Who was the most overhyped skater by commentators/writers/insiders in skating

Who is most overhyped and overpraised skater/team ever by commentators, writers, skating insiders


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The whole "Pweety Pwincess" rhetoric on the skating boards is androcentrism at best, complete misogyny at worst. There is nothing wrong with a female skater having or expressing feminine qualities. There is, in fact, nothing wrong with a male skater doing the same.

Find another criticism. Like her jumping technique as a junior that was bound to catch up with her as she grew.

It has nothing to do with andocentrism, etc. This was simply fans’ collective reaction to tv commentators - especially Sandra Bezik - continual hyping of Caroline at her initial Sr national.
 
The whole "Pweety Pwincess" rhetoric on the skating boards is androcentrism at best, complete misogyny at worst.

Why don't you go on the warpath against the 'pwetty pwincess' rhetoric or emphasis for ladies in FS itself? It does exist.

There is nothing wrong with a female skater having or expressing feminine qualities.

But there is something wrong with pushing a female skater into the feminine mold if it doesn't suit the skater. Jumping bean Yoshie Onda in a pink dress with pink pigtails comes to mind. She looked absolutely miserable, and the look didn't suit her.

There is, in fact, nothing wrong with a male skater doing the same.

Male skaters tend to have more freedom in they have some latitude with regard to athletic, artistic and lyrical styles. I hope that is changing to a certain degree. Daleman is quite an athletic skater, but when she was going to skate to Gladiator chose a tinkly piano version of it (rather than the full-on powerful version Yagudin skated to), then abandoned the program. And IIRC she didn't take advantage of the costuming possibilities offered by Gladiator. So, I would say that she was still limited by the feminine ideal.

I don't know why her team didn't encourage her to take risks by skating an athletic and powerful program. Probably the gender stereotypes of FS are so deeply ingrained in them that would even think of it (just as they are ingrained in society at large).
 
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Why don't you go on the warpath against the 'pwetty pwincess' rhetoric or emphasis for ladies in FS itself? It does exist.



But there is something wrong with pushing a female skater into the feminine mold if it doesn't suit the skater. Jumping bean Yoshie Onda in a pink dress with pink pigtails comes to mind. She looked absolutely miserable, and the look didn't suit her.



Male skaters tend to have more freedom in they have some latitude with regard to athletic, artistic and lyrical styles. I hope that is changing to a certain degree. Daleman is quite an athletic skater, but when she was going to skate to Gladiator chose a tinkly piano version of it (rather than the full-on powerful version Yagudin skated to), then abandoned the program. And IIRC she didn't take advantage of the costuming possibilities offered by Gladiator. So, I would say that she was still limited by the feminine ideal.

I don't know why her team didn't encourage her to take risks by skating an athletic and powerful program. Probably the gender stereotypes of FS are so deeply ingrained in them that would even think of it (just as they are ingrained in society at large).

Perhaps Alysa Liu will be the one to break this mold, due to her non-traditional “creation” and upbringing?
Once Alysa is sprung on middle America, it will be interesting to see how she is packaged & how her background is handled. No traditional Pweety Pwincess is she! :watch:
Article citing her “unconventional background” - https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12...hmond-girl-be-figure-skatings-next-big-thing/
 
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I totally agree Judy and Michael were totally robbed. They skated wonderfully to Scherezade and deserved an Olympic medal. So much politics involved in that Olympics. The Italian judge was horrible marking them down for their music choice. Heartless. And crazy that they win the bronze medal at the 1984 Worlds with a subpar performance.

I don't disagree with this but to play devil's advocate for a moment:

They lost the Olympic Bronze medal to Klimova and Ponomorenko, the future Olympic champions and winners of three Olympic medals (And at the time Sergei was considered by some to be the best male ice dancer of that era.) Back then with no specific technical elements it was easy to vote for and prefer a specific team over another just because you like them.

So it's not like Judy and Michael lost to a subpar team. If I was judging, I would have voted for B/S over K/P but my vote would have been very very close.
 
I don't disagree with this but to play devil's advocate for a moment:

They lost the Olympic Bronze medal to Klimova and Ponomorenko, the future Olympic champions and winners of three Olympic medals (And at the time Sergei was considered by some to be the best male ice dancer of that era.) Back then with no specific technical elements it was easy to vote for and prefer a specific team over another just because you like them.

So it's not like Judy and Michael lost to a subpar team. If I was judging, I would have voted for B/S over K/P but my vote would have been very very close.

And I actually liked kind of Klimova & Ponomarenko's FD that year too. I found it charming and I liked the content. They had a ways to go though in terms of their togetherness as a team.

For years, I had maintained that Judy and Michael should've won the silver and K&P should've won the bronze. But that was based on the free dance as I hated B&B's free dance. What complicates matters is that B&B had some awesome compulsories and probably deserved 2nd in some of those dances. Whenever I watch B&B's rhumba CD from that competition, I'm always in awe of their double choctaw.
 
I have to say none of the above, since all but Cohen at least won world's. Any hype they got was very much deserved.

My vote goes to Adam Rippon.
I have respect for how hard he worked especially in the last few years to become much more consistent and get the most out of his skating.

So I don't dislike the guy in the least, but the question is about over-hyping.

In reality, he was a top 10 world skater and I never saw him as much more than that. But he was spoken about like he was among the elite and few commentators dared to speak of his limitations because of his popularity.

Ashley Wagner might be my #2 for similar reasons.
 
Why don't you go on the warpath against the 'pwetty pwincess' rhetoric or emphasis for ladies in FS itself? It does exist.



But there is something wrong with pushing a female skater into the feminine mold if it doesn't suit the skater. Jumping bean Yoshie Onda in a pink dress with pink pigtails comes to mind. She looked absolutely miserable, and the look didn't suit her.



Male skaters tend to have more freedom in they have some latitude with regard to athletic, artistic and lyrical styles. I hope that is changing to a certain degree. Daleman is quite an athletic skater, but when she was going to skate to Gladiator chose a tinkly piano version of it (rather than the full-on powerful version Yagudin skated to), then abandoned the program. And IIRC she didn't take advantage of the costuming possibilities offered by Gladiator. So, I would say that she was still limited by the feminine ideal.

I don't know why her team didn't encourage her to take risks by skating an athletic and powerful program. Probably the gender stereotypes of FS are so deeply ingrained in them that would even think of it (just as they are ingrained in society at large).

There is better language to discuss it than language that demeans the feminine. Demeaning all things feminine is androcentrism.

If you think a female skater is packaged badly, say "I think that her costume/appearance does not suit her". See how simple that is? Saying "pweety pwincess" is demeaning. Notice that it has devolved to adding the implication of a childish stereotypical "lisp"/mispronunciation of words now instead of just using the actual words. It has also been used by fans around the web to demean skaters who are packaged exactly how they wanted to be--i.e. Bradie Tennell's Cinderella. She was quite clear that she was all in for that (I didn't even like it--but not because it was too feminine). It has been used to demean Gracie Gold with the assumption that she didn't choose or like her costumes and music--even though she said otherwise and her choices off ice seem are very feminine.

I have yet to see a female skater be attacked here or anywhere else in the skating social media world for being too masculine. Those words are not even used. If a female skater does not appear stereotypically feminine--based on music, hair and costume color mostly--she is deemed "athletic" and "powerful". You did it yourself. So the very clear implication is that athletic and powerful = not feminine and feminine = childish and weak. As if a certain subset of female skaters are not athletic by virtue of ballet music or up dos.

Enough already. Let's find new words.
 
The walkout definitely wasn't a "B&K should have won" walkout

Hate having to side with judgeju....I mean savchenkoboss, but I was in Vancouver in 2001 and the walkout was definitely about Bourne/Kraatz not medalling. Before we even went into the venue for the free dance, there were people distributing flyers that said people should turn their backs on the medal ceremony if Bourne/Kraatz weren’t on the podium. It was nuts.

The idea that Canadians were equally outraged about Beanie and her wedgie finishing 10th instead of 9th is entertaining though. :lol:
 
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I have to say none of the above, since all but Cohen at least won world's. Any hype they got was very much deserved.

My vote goes to Adam Rippon.
I have respect for how hard he worked especially in the last few years to become much more consistent and get the most out of his skating.

So I don't dislike the guy in the least, but the question is about over-hyping.

In reality, he was a top 10 world skater and I never saw him as much more than that. But he was spoken about like he was among the elite and few commentators dared to speak of his limitations because of his popularity.

Ashley Wagner might be my #2 for similar reasons.

I don’t think Ashley was ever overhyped. If anything I think her career is pretty remarkable for how little anyone spoke about her when she was in juniors with Caroline and Mirai, and then when she was competing against Gracie. I don’t think she was ever really supported by USFSA. She was the first US Woman to win a world medal in 10 years and was dumped 2 years later. She really should have won the 2017 US Champuonships and placed 3rd in 2018. She carried the US Ladies from 2012-2017. I don’t agree in any way Ashley was ever hyped more than Mirai, Caroline, Gracie etc...
 
Judgejudy/savchenkoboss, you're so good at pushing fs fans' emotional buttons. :drama:

The current results of this trivial, nonproductive poll shows that no one is a runaway candidate. And your criteria for even compiling the list is suspect. For example, where are Plushenko, Hanyu, Elvis, Chan, Witt, Orser, Browning, Joubert, Weir, Tat/Max, Tarasova/Morosov, Ito, Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Nathan, Boyang, Shoma, Lysacek, et al? You could finger just about anyone. :blah:

But so, you've chosen emotional lightning rods such as Kwan, Virtue/Moir, and of course current vote leaders, Sale/Pelletier. It's laughable. S/P were not over-hyped. It's just that many fans hate them for what happened in SLC, which was not their fault. They were as much victims as were Berezhnaya/ Sikharudlidze. Yeah but the knee-jerk attitudes against S/P apparently will have them winning this, as usual, dubious, nonsensical poll. Baiul was over-rewarded and slightly overhyped during a very short career. So what!

You may as well have thrown B/S in there ahead of G/G! :duh: Are you kidding?! I'm not surprised to see no votes for G/G yet. You've managed to create the only type of ridiculous poll where G/G aren't leading, and don't even have any votes. :rofl: I'm also not surprised to see the low vote count for Shen/Zhao who were rightly and respectfully credited for their greatness! But only when they weren't being disadvantageously compared to boring Totmianina/Marinin. :COP:

People are voting their negative emotions anyway, but again, that's what you love trolling for.
 
I have to say none of the above, since all but Cohen at least won world's. Any hype they got was very much deserved.

My vote goes to Adam Rippon.
I have respect for how hard he worked especially in the last few years to become much more consistent and get the most out of his skating.

So I don't dislike the guy in the least, but the question is about over-hyping.

In reality, he was a top 10 world skater and I never saw him as much more than that. But he was spoken about like he was among the elite and few commentators dared to speak of his limitations because of his popularity.

Ashley Wagner might be my #2 for similar reasons.

I agree with you about the stupidity of this poll. But seriously, why are you picking on Adam Rippon?! Take a pill and a breather. It's not true that people didn't speak or haven't spoken repeatedly about Adam's poor skating skills. Adam has even spoken of his SS shortcomngs himself in interviews, because he's an honest, straightforward guy. Even a well-regarded U.S. skating official criticized Adam Rippon's SS in a p.r./ training video, while lauding other non-U.S. skaters! Adam's coach Raf has spoken of technique issues that both Adam and Ashley suffered from due to inadequate coaching as youngsters. Raf has constantly lamented that he wasn't able to train these two determined, talented and hard-working skaters much earlier in their careers (Of course Ashley had motivation issues after her World silver medal win, but Raf has spoken of how proud he is of what he was able to help Ashley accomplish). Raf is also clearly proud of Adam!

Neither Ashley nor Adam were 'over-hyped.' They each earned their small measure of success in figure skating. And they were both up against tremendous odds, in part due to some of their technique issues related to poor training as youngsters. The reality is that they had to scrap for everything they got in the tough world of figure skating. It's not always about how much talent you have -- a multitude of other factors are involved in success. Their popularity was due to their capacity to entertain, as well as to master technique to the best of their ability in their finest performances.

The other part of this is that Adam (as well as Dornbush and Miner) came up against godalmighty quad. And let me tell you @Rock2, that's the major reason why Adam Rippon never got closer to a World podium than he did. And it was not for his not having mightily tried either. Adam relentlessly and diligently tried to land 4-lutz, and in the process, he inspired others to relentlessly train the 4-lutz for the huge points they could earn. Eventually, this relentless focus on 4-lutz spawned Boyang's mastery of 4-lutz and subsequent podium success, which in turn inspired Nathan Chen to master 4-lutz and then keep on going... And the rest is men's figure skating history. Nathan Chen was Adam Rippon's training partner for years, and they will both tell you how much they learned from and inspired each other.

Adam Rippon was shafted at 2016 Boston Worlds as were U.S. men generally (having all finished in the top ten, yet still losing a third spot in their home country). :rolleyes: Part of that loss for U.S. men in 2016 is due to judges looking down on Adam Rippon (and indeed on Max Aaron and Grant Hochstein). This when a number of better regarded skaters flubbed their programs but were still debatably placed ahead of Adam. So I don't see where you get off claiming Adam was ever over-hyped by anyone! After making the decision to come out about his sexuality, Adam gained enormous confidence which fed his determination to be the best he could be. Adam worked extremely hard to craft success in the second half of his career, and he did so without being over-hyped or over-rewarded by the judges, regardless of what you or anyone else thinks! In fact, too often, Adam was looked down on as quadless, and thus he was usually underscored, especially for his superior interpretive and expressive qualities.

Dumb poll, but yeah, the desired effect is in process.
 
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Judgejudy/savchenkoboss, you're so good at pushing fs fans' emotional buttons. :drama:

The current results of this trivial, nonproductive poll shows that no one is a runaway candidate. And your criteria for even compiling the list is suspect. For example, where are Plushenko, Hanyu, Elvis, Chan, Witt, Orser, Browning, Joubert, Weir, Tat/Max, Tarasova/Morosov, Ito, Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Nathan, Boyang, Shoma, Lysacek, et al? You could finger just about anyone. :blah:

But so, you've chosen emotional lightning rods such as Kwan, Virtue/Moir, and of course current vote leaders, Sale/Pelletier. It's laughable. S/P were not over-hyped. It's just that many fans hate them for what happened in SLC, which was not their fault. They were as much victims as were Berezhnaya/ Sikharudlidze. Yeah but the knee-jerk attitudes against S/P apparently will have them winning this, as usual, dubious, nonsensical poll. Baiul was over-rewarded and slightly overhyped during a very short career. So what!

You may as well have thrown B/S in there ahead of G/G! :duh: Are you kidding?! I'm not surprised to see no votes for G/G yet. You've managed to create the only type of ridiculous poll where G/G aren't leading, and don't even have any votes. :rofl: I'm also not surprised to see the low vote count for Shen/Zhao who were rightly and respectfully credited for their greatness! But only when they weren't being disadvantageously compared to boring Totmianina/Marinin. :COP:

People are voting their negative emotions anyway, but again, that's what you love trolling for.
 
I think it's all in fun. 😉

Oh yeah, of course I know it's just trivial fun as usual mixed in with the usual negativity. ;) As I said, multiple personality OP is a master at pushing emotional buttons, just for fun. Continue 'having fun' as the sad off-season winds down...

I'm not railing against 'having fun' or I wouldn't have popped into this thread. Others having their bit of 'fun' is not gonna stop me from telling the truth, as I see it of course. Carry on...
 
I don’t think Ashley was ever overhyped. If anything I think her career is pretty remarkable for how little anyone spoke about her when she was in juniors with Caroline and Mirai, and then when she was competing against Gracie. I don’t think she was ever really supported by USFSA. She was the first US Woman to win a world medal in 10 years and was dumped 2 years later. She really should have won the 2017 US Champuonships and placed 3rd in 2018. She carried the US Ladies from 2012-2017. I don’t agree in any way Ashley was ever hyped more than Mirai, Caroline, Gracie etc...

You forgot Rachel Flatt, even she was more hyped and more favored than the USFSA than Ashley, both as a junior and in their young years coming out of Seniors. Despite that she was just a consistent skater who was boring and had even less natural talent and potential than Wagner did.

Ashley as you rightly said never had the USFSA on her side. She should have won Nationals last year and been 3rd and gone to the Olympics this year. Both times screwed in favor of Karen Chen, a talented skater, but one with no international pedigree and poor consistency, and completely unproven. Even during her reign they were praying for someone else, Gracie Gold or Mirai Nagasu for instance, to put it together and take over. Anything she got she earned double overtime.

Yes she did get that bye to the Olympics over Mirai who beat her at Nationals in 2014 but it was fully justified based on their revamped criteria. Even had they not given it to her over Mirai, they also could have over Polina, and would have been even more emphatically justified. And of course she took all kind of vitriol for it, while Rippon and Zhou who both had less justification than Wagner, Zhou imparticular, received no disdain for bypassing Ross based on National results. So she was hardly ever the darling of skating fans or the press either.
 
I always felt the worst about the hype that Sasha Cohen got. Most skaters would be praised for a competitive record that included world medals, a Nat title, and an OSM, but for someone who (like Sasha) was described as "potentially the best ever" or who "never hits a bad position", such a record is considered disappointing.
 
In fairness to Cohen if U.S Nationals had adopted IJS a year sooner like every other country did she likely wins Nationals in 2005. Even though she had a couple more mistakes than Kwan, her skating is so much more IJS friendly she likely still wins. So she really should have 2 National titles.

Also that she had to compete against Kwan. Of course she deserves some of the blame as she could have won in 2000 (only because Kwan and Hughes were subpar here, but still a win was there), 2003, 2004, 2005, maybe 2010 (not sure on 2010 but maybe) had she skated cleanly, but having to compete for years at Nationals with Kwan was unlucky for her and denied her many more National titles. Nobody else fairly recently has had to face that for years really since Yamaguchi retired amateur so soon. I am sure if she is in the era of Gold/Wagner she atleast splits the National titles with them evenly, if not wins more than both of them. Since those two almost never skate clean programs either, and Gold typically makes many more mistakes than Sasha does.

It is also not true she never won a major title like Olympics/Grand Prix final/worlds. She won the Grand Prix final in 2002-2003 season, beating Slutskaya who had beaten Kwan to win the last 3 GPF titles so that was a big win. Even more since it was in Russia, and as we saw with Sotnitkova in Sochi, beating a Russian in Russia is super hard, they dont even have to outskate you to win. Her Olympic Silver is also probably worth atleast equal to a World title.

I also agree with UGG at the special qualities Sasha did bring to the sport, things that had not been seen before, and that are an inspiration for many skaters today. So I still stand by that she was overhyped by Dick Button and people like him, but I also agree you can atleast partly understand why.
 
I know he has a lot of hardware but I never understood the love for Plushenko and all of those sort of jazz hand movements. He certainly had a quad though. I suspect he just wasn't my cup of tea.

I agree maybe with a bit of regard to the judges, but I dont feel he was ever overpraised by commentators or people who cover the sport. If anything he has a lot of detractors (for the reasons you said) for someone so accomplished.
 
Based on the CBC commentary of Barbara Underhill, Paul Martini, and Chris Cuthbert, I might go with Usova & Zhulin. I agreed with them to a certain extent that they were a lovely team to watch and they were beautifully smooth and had nice extension. But I thought many of their compulsories kind of sucked and their programs really lacked content.

Thinking about Underhill's commentary at the 1992 Olympics makes me chuckle because she heaped nothing but praise on Usova & Zhulin as well as the Duchesnays but she barely hid her contempt for Klimova & Ponomarenko.
 
Based on the CBC commentary of Barbara Underhill, Paul Martini, and Chris Cuthbert, I might go with Usova & Zhulin. I agreed with them to a certain extent that they were a lovely team to watch and they were beautifully smooth and had nice extension. But I thought many of their compulsories kind of sucked and their programs really lacked content.

Thinking about Underhill's commentary at the 1992 Olympics makes me chuckle because she heaped nothing but praise on Usova & Zhulin as well as the Duchesnays but she barely hid her contempt for Klimova & Ponomarenko.

Yes CBC were massive fans of Usova & Zhulin. Definitely overhyped by CBC who made it sound like the biggest highway robbery ever they didnt win more than 1 world title and neither the 92 or 94 Olympics.

Barb Underhill is a horrendous commentator in general. I still remember her whining Maria's World title in 99 didnt count since Kwan had a cold, and she isnt even that big a Kwan fan, she just hates Maria and was super bitter and sour Maria won a World title after years of dissing her in her commentary. And her ridiculous Stojko, Bourne & Kraatz, Baiul, Sale & Pelletier, Yamaguchi, Usova & Zhulin, Kovarikova & Novotny, and others bias. As bad as she is in all the other events, she is by far worst of all in ice dancing though. She even admits she has no technical knowledge of ice dance at all so I dont know why someone like Tracy Wilson or anyone available do it for her. Sandra Bezic the same thing, she even said repeatedly on Off the Record when asked for viewpoints "I am not the authority on ice dancing, dont ask me", but she sure was mighty outspoken on her ice dance commentary and accusations for someone who admits to not being knowledgeable on the discipline. I still remember Barb insisting the entire 97-98 season Lobacheva & Averbuhk had the best OD in the world that season, while they had a good OD, this was definitely not true, it was clearly Anissina & Peizerat who had the best OD that season and were constantly robbed on it throught the season (L&A were also robbed to frequently be below B&K in that phase all season). I imagine being devoid of any real knowledge on dance most of her commentary is based on personal preferences, and biases based on possible vendettas/relationships good or bad with various skaters and teams.
 
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For sure. When it came to ice dance, Barbara Underhill often talked about stuff like emotional quality, audience connection, etc. Not so much about the other (and IMO) more important aspects of ice dance! I even remember her comment about G&P's FD in 1992 about how she wanted to see more emotion and how it was a little sterile for her tastes. But that was the point of the program! It was a voidy free dance where they represented robots who come to life. It was meant to have a cold and clinical feel to it. That's actually one of the reasons why I loved that free dance from G&P. Their cold and clinical free dance provided a fascinating contrast to the red hot passion the other 2 Unified Team teams showcased.

I actually think her over the top love for B&K and Stojko is what soured me off of both of them. A small part of me does admit that Stojko likely deserved the gold in 1994 over Urmanov. But to this day, I can never be objective about his skating!
 
Hate having to side with judgeju....I mean savchenkoboss, but I was in Vancouver in 2001 and the walkout was definitely about Bourne/Kraatz not medalling. Before we even went into the venue for the free dance, there were people distributing flyers that said people should turn their backs on the medal ceremony if Bourne/Kraatz weren’t on the podium. It was nuts.

The idea that Canadians were equally outraged about Beanie and her wedgie finishing 10th instead of 9th is entertaining though. :lol:

Don't worry. If you scroll back through this thread. You're siding with me, too.

I was also in Vancouver, and that was the general consensus with the people sitting in my section as well.
 
Probably also why she’s a front runner on this poll.
I only ever saw Kwan skate in person at an ice show. When she skated out into the rink and raised her arms as she went around, and smiled at the audience, it was like she showered everyone with joy.
 
I know he has a lot of hardware but I never understood the love for Plushenko and all of those sort of jazz hand movements. He certainly had a quad though. I suspect he just wasn't my cup of tea.

Yes, it seems he was not. :lol:
But he wasn't the North-American commentators' favorite, too especially in Vancouver. The ES guys love him so much and if you listen some early commentaries of North-American commentators he praised him many times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQPXPf14JQw It worth to watch a nice collection of commentators' words
A part of his new program on IG https://www.instagram.com/p/BnWh56gH_5I/?taken-by=plushenkoofficial and a comment:
insomnambula : "Shtrafbat" is the music source--I don't know the composer. Lovely choice--and new where Russian is not spoken. Honestly, dear Zhenya, how it thrills us to see you working on new choreography! You have programs we cherish, which inspire us, and which you refine more beautifully every year: those are essential--as are great early songs to the experienced singer. But just as a magnificent singer wishes to hear and see new repertoire, he must also be allowed to sing new songs! Your timeless programs are the foundation of your art and our joy, but you are still young--and still our example of how an artist develops. Anyone who loves movement can never doubt it. With ballet dancers, we often talk in English about "the vocabulary of movement." You have changed the vocabulary of figure skating--and the more you skate, the more you refine it. This serves every skater, whether they know it or not. I have been watching your skating since you first began competing internationally, and have been admiring your constant refinement and reformation of various elements while performing your earlier programs since leaving competition. I know you have been thinking and now you give us a chance to see more of those thoughts in action. No skater in the world--none--can express himself as clearly as you do, because there is no extraneous movement. Elbows, knees--they are surely there, but what one sees is only what you hear and understand in the music. (That is poetry, you know--the most condensed form of expression!) You have also faced difficulties and asked questions all your life, so that when you skate, you tell us things that only you can say. Thank you for your willingness to overcome large challenges to share so much beauty. Your work has been an inspiration in dark hours--and the sun of many bright ones. I am happy for the audiences in China that will soon see your finished program--and hope that we, too, will see it. What an adventure life is!"

There is too much difference between your opinion and this opinion. Anyway, Yuka Sato wants to see the whole program, she has written a comment..
 
Bourne & Kraatz. They were never as good as these people made it sound. And frankly I always laughed and could never understand their rage. lol
 
Yes, it seems he was not. :lol:
But he wasn't the North-American commentators' favorite, too especially in Vancouver. The ES guys love him so much and if you listen some early commentaries of North-American commentators he praised him many times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQPXPf14JQw It worth to watch a nice collection of commentators' words
A part of his new program on IG https://www.instagram.com/p/BnWh56gH_5I/?taken-by=plushenkoofficial and a comment:
insomnambula : "Shtrafbat" is the music source--I don't know the composer. Lovely choice--and new where Russian is not spoken. Honestly, dear Zhenya, how it thrills us to see you working on new choreography! You have programs we cherish, which inspire us, and which you refine more beautifully every year: those are essential--as are great early songs to the experienced singer. But just as a magnificent singer wishes to hear and see new repertoire, he must also be allowed to sing new songs! Your timeless programs are the foundation of your art and our joy, but you are still young--and still our example of how an artist develops. Anyone who loves movement can never doubt it. With ballet dancers, we often talk in English about "the vocabulary of movement." You have changed the vocabulary of figure skating--and the more you skate, the more you refine it. This serves every skater, whether they know it or not. I have been watching your skating since you first began competing internationally, and have been admiring your constant refinement and reformation of various elements while performing your earlier programs since leaving competition. I know you have been thinking and now you give us a chance to see more of those thoughts in action. No skater in the world--none--can express himself as clearly as you do, because there is no extraneous movement. Elbows, knees--they are surely there, but what one sees is only what you hear and understand in the music. (That is poetry, you know--the most condensed form of expression!) You have also faced difficulties and asked questions all your life, so that when you skate, you tell us things that only you can say. Thank you for your willingness to overcome large challenges to share so much beauty. Your work has been an inspiration in dark hours--and the sun of many bright ones. I am happy for the audiences in China that will soon see your finished program--and hope that we, too, will see it. What an adventure life is!"

There is too much difference between your opinion and this opinion. Anyway, Yuka Sato wants to see the whole program, she has written a comment..

lala---you were the one person who I hoped didn't see my comment because I know he is your favorite. All skaters should have fans as dedicated as you are to Plushy. I do LIKE him even if I wasn't sure about some of his choices on ice.
 
lala---you were the one person who I hoped didn't see my comment because I know he is your favorite. All skaters should have fans as dedicated as you are to Plushy. I do LIKE him even if I wasn't sure about some of his choices on ice.

I said not once I don't want to convince anyone (but no one can convince me how bad Plush is). I just wanted to share the other side because I have never experienced such huge differences in the opinions about a skater.( The greatest artist vs only a jumper) . It's really interesting. Can you tell me another one? I'm sure you can't.
 

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