to initiate disciplinary procedures against all athletes, coaches and officials who have participated in the Olympic Games and are accused of doping in the report of the Independent Commission," the statement said.

Following the conclusion of the IAAF investigation, the IOC "will take all the necessary measures and sanctions with regard to the withdrawal and reallocation of medals and as the case may be exclusion of coaches and officials from future Olympic Games."

AP's summary of the main players in the Russian doping scandal: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/23532822d6534907b5c5ca6d7765c71f/main-players-russian-doping-scandal

 

[caseyedwards]

Those who have doped whether Russian or otherwise is caught for doping is the right word. I certainly don't think likes of Yelena isinbayeva doped, even if her political beliefs are crazy.

The issue here isn't individual athletes but the system and they all were from a doping system and likely were doping. Like some say GDR should be erased from Olympic records and maybe because its more recent Russia will be erased from London results maybe Beijing.

 

[Sylvia]

The Latest from the IAAF investigation via the Associated Press today (all times local): http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5529...est-russia-offers-cooperation-ahead-iaaf-vote

ETA the latest updates from the AP link above:

9:30 p.m. - Russia's track federation suspended by IAAF:

Russia's track and field federation has been provisionally suspended by the sport's governing body following damning allegations of state-sponsored doping.
The decision by the IAAF's ruling council will keep Russian track and field athletes out of international competition for an indefinite period — possibly including next year's Olympics in Brazil.
The vote was 22-1.

9:55 p.m. - Mutko slams decision to ban Russia from track

Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko has slammed Russia's suspension from track and field as "very strange," saying the IAAF should have focused on its own legal problems instead.

Mutko tells The Associated Press in a telephone interview that "our reaction is calm. We didn't expect anything else," and that the suspension could be lifted in time for the world indoor championships in Portland, Oregon, in March.

With the IAAF's former president under investigation by French prosecutors investigating corruption and money-laundering charges linked to the IAAF, Mutko says its priorities should have been elsewhere.

He says banning Russia at this time "looks very strange."

 

[Coquelicot14]

https://www.rt.com/sport/321866-iaaf-credibility-tatters-mutko/

Additional information if anyone is interested at looking at this story from all sides.