Who was the most overhyped skater by commentators/writers/insiders in skating

[gk_891]

Cohen - jumps too small

Not only were her jumps small but she didn't have a lutz and her edges were not great.

 

[Emerald66]

I remember Ilinykh/Katsalapov were extremely over hyped as juniors. Everyone thought they'd be saviors of Russian id and win gold in Sochi. That continued when they transferred to seniors but only had a so-so season. When they started showing that they were inconsistent and Nikita was vulnerable when it came to twizzles, that's when people started to calm down on them. Also probably the Ghost fd... Still took home a Bronze and team Gold from the Olympics though, so good for them for that.

 

[Limonite]

Sale & Pelletier. I remember back in the early 2000's watching them skate, listening to the commentators and thinking "what? seriously? really?" about what they were saying of their amazing performance.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I recall hearing once that apparently Sandhu was the skater that Plushenko and Mishin most worried about, because they figured that if he ever got his shit together, he'd be extremely difficult to beat.
So the hype wasn't entirely unfounded, it's just that Sandhu never lived up to it.

It's also hard to tell how being kept off the 1998 Olympic team might have affected him...

I can understand some of the rational when it comes to Sandhu, but the thing is many 1999-2000 competitions proved a clean Sandhu could never even beat a clean Stojko, so how on earth then could he be beating a clean Yagudin or Plushenko. That is unless you are going to argue a clean Stojko would also be beating a clean Yagudin or Plushenko. Skating isnt like tennis where it is a game of match ups, hypothetically everyone can be in the same competition at once.

As for most balletic, IMO Buttle at his best was atleast equally balletic and far more interesting. Lambiel as well. Weir arguably as well. Sandhu didnt show much versatility and mostly only skated to tradional classical programs with heavy overbearing pieces of music, similar to someone like Urmanov. And even when he landed his jumps his entrances to some of them, particularly the triple axel, were super slow, and bothered me, and wouldnt help him in a judging comparision to some of the big guns unless they had mistakes. A big contrast to how skaters like Yagudin, Plushenko, Hanyu, Joubert, some of the other Japanese and some of the Americans, rip into their big jumps.

Plushenko had such dire competition in the mid 2000s with no real rival, so I could easily see Sandhu being the one to be most worried about if he got his shit together. IMO that speaks much more to no somewhat decent rival who was giving him any competition those couple years though, than it does to Sandhu. None of Lambiel, Joubert, Buttle, Weir, were ever coming close, so by default a hypothetical on Sandhu might be the biggest threat or something. He or Mishin sure didnt feel that way or say anything approaching that when Yagudin was still skating or even when Goebel was doing 3 quads per long program for instance. If someone like Mishin or Plushenko said that back in 2000-2003 I would say wow that is a big deal and reconsider my view and give that bigtime credence, not when it is said only in 2006 when Plushenko had no competition so that just means they consider you more potential competition than no competition. In 2005-2006 Plushenko was winning all events he completed by 30-40 points so being the one who could potentially cause Plushenko the most worry if you got your act together, isnt a very tall hurdle to clear during those couple years.

 

[Triple loop]

I'm going to say Rosalynn Sumners during her amateur career. Dick Button and Peggy Fleming always praised her for being the one who balanced artistry and athleticism in women's skating. She was artistic indeed but she failed on her triple jumps when it mattered. A case in point was her performance in her 1984 Olympic short and long programs. She doubled must of her triples and singled her double axels. She was very fortunate to get that silver medal. Her strength was the compulsory figures, not free skating.

 

[Erin]

Sandhu didnt show much versatility and mostly only skated to tradional classical programs with heavy overbearing pieces of music, similar to someone like Urmanov.

Excellent point. I have always thought of Cirque du Soleil, Safri Duo, tangos, Henry Mancini, the Propellerheads, and mambo music as being traditional classical. Not to mention the original composition by Gordon Cobb. I assume we are only speaking of his competitive programs. Otherwise I would also have to add such artists as Justin Timberlake and Prince to the list of traditional classical pieces.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I'm going to say Rosalynn Sumners during her amateur career. Dick Button and Peggy Fleming always praised her for being the one who balanced artistry and athleticism in women's skating. She was artistic indeed but she failed on her triple jumps when it mattered. A case in point was her performance in her 1984 Olympic short and long programs. She doubled must of her triples and singled her double axels. She was very fortunate to get that silver medal. Her strength was the compulsory figures, not free skating.

100% agreed! Although I am glad Dick atleast didnt try to debate there being a "controversy" of her loss at the 84 Olympics when it was a 5-4 split. Which is what he usually always does when an American loses 5-4 or by a tenth of a point regardless its merits, maybe even he knew she was gifted and lucky to even come that close with that particular skate.

 

[UGG]

I don't really consider World and Olympic Champions "over hyped", but possibly they could be "over praised".

When I think of "over hyped", I think of Caroline Zhang or Gracie Gold to some extent. They were both "the next best thing" and Ashley Wagner ended up having a more successful career than either of them. Caroline basically did nothing as a senior. Gracie,at least, has two national titles, and Olympic Bronze, and she went to Worlds 4 times.

I think Sasha was over hyped and over praised because everyone and their brother was saying she was "the "greatest skater in the world" and anticipated multiple World Championships and possibly Olympic Champion, but she couldn't even win her own Nationals and Kimmie Meissner beat her at Worlds. I mean how great can she really be?

Emily Hughes was kind of over hyped due to being Sarah's sister. I don't think she would have gotten the attention she did if it was not for Sarah. She would have been in Bebe Lang world.

I think skaters can seem to be over praised without being over hyped- such as Kwan. She has 9 National Titles, 5 World Champion Titles, 9 World medals, 11 National podium medals, Olympic Gold and Silver, and she never placed lower than third from Fall 1995 until Worlds in 2005. I mean...sure Olympic Gold would help here but is someone really considered over hyped with that career?

 

[savchenkoboss]

I agree UGG, overpraised is probably a better word than overhyped, atleast for the extremely successful skaters who at times are overpraised. Those who are multiple World Champions or Olympic Champions.

Some of the ones who never truly made it can definitely be overhyped though.

I forgot about Emily Hughes. Yes she was definitely overhyped due to just being a Hughes. Although interestingly I far preferred some aspects of her skating to her far more successful sister- way better lutz entrance, much cleaner toe jump takeoffs, posture, exuberance and a far more extroverted performance quality, higher jumps. If you could have transferred the best qualities of Emily's skating to Sarah, Sarah probably would have totally dominated or atleast won much more often and been a much more consistent equal rival to Kwan/Slutskaya than she did in 2000-2003. Emily had a few of the things in her skating her more famous older sister lacked, even though she herself never was going to make it big time. They needed to combine the two of them into one skater. Here is one of Emily's best performances, and you can see certain things she did do much better than Sarah in her skating, even though she was never nowhere near as consistent or polished a skater overall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyB_5qFjqZg

And you can hear Dick previewing before her triple lutz what a big and technically strong jump it would be, which you would never hear him doing for Sarah, LOL!

 

[UGG]

I prefer Emily to Sarah also. Emily was just more...fluid. And she had great flexibility...something that Sarah did not have. Honestly Sarah was just in the right place at the right time. Her 4th place short program was a fluke with the ordinals all over the place resulting in 4th and then she randomly skated the best skate of her career when Irina and Michelle skated the worst they had skated all year, and she needed Michelle to place below Irina to win...something that had not happened in the previous 2 world championships. Being able to stand up to pressure of course is part of the game but she did not control her own destiny. I honestly don't think she was skating for gold at that point, especially when she won how both her and Robin acted as if aliens had given them a million dollars. Although the ordinals did flip so that I guess could have had something to do with it LOL.

 

[Mozart]

Elvis.

 

[WillyElliot]

I feel like that excuse is almost as much BS as the ghosts in the hotel room one.

Thank you Erin! So true. Didn't he go to Worlds after the Olympics and he bombed? And then he kept bombing with only a few excellent performances sprinkled about. I'm sure if Eman went to the Olys and bombed and then had the same career, people would be saying how going to the Olys put sooooo much pressure on him that he never recovered. Excuses, excuses. It came down to poor technique and from all accounts extremely poor coaching and training habits. I wish people would put that silly excuse to rest, really.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Oksana,and it's not even close.

-BB

 

[overedge]

Since Bourne & Kraatz came 4th in Nagano Olympics, did not medal, there MUST be bloc judging, it isnt even a question, and everyone should accept it and ban ice dance from the Olympics. According to CBS and TSN.

You must have been watching a different TSN or CBS ( do you mean CBC?) Because like pretty much everyone else they agreed that B&K ended up fourth because of a big mistake (him falling) at the end of the free dance. Sorry to ruin all your Canadian bias conspiracy theories.

I have multiple close friends in Vancouver who have seen the training of McLeod first hand, and are very familiar with the going ons at that rink, one was even employed there in another position for a number of years, and can testify she is a pretty awful coach. A nice women

Calling BS on this too. Anyone who truly is "familiar with the goings on at that rink" or who worked there would not say she is a nice woman. And c'mon her bad coaching has been discussed here in great detail for many years. You don't have to make up testimony from fake friends to give you credibility on that issue. This is like saying you know a lot of priests who have told you the Pope is Catholic, or that your friend who is a renowned biology professor says that bears poop in the woods.

 

[Japanfan]

You might've liked Riverdance for its entertainment value but there really wasn't any technical complexity in it.

Sorry, I meant to say 'regardless of its level of technical complexity'.

I have no opinion on B&K's placements for the most part as ice dance was so new to me at the time and no desire to argue about so-called Canadian conspiracies. And ice dance largely bored me as a discipline for many years because the rankings and Russian dominance were so predictable. When I attended Worlds in 2001 there was no movement at all through all three phases of the dance competition and I was one of many audience members who left before the medal ceremony.

And I did feel that G&P were overhyped. Among Russians dance teams K&P still remain my favorite.

 

[Japanfan]

It's also hard to tell how being kept off the 1998 Olympic team might have affected him...

IIRC he said it was emotionally devastating and had a negative impact on the rest of his career.

That may seem over the top, but I think there could be some truth in it as he was a very insecure young man. I did an interview with him when he was just 17, at a time when I was publishing some articles about FS. It was clear that he was a bit troubled, though for the most part I really liked him.

I feel like that excuse is almost as much BS as the ghosts in the hotel room one.

Loved loved loved the ghost in the hotel. IIRC, there was only one.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Sorry, I meant to say 'regardless of its level of technical complexity'.

I have no opinion on B&K's placements for the most part as ice dance was so new to me at the time and no desire to argue about so-called Canadian conspiracies. And ice dance largely bored me as a discipline for many years because the rankings and Russian dominance were so predictable. When I attended Worlds in 2001 there was no movement at all through all three phases of the dance competition and I was one of many audience members who left before the medal ceremony.

And I did feel that G&P were overhyped. Among Russians dance teams K&P still remain my favorite.

I attended the 2001 World Championships at GM Place, too. The mass exodus after B & K missed the podium was impressive.

Even though I never really took to their March With Me free program (created by who else but Tatiana Tarasova), to their credit, Shae-Lynne & Victor skated the hell out of it.

 

[Japanfan]

The mass exodus after B & K missed the podium was impressive.

That wasn't why I left. The issue was that there was no movement through all three phases of the dance competition, which made it seem obvious that the results were pre-determined.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

That wasn't why I left. The issue was that there was no movement through all three phases of the dance competition, which made it seem obvious that the results were pre-determined.

In my section at least, a lot of people felt Bourne & Kraatz should have taken bronze over Lobacheva & Averbukh. From memory, the Russian's free skate was untidy.

Back before IJS in the 1980s at least, it was pretty standard for teams to remain locked in the same position from the first compulsory dance through to the free.

 

[gk_891]

Sorry, I meant to say 'regardless of its level of technical complexity'.

I have no opinion on B&K's placements for the most part as ice dance was so new to me at the time and no desire to argue about so-called Canadian conspiracies. And ice dance largely bored me as a discipline for many years because the rankings and Russian dominance were so predictable. When I attended Worlds in 2001 there was no movement at all through all three phases of the dance competition and I was one of many audience members who left before the medal ceremony.

And I did feel that G&P were overhyped. Among Russians dance teams K&P still remain my favorite.

There was no Russian dominance at the 2001 Worlds. An Italian team took first, a French team took second, and a Russian team only finished third. Lobacheva & Averbukh bored me to tears but I have no issue with them placing ahead of Bourne & Kraatz, especially since B&K took a deduction in the free dance when they clearly lost unison during an important section of the program. I actually thought both Drobiazko & Vanagas (in spite of returning to an old free dance which reeked of desperation) and Denkova & Staviski (who only finished a disappointing tenth) should've finished ahead of Bourne & Kraatz at those Worlds, at least in the free dance.

North American commentators were often very negative on G&P and didn't overhype them at all. Many fans might not have liked them per se whether it be because of her personality, her fling with Zhulin, or some of the terrible material Linichuk gave them. But their abilities speak for themselves as they demonstrated in many of their programs and many of their compulsories. With the exception of 1994, they were the clear class of the fields in 1993 and 1995-1998. The one team who did come close to them when it came to abilities and content was Anissina & Peizerat even though they were kept behind a clearly inferior Bourne & Kraatz for a while until the 97-98 season.

 

[honey]

I prefer Emily to Sarah also. Emily was just more...fluid. And she had great flexibility...something that Sarah did not have.

I’m not exactly a fan of Sarah Hughes, but to say she didn’t have flexibility? Her spiral is a heck of a lot more pleasing than Emily’s, as she’s not bent over with her upper body.

https://goo.gl/images/fWrCQ5
https://goo.gl/images/qqMCfn

Sarah also had a very nice Y spin. I actually think her flexibility was one of her best qualities, but she lacked control of it the way Sasha had and it translated into a wobbly look on the ice.

Despite all this, I preferred Emily to Sarah as well . I don’t really think Emily was overhyped though...it was just a good story that the alternate for Kwan happened to be the sister of the reigning Olympic gold medalist. I don’t really remember anyone hyping her up as a contender during or after the 2006 games though?

 

[soogar]

Count me in as an Emily fan as well. Not only was she more fluid but she was already skating with an adult body when she made the Olympic team. Sarah never retained her abilities as her body developed.

 

[savchenkoboss]

You must have been watching a different TSN or CBS ( do you mean CBC?) Because like pretty much everyone else they agreed that B&K ended up fourth because of a big mistake (him falling) at the end of the free dance.

Haha dope, that was at the 2002 Olympics. You cant even get your years right. Another for my ignore list.

And no I meant CBS, the network covering the 98 Olympics for the U.S, which had even more B&K griping than the joint networks splitting Canadian coverage. I was not even referring to strictly Canadian coverage or Canadian bias, but then again you wouldnt be aware of that when you cant even figure out which Olympics is which.

 

[tony]

I remember an early Caroline Zhang JGP video being posted and everyone going crazy over her potential, but many people failed to see the (glaring) technical issues that ultimately kept her from ever really progressing.

But, in terms of US/North American TV, I have to go with Bourne/Kraatz from 1997-2000ish. Even the US television stations were trying to shove in conspiracy theories whenever they could, until Judy Blumberg got her shot at analyzing their OD from 1998, that is. And then when it seemed to all be done, Lifetime television picked up pairs/dance portion the Grand Prix series in 1999-2000 and when it involved B/K, it was like another soap opera being played out. Shae was the original K&C eye-roller, and at the Cup of Russia that season, the cameras stayed on them forever after the FD IIRC and Dubova and Shae spend a good 2 minutes whining about the marks. BTW, that FD was simply awful.

 

[gk_891]

Haha dope, that was at the 2002 Olympics. You cant even get your years right. Another for my ignore list.

And no I meant CBS, the network covering the 98 Olympics for the U.S, which had even more B&K griping than the joint networks splitting Canadian coverage. I was not even referring to strictly Canadian coverage or Canadian bias, but then again you wouldnt be aware of that when you cant even figure out which Olympics is which.

The most disappointing thing for me was that Tracy Wilson gave a relatively recent interview (below) and she still maintains that Bourne & Kraatz should've had a chance at a medal in Nagano. But I don't see how that could've been the case. They made multiple errors in both of the compulsory dances (Tracy should've seen those errors too - she either willfully ignored them or she's not as knowledgeable as she leads people to believe), they had the easiest OD out of all the teams in the top 10, and their free dance was skated entirely side by side. I can't see how the judges could consider them for medals when other teams were clearly better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1xAW1Yaxk

Some of the stuff she says about G&P vs K&O is also disappointing too. Because while her criticisms of their rock'n'roll free dance were very fair, her 'concerns' about Memorial Requiem made me snort a bit. Whether one liked the program or not, it demonstrated much more of the stuff she supposedly liked (difficulty, content) way more so than K&O's Carmen did. K&O's Carmen had pitiful content relative to not only G&P but also the free dances of Anissina & Peizerat and Punsulan & Swallow.

 

[gk_891]

I remember an early Caroline Zhang JGP video being posted and everyone going crazy over her potential, but many people failed to see the (glaring) technical issues that ultimately kept her from ever really progressing.

But, in terms of US/North American TV, I have to go with Bourne/Kraatz from 1997-2000ish. Even the US television stations were trying to shove in conspiracy theories whenever they could, until Judy Blumberg got her shot at analyzing their OD from 1998, that is. And then when it seemed to all be done, Lifetime television picked up pairs/dance portion the Grand Prix series in 1999-2000 and when it involved B/K, it was like another soap opera being played out. Shae was the original K&C eye-roller, and at the Cup of Russia that season, the cameras stayed on them forever during the FD IIRC and Dubova and Shae spend a good 2 minutes whining about the marks. BTW, that FD was simply awful.

What really struck me about their reactions in the K&C area was that Dubova's only feedback to them was that the marks were a joke. They really seemed blind to what they had to work on.

And yes, Judy Blumberg's commentary on their OD in 1998 was amazing! It was very gratifying to finally hear a commentator call this team out on their lack of content. The one thing I disagreed with her on was that they were capable of the most difficult footwork but they didn't show it here. I don't think they had such capabilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17KVjJJpups

 

[overedge]

In my section at least, a lot of people felt Bourne & Kraatz should have taken bronze over Lobacheva & Averbukh. From memory, the Russian's free skate was untidy.

Back before IJS in the 1980s at least, it was pretty standard for teams to remain locked in the same position from the first compulsory dance through to the free.

The worst was Fusar-Poli and Margaglio placing so high in the compulsory dances despite him being noticeably off the beat. The walkout definitely wasn't a "B&K should have won" walkout - it was a protest against the blatant fixing of the placements overall.

 

[overedge]

@savchenkoboss Save your insults for your imaginary friends at Joanne McLeod's rink.

Plus you've already said in other threads that I was going on your ignore list. So I guess your ignore list is imaginary too.

 

[savchenkoboss]

The most disappointing thing for me was that Tracy Wilson gave a relatively recent interview (below) and she still maintains that Bourne & Kraatz should've had a chance at a medal in Nagano. But I don't see how that could've been the case. They made multiple errors in both of the compulsory dances (Tracy should've seen those errors too - she either willfully ignored them or she's not as knowledgeable as she leads people to believe), they had the easiest OD out of all the teams in the top 10, and their free dance was skated entirely side by side. I can't see how the judges could consider them for medals when other teams were clearly better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1xAW1Yaxk

Some of the stuff she says about G&P vs K&O is also disappointing too. Because while her criticisms of their rock'n'roll free dance were very fair, her 'concerns' about Memorial Requiem made me snort a bit. Whether one liked the program or not, it demonstrated much more of the stuff she supposedly liked (difficulty, content) way more so than K&O's Carmen did. K&O's Carmen had pitiful content relative to not only G&P but also the free dances of Anissina & Peizerat and Punsulan & Swallow.

I was a big Bourne & Kraatz around that time and was heartbroken they didnt medal but I think the results were right as well. They repeated the same error on every pattern of the Golden Waltz, so while the rest of the dance was excellent, 5th place was generous if anything since that should have been numerous deductions. How on earth someone can repeat the same error on the same move in a dance their coach created is beyond me.

Their 2nd CD was quite good and should have probably placed higher than 4th, especialy as Krylova & Ovsiannikov were pretty poor here.

Their OD though was pretty awful and should have been lower than 4th.

Their FD at 3rd over A&P was generous enough.

If anyone was robbed by any bloc judging it was Punsalen & Swallow who should have finished 5th overall, if not maybe 4th over Bourne & Kraatz. Their 1st CD and FD were many places underplaced, even if their 2nd CD and OD had small errors and werent great.

I did love the concept of Riverdance and it could have been brilliant, but they needed to incorporate less side by side skating. The side by side sections of toe tapping footwork moving along the ice in unision were fine, as long as they were balanced out by more other sections in proper dance holds and close together.

 

[savchenkoboss]

What really struck me about their reactions in the K&C area was that Dubova's only feedback to them was that the marks were a joke. They really seemed blind to what they had to work on.

And yes, Judy Blumberg's commentary on their OD in 1998 was amazing! It was very gratifying to finally hear a commentator call this team out on their lack of content. The one thing I disagreed with her on was that they were capable of the most difficult footwork but they didn't show it here. I don't think they had such capabilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17KVjJJpups

The North American really robbed of an Olympic medal in dance was Judy Blumberg. Their 4th at the 84 Games was a farce. She was so classy about it though, always a class act, an incredible skater, interviewer and an incredible commentator. I love her so much. I love her commentary of pro events, especialy the World Pros, for many years.

It is funny how she mentions though the judges who was the split judge to cost them the bronze to K&P at the 84 Games was the exact same Italian judge who cost them silver at the 83 Worlds to B&B. The politics were definitely against them, as if it wasnt already tough enough for them to face unbeatable T&D and a slew of all time great Russians.