Which women had the hardest competition during their reign

[bumblebeevich]

I list the following as options:

Ito 1988-1992, since lets face it even though she only won in 1989 she was either seen as the one to beat or the most famous skater that whole period.

Yamaguchi 1991-1995, this extends to some of her pro career as until the Decmeber 1995-March 1996 period when she first lost her consistency and world pro title to Sato and Chen and Kwan skated so amazingly at worlds she was clearly considered the best in the world those 5 years with only Ito at times (both in amateurs and pros) and Harding in 1991 ever challenging her standard.

Witt 1982-1988, since even though her first major title was 1984, she won the combined free skating at both the 82 and 83 worlds, and was 1 judge from being silver at both worlds while the winners were 6th and 11th-WD respectively at the alternate worlds.

Slutskaya 2000-2006, since she generally had the most overall success of anyone (2 Olympic medals, 2 world titles, 3 straight GPF final titles, 5 European titles, by far the most grand prix wins) and was considered the one to beat this period. Her losses to Kwan at the 2000 and 2001 worlds, Hughes at the 2002 Olympics, and Arakawa at the 2006 Olympics were all considered big upsets.

Kim 2007-2014, I start in 2007 since while she didnt start dominating some until the 07-08 where she dominated the season until being injured at worlds, she did win the GP final in December 06 and set the WR short program at the 2007 worlds.

Asada 2005-2010, I start in 2005 since there was already talk she was the best skater in the world in 2005 when competing only junior, and she proved it in 2006 when she easily beat Slutskaya who did skates which would have won her the OGM later that year at the GPF.

Hamill 1974-1976 and 1984-1987 in pros

Medvedeva fall 2015-today

Chen 1993-1996- I am including her since there are some (many) fans who believe she should have won each of the 1993 worlds, 1994 Olympics (or silver over Baiul), 1995 worlds, and 1996 worlds, and she was the most consistent and most medaled skater by far over the 1992-1996 period. I personally dont believe that at all, especialy not deserving anything better in 93 and 94 skating that tacky Mission program, but I will cede to the majority opinion which does not align with mine I guess and give her an honorable inclusion.

Lipinski 1997-1998- I personally dont think she should be included since 1997 and 1998 overall field sucked, but since she beat Kwan 4 of 5 times which is mighty impressive even if many of those in early 97 when Kwan was bombing regularly, and since she didnt get many votes on the weakest competition ever poll of a few years ago, unlike Baiul and Kwan, I guess I will include her as the 10th and final option.

I exclude the following since I am out of options and:

Kwan 1996-2003- Since she finished 1st on the weakest competition ever poll a few years ago so it seems pointless to include her on a hardest competition poll. Plus 1997-1999 was literally a ghost level field as I already noted with Lipinski. Fall 1996 was the first time I stopped watching ladies skating for awhile as the skating was so bad on the fall grand prix.

Baiul 1993-1994- Since she finished 2nd to Kwan on the weakest competition ever poll here a few years ago so it seems pointless to include her on a hardest competition poll after that.
And since as already noted with Yamaguchi, she would have been destroying Baiul head to head even though she was officialy pro.

Poetzsch 1977-1980- Since her competition wasnt hard, Fratianne was her only threat and she isnt even that good, and her only losses to Linda were 77 and 79 worlds where Poetzsch bombed, and since Poetzsch herself isnt that good anyway and much weaker than most of the above skaters despite her wins.

Arakawa 2004-2006- Since she didnt do enough outside her 2 big wins to be included for this period, and the field wasnt strong these years anyway, just look at the 2006 Olympics mess.

 

[briancoogaert]

I'd say Yu Na Kim as she had so many talented skaters against her : Ando, Asada, Rochette, Kostner... And none of them was really consistent.

 

[blue_idealist]

Kim, since she always had to deal with Asada and her 3A. Yamaguchi had to deal with Ito's 3A, but I think Ito was slightly weaker than Asada, all things considered.

 

[bumblebeevich]

I would pick Kim. That such a great skater who is so incredibly consistent and had such a long career won only 2 world titles already suggests her competition must have been incredible. After all some much weaker skaters than her like Katarina Witt , Yuka Sato (6 time World Champion, 5 Pro, 1 amateur), and Michelle Kwan have so many more titles.

Plus looking at her competition:

Mao Asada- An excellent overall skater and artist who also has a consistent triple axel.

Miki Ando- 2 time World Champion with super consistent triple lutz-triple loop, one of the best jumpers ever, and who became fairly strong artistically and has strong basic skating.

Joannie Rochette- Excellent all around skater who would be multi World Champion in any other era.

Carolina Kostner- Legendary skater, 6 time world medalist who would also be multi World Champion and Olympic Champion (with her 2014 Oly skates which easily win any Olympics outside of 2010 and 2014) in any other era, who is still skating brilliantly well into her 30s.

Adelina Sotnikova- Olympic Champion and 5 time Russian Champion in insanely strong Russian field, who of course had a surge of politics for her and against Kim and all of her other competitors in Sochi.

Julia Lipnitskaia- Another Olympic Champion, World medalist, European Champion, another Tara Lipinski, a super consistent small jumping machine, but with much better artistry and light years better spins than Tara.


Kristi would get an honorable mention but she faced Ito a bit past her best, and Harding was only on top of herself for about a year, and Sato didn't emerge to her best until starting in 95 around. And she is a 6 time World Champion and Olympic Champion, so it is hard to imagine her competition is as hard as Kim's who has only 2 World titles and an Olympic title, as she is not that much better.

 

[montrealsurfa]

I would say Slutskaya since she had to face Kwan at her best from 2000 to 2002, then Arakawa in her unexpected late career surge from 2004-2006, as well as peak Cohen in 2005-2006 with Cohen equally well suited to IJS and the ultimate judges pet. She also had to deal with Butyrskaya being the pet of the Russian fed over her, despite Maria being a far inferior skater.

 

[blue_idealist]

I would say Slutskaya since she had to face Kwan at her best from 2000 to 2002, then Arakawa in her unexpected late career surge from 2004-2006, as well as peak Cohen in 2005-2006 with Cohen equally well suited to IJS and the ultimate judges pet. She also had to deal with Butyrskaya being the pet of the Russian fed over her, despite Maria being a far inferior skater.

I've read in a skating book that Butyrskaya was actually disliked by the Russian fed, although that book referred more to the early '90s than late '90s/'00s. Maybe she was in favour more after winning Worlds in '99.

 

[poths]

Theoretically it was Chen. Between 1993 and 1996 she had to compete with Baiul, Kerrigan, Witt (94), Ito (96), Slutskaya, Kwan, Lipinski (debut at worlds 96), Bonaly and Butyrskaya = 7 World champions, 9 world medalists, 3 Olympic champions, 7 Olympic medalists. Probably telling that the year she won her world title there was 'only' 15 year old Kwan, Slutskaya, Bonaly and Bobek.

 

[bardtoob]

Yamaguchi was technically behind Ito and Harding, who are still known for being every bit as able as the skaters today. Yamaguchi seemed to be considered less attractive in some ways than Kerrigan, if sponsors are any indication.

Yamaguchi had a real uphill battle that she won. She was a National, World, and Olympic Champion.

I think Yamaguchi faced the stiffest competition, both Nationally and Globally. We also must not forget that Kristi could do a late program 3Lz, the 3Lz-3T, and her 3F was consistent enough that she included it in pairs competition . . . Yamaguchi was something special and probably the best competitor because she battled to victory despite being acutely aware of her limitations.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Not Yuna because after 2009 judges pretty much ignored any mistakes and it was clear to they weren’t going to let any skater beat her in that Olympic season unless something bizarro happened.

 

[montrealsurfa]

I cant believe the person who said Chen because she faced Witt, ROTFL! There could be arguments for Chen having it toughest, especialy with the Chinese fed being weak then; and while having a far inferior fed than her rivals backing her, little hype, and little judging preference, facing Bonaly, Kerrigan, Baiul all at their very best in 93-95, and then Kwan, Lipinski, and Slutskaya from 96-98, but it sure as heck has nothing to do with facing a granny and technically outdated Witt who struggled to do a triple toe and double axel. Mentioning Chen facing the lame Ito of the 96 worlds is also kind of stupid.

I agree with Yamaguchi except for 1 thing. While she faced on paper really strong field with Ito and Harding, probably the 2 best jumpers ever, and Kerrigan, Kerrigan was a weak competitor who always folded in the long program, and Ito had that accident at the 91 worlds and was out of the running after the short program at the 92 Games. Harding was also never the same skater again after 91, which is the only year she gave Kristi a real run for her money. Things arent always what they seem on paper. Kristi had to skate really really well to win her 91 world title, but not so well to win the 92 Olympic Gold easily, and faced literally nothing to win the 92 Worlds. I do think it is a good point though she made the most of very limited physical talents and perhaps overall talents, particularly in comparision to athletic and basic skating gods like Harding, Ito, and even Kerrigan was more naturally talented in those areas. For that she would still be a good choice.

I think it would be between Yamaguchi, Slutskaya and Kim. I already explained why Slutskaya would be a good choice, especialy And Kim was not coronated after 2009, she only won 2 more big titles after 2009, the Olympics and 2013 worlds, and I guess another grand prix final if that counts. She was even deprived by the judges of 2 additional golds at the 2011 worlds and 2014 Olympics they could have easily given to her if they wanted to, especialy the 2014 Olympics which is probably one of the most controversial robbings of all time. Some coronation.

 

[montrealsurfa]

Nobody is mentioning Witt but most of her reign had a very strong and diverse field. In the 81-84 quad she had to face Sumners who was a great artist, Zayak a jumping trailblazer, Leistner a strong figures specialist and jumper, the emerging Russians who had 2 or 3 very strong skaters, Biellmann for awhile, Vikki De Vries who was a very strong American skater, figures specialist Kristofics Binder and Wegelius, and young hotshot Tiffany Chin. Then the 85-88 quad was even stronger as she was up against Thomas, Witt, Kadavy, Chin, Trenary, young Ito, Manley, Ivanova, Kondrashova, Lebedeva, Leistner, a really strong overall field, and she dominated, losing I think only 1 time that whole quad, and even that was only since she messed up her short program. She had atleast 1 huge gift- NHK 87, but still impressive, particularly to be that dominant over such a field. Even more impressive when she was never the most talented athlete, technician, or even stylist.

 

[Spun Silver]

Mao. First Yu Na and then the Russian train, to say nothing of Kostner. Very very tough.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I cant believe the person who said Chen because she faced Witt, ROTFL! There could be arguments for Chen having it toughest, especialy with the Chinese fed being weak then; and while having a far inferior fed than her rivals backing her, little hype, and little judging preference, facing Bonaly, Kerrigan, Baiul all at their very best in 93-95, and then Kwan, Lipinski, and Slutskaya from 96-98, but it sure as heck has nothing to do with facing a granny and technically outdated Witt who struggled to do a triple toe and double axel. Mentioning Chen facing the lame Ito of the 96 worlds is also kind of stupid.

I agree with Yamaguchi except for 1 thing. While she faced on paper really strong field with Ito and Harding, probably the 2 best jumpers ever, and Kerrigan, Kerrigan was a weak competitor who always folded in the long program, and Ito had that accident at the 91 worlds and was out of the running after the short program at the 92 Games. Harding was also never the same skater again after 91, which is the only year she gave Kristi a real run for her money. Things arent always what they seem on paper. Kristi had to skate really really well to win her 91 world title, but not so well to win the 92 Olympic Gold easily, and faced literally nothing to win the 92 Worlds. I do think it is a good point though she made the most of very limited physical talents and perhaps overall talents, particularly in comparision to athletic and basic skating gods like Harding, Ito, and even Kerrigan was more naturally talented in those areas. For that she would still be a good choice.

I think it would be between Yamaguchi, Slutskaya and Kim. I already explained why Slutskaya would be a good choice, especialy And Kim was not coronated after 2009, she only won 2 more big titles after 2009, the Olympics and 2013 worlds, and I guess another grand prix final if that counts. She was even deprived by the judges of 2 additional golds at the 2011 worlds and 2014 Olympics they could have easily given to her if they wanted to, especialy the 2014 Olympics which is probably one of the most controversial robbings of all time. Some coronation.

She barely competed. Yuna might have gotten one or two stingy judges, but by comparison she got MANY gifts. MANY.

 

[Polaris]

^Like WHAT? I think Kim is probably the least gifted skater. She earned all of her titles and there wasn't any title of hers that was controversial. Unlike say, Kostner.

 

[Vash01]

Yamaguchi turned pro in 1992 after her OGM. It doesn't make sense to list her through 1995. Her reign was really short (2. Years). Pro doesn't count.

 

[bumblebeevich]

Pros dont count is subjective. If you notice on my mens poll I also noticed Boitano was the real king of skating from 86-92 since up until 92 he was still considered the best in the world despite being pro. From 93-95 Kristi was considered clearly the best in the world, despite being pro, even by a bigger margin than 91-92 where you atleast had Ito close to her, and in 91 Harding close to her as well. The people winning the big amateur titles like Baiul, Sato, Kerrigan, Chen would have all been destroyed by Yamaguchi in a head to head competition and Kristi would have easily won the 93 worlds, 94 Olympics, 94 worlds, and 95 worlds had she competed. Not until 96 when her pro skating declined and she began losing often to Sato in the pros, and Michelle Kwan began her peak years in amateur was she arguably not the best in the world for the first time since 1990.

 

[MAXSwagg]

^Like WHAT? I think Kim is probably the least gifted skater. She earned all of her titles and there wasn't any title of hers that was controversial. Unlike say, Kostner.

She was continuously gifted in components (ignoring the VAST amount of crossovers she did in her programs vs. Carolina and Mao) and non-jump GOEs (hello, spiral positions only marginally better than Slutskaya or perhaps as low as Ando, and only average layback and camel positions).

 

[VolosozharGOAT]

Kim has only won 3 major events in her career. None were even 1% questionable. By contrast she has lost numerous times in a big event she arguably deserved to win- 2008 worlds, 2011 worlds, 2014 Olympics. Of course not everyone agrees she should have won all those events, but there are atleast some who argue she deserved all 3, and nearly everyone thinks she should have won or atleast placed over the controversial winner at the 2014 Olympics. While absolutely not a soul on the planet argues the 3 events she should have won, which is very rare for anyone who has won multiple major titles. Yeah sounds like an overscored skater to me, ROTFL!! More like the opposite and probably one oft he most robbed skaters ever if anything. Anyway this is a hardest competition poll, not I "skater I super hate so I say she is overscored despite no evidence" poll.

 

[Polaris]

She was continuously gifted in components (ignoring the VAST amount of crossovers she did in her programs vs. Carolina and Mao) and non-jump GOEs (hello, spiral positions only marginally better than Slutskaya or perhaps as low as Ando, and only average layback and camel positions).

You're as much of a broken record as gotoschool, repeating the same thing over and over again. Kim has great edges and PE, IN, skating skills and speed. Plus, she could skate cleanly when it counted. If you want to talk about crossovers, then throw Asada in there. I saw her live and she not only had a a bunch of crossovers, she was also slower than Tursynbayeva.

Kostner has got to be one of the most gifted skaters in the history of the discipline. The way PCS points are being handed out like candy to the Russians, I would say Kim was UNDERGIFTED in PCS.

 

[bardtoob]

Kostner has got to be one of the most gifted skaters in the history of the discipline. The way PCS points are being handed out like candy to the Russians, I would say Kim was UNDERGIFTED in PCS.

I was looking at pre-2010 protocols the other day and marveling at how even the best skaters could hardly get 8.5 from an individual judge in just one category of PCS.

 

[Fiero425]

Theoretically it was Chen. Between 1993 and 1996 she had to compete with Baiul, Kerrigan, Witt (94), Ito (96), Slutskaya, Kwan, Lipinski (debut at worlds 96), Bonaly and Butyrskaya = 7 World champions, 9 world medalists, 3 Olympic champions, 7 Olympic medalists. Probably telling that the year she won her world title there was 'only' 15 year old Kwan, Slutskaya, Bonaly and Bobek.

I picked Chen as well for that reason! It's not like she was ever the best over an era, but there were so many other champions and near champions to compete against and keep her from winning more! I had stopped watching skating during the Witt era, but came back for Kerrigan/Harding at Olympics of '94! I fell in love with Surya Bonaly who seemed to be in line to win Bronze, but she blew her Lutz in the LP after a spectacular start of 3T/.5L/3 Salchow allowing Chen to take that spot on the podium! After winning Worlds the following year, Chen seemed to go into a tailspin, but miraculously was able to get herself back on the podium in '98 Nagano; same with Candeloro for the men! I'm in awe of her accomplishments with the burden of being from China during some tragic moments!

 

[travismoncton]

Some are hard since like comparing Kim vs Asada how do you even decide which had it harder since they had the same career timeline, 2006 to 2014 as seniors for both. Asada competed after 2014 but that part of her career is meaningless. So basically their competition was exactly the same, all the same people, one cant be any better or any worse than the other in terms of their competition. Basically the only difference could be which of Asada or Kim you consider better, if you consider Kim better then Asada's competition was a bit harder only since she had to face Kim and everyone else the same, and vice versa. Otherwise they both faced the same Kostner, the same Ando, the same Rochette, the same Meissner, the same baby Russians with the same Sochi political riggage for a certain Russian win, and so on.

It would be almost the same if you were comparing say Slutskaya and Kwan. Atleast comparing Ito and Yamaguchi there is a difference is Ito competed for many years before Kristi really came on the scene.

 

[Vash01]

Pros dont count is subjective. If you notice on my mens poll I also noticed Boitano was the real king of skating from 86-92 since up until 92 he was still considered the best in the world despite being pro. From 93-95 Kristi was considered clearly the best in the world, despite being pro, even by a bigger margin than 91-92 where you atleast had Ito close to her, and in 91 Harding close to her as well. The people winning the big amateur titles like Baiul, Sato, Kerrigan, Chen would have all been destroyed by Yamaguchi in a head to head competition and Kristi would have easily won the 93 worlds, 94 Olympics, 94 worlds, and 95 worlds had she competed. Not until 96 when her pro skating declined and she began losing often to Sato in the pros, and Michelle Kwan began her peak years in amateur was she arguably not the best in the world for the first time since 1990.

Pros don't count in my opinion because the results were predetermined and the competition was nowhere close to the eligible competition. Boitano and Yamaguchi made great progress as skaters/artists as pros but the reading they won was they were able to do jumps in a very diluted field if skaters who could do only 2 or 3 jumps.

 

[travismoncton]

I agree pro results shouldnt count but the competition wasnt always easy or even weaker than the amateurs. Ito and Sato gave Yamaguchi a bigger run for her money in pro events than anyone in the amateurs could have until Kwan emerged. Skaters like Kerrigan, Chen, Bonaly were never competitive with Yamaguchi and were never going to be. Ito and Sato (who improved way more as a pro than she ever was as an amateur despite winning a worlds) could atleast beat Kristi occasionaly in pros and give her a lot of close contests which people like Kerrigan, Chen, Baiul, Bonaly never would have been doing had Kristi stayed amateur vs those a few more years.

Ito in pro events was still doing triple axel cleanly while Kristi was doing 2 triple lutzes in her programs, which almost none of the top amateur girls were even trying. Biellman was doing technically easier jumps but they were textbook and amazing quality, her fitness and endurance was the best of any women on ice at the time, and her spins were much better than all the pro and amateur skaters apart from Kreig and Ruh. Sato was still doing all the triples, but with much better artistry and packaging than she had when she won her world amateur title and still wasnt winning all the pro events.

 

[poths]

I cant believe the person who said Chen

Greetings montrealsurfa. If it wasn't for your username I'd seriously be considering awarding you rudest euro I've read on the board in 15 years.
Being so disrespectful towards a double olympic champion who changed the sport, referring to a 29 year old as a 'granny'! The youth of today.

 

[shady82]

She was continuously gifted in components (ignoring the VAST amount of crossovers she did in her programs vs. Carolina and Mao) and non-jump GOEs (hello, spiral positions only marginally better than Slutskaya or perhaps as low as Ando, and only average layback and camel positions).

She was definitely gifted in components, but so are most of the top-ranking skaters in each discipline such as Medvedeva. At least her major title wins are all undisputed, and she was the rightful winner in 2011 Worlds and Sochi (or perhaps Kostner). 2008 Worlds was rightfully won by Mao.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

She was definitely gifted in components, but so are most of the top-ranking skaters in each discipline such as Medvedeva. At least her major title wins are all undisputed, and she was the rightful winner in 2011 Worlds and Sochi (or perhaps Kostner). 2008 Worlds was rightfully won by Mao.

2011 was funny since Ando probably should have won the short program and not Kim as it turned out, and yet Kim was probably robbed overall. I think that result was as much the scoring system as anythin though, under 6.0 Kim would have 100% won the LP and overall (if she were top 3 in the short with her mistake which is still probable given the field) quite easily, but under IJS one can see how Ando was able to win even if still it can be disputed.

 

[joubertelegant]

Kim or Asada for sure. That era with 2 of the very best skaters ever, atleast 2 of the top 5 ever (Kim and Asada) both who you could make a reasonable case for as best ever which is the only era ever that had 2 skaters you could make that case for; along with Kostner, Ando, Rochette, Sotnikova, Liptniskaya, Meissner, Suzuki all at their peaks. Someone like Rochette would probably be a multi World Champion in any other era, but in this one was barely a medalist a couple times, and both times controversially. A skater of Kostner's quality would have much more than 1 world/Olympic title in another era, even with her consistency issues, but in this era that is what she is held down to. How tough an era it was is demonstrated by that someone like Fumie Suguri who was a regular medalist and major gold medal contender in the Kwan/Slutskaya era couldnt even make her own National team and at her one worlds she did make for Japan was out of the top 10/barely top 10 (I forget her exact placing but in the 9-12 range somewhere).

The competition today pales in comparision, just look at the cakewalk Medvedeva had the last 2 seasons.

 

[ohashibiles]

Pros don't count in my opinion because the results were predetermined and the competition was nowhere close to the eligible competition. Boitano and Yamaguchi made great progress as skaters/artists as pros but the reading they won was they were able to do jumps in a very diluted field if skaters who could do only 2 or 3 jumps.

I think pro events had more credible scoring than amateur events. Since they were judged by actual skaters and past winners who really know the sport, while Olympic level skating is judged mostly by volunteers who are not skating experts and only in the minority cases past elite skaters.

 

[sylvestercat]

Asada or Kim since they had by far the toughest field. So whichever you think is the weaker of those two, since I think Asada is weaker than Kim, that means Asada.