War in Israel

[Buzz]

My heart goes out to the victims and their loved ones. I am just at a lost for words.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Horrifying, and I fear for what will come next. I hope a way will be found to minimize the suffering. May you and yours continue to be safe @PRlady, @TAHbKA, @MsZem, @Andrey aka Pushkin.

 

[TAHbKA]

Tagging @reut who is in Israel as well

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

One thing I must give us: Israelis are awfully good at emergency organizing.

The blood donations had to stop because within 3 hours the hospitals declared they don't need any more; the strangled youth from the South who got stuck in Haifa got so much donations within half an hour, they asked to stop it; there's already a memorial being erected in Tel Aviv to these murdered in this attack. Mr.Andrey is called to the reservist service, and I volunteered to be called at my emergency unit (I'm too old I volunteered for 3 years and decided to stop this January, wow, that was some nifty timing...). On the positive side, got messages from people all around the globe, that's heartwarming

 

[Lynn226]

@Andrey aka Pushkin I hope Mr. Andrey will be safe on reserve duty.

@PRlady I heard a tv commentator also say this is like 9/11 in the scope of the attack. How dreadful. My heart goes out to everyone in Israel and those who have loved ones there.

 

[TAHbKA]

Mean while in the government:
Minister of finances: hit Hammas with all the curelty and do not take the hostage into an account. We have to be cruel like in Eastwood's movie `if you want to shoot, shoot, don't walk'
Minister of information: am not sure what am I allowed to say, I need a special clerk to explain me.
Minister of energy: we are disconnecting Gaza from the electricity

So one thinks the government, the war and the lives of the hostages are a movie, the other explains the prime minister she is a useless idiot and asks for a babysitter, the 3rd one assumes a humanitarian collapse in one of the mostly densily populated places in the world is a solution. I can't even....

 

[Vash01]

I was about to post this in The PI forum,but I saw this thread in OTBT.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/israel-hamas-rocket-attack-what-we-know-intl/index.html

This sounds huge, possibly leading to a war. It must be so scary there!

The world needs peace, not war, but I can't blame Israel for retaliating. They have been fighting for their existence ever since the country was created. I am glad that Biden wasted no time in supporting Israel. I have no sympathy for Hamas. It is a militant group that does not accept peace treaties.

 

[millyskate]

There are no words to describe the world right now. My thoughts immediately went to FSUers in Israel. I am sorry for this horrific situation.

 

[Vash01]

I am very sad to hear and read what is happening in Israel. Loss of human life is always sad, and Israel has a special place in my heart. I loved the country and the people when I made a business trip there in 1994.

I am relieved that fsuers there are safe but my heart goes out to those who lost their lives.

Historian Michael Beschloss is telling some interesting stories right now.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

 

[pollyanna]

I don’t even have words, this is so horrific. Praying for the safety of all our FSUers, they were the first I thought of

 

[Vash01]

@Andrey aka Pushkin I hope Mr. Andrey will be safe on reserve duty.

@PRlady I heard a tv commentator also say this is like 9/11 in the scope of the attack. How dreadful. My heart goes out to everyone in Israel and those who have loved ones there.

I agree with those who say it is much bigger in scope for Israel than 9/11 was for us. Israel is a much smaller country so even a small number of victims is big for them. People are afraid, from what I am watching on tv.

 

[HeatherC]

How heartbreaking. Sending all my love and prayers to the victims and their families. I am very glad to see that our FSU folks in the area have already checked in here. Please stay safe.

 

[Kasey]

Keeping Israel and especially our FSUers in my thoughts, and I hope this ends quickly.

 

[Vash01]

"A Pearl Harbor moment"- Joshua Berlinger

It seems Israel was caught off guard. I am sure they will retaliate In a big way. However, the hostage situation could make it complicated.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/israel-gaza-border-security-intl/index.html

 

[skipaway]

Horrified for all of Israel. I especially hope all our FSUers stay safe.

 

[Cachoo]

I find the attack so shocking but then eight men brought down the World Trade Center with utility knives and we were clueless. How awful for those that were brutally killed.

 

[MsZem]

Watching the news, they're interviewing family members looking for relatives who were at a party and have been missing for more than 24 hours. There's no official word, nothing to help them. They want to know where the state is. Where it was while this happened.

The official count is now over 350 people killed. The videos of people taken to Gaza are appalling.

I don't know what to say anymore.

 

[Finnice]

It sounds horrible. Stay safe, my Israeli FSU friends! I hope this ends soon. Thank you for your reports!

 

[TAHbKA]

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

We used to be. Think its safe to say we are an authocraty just like Turkey

 

[MsZem]

This is an incredible story:

Retired IDF major general recounts rescuing his family in Nahal Oz

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

A sixty-year old retired general had to come in from Tel Aviv to help rescue his son's family. I'm watching an interview with him right now and he is as cool as a cucumber, as one might expect. Gives a ton of credit to the younger soldiers he fought alongside with.

 

[PRlady]

What I’m sensing on the news (I get about half the Hebrew although percentage is growing by the hour) is national outrage. At the government. At the army and police who still haven’t routed Hamas from the border communities. At those who don’t or will never serve in the army. At the fact that 3500 (!) people were at a nature party in the south Friday night and had to run for their lives and we still don’t know where some are.

It’s human nature to look for someone to blame in a catastrophe but this isn’t an act of god like an earthquake. My DH hopes this crisis will break the stasis in resolving the conflict by proving to Israelis that it can’t be “managed” and must be resolved. I’m not so optimistic.

 

[MsZem]

What I’m sensing on the news (I get about half the Hebrew although percentage is growing by the hour) is national outrage. At the government. At the army and police who still haven’t routed Hamas from the border communities. At those who don’t or will never serve in the army. At the fact that 3500 (!) people were at a nature party in the south Friday night and had to run for their lives and we still don’t know where some are.

It’s human nature to look for someone to blame in a catastrophe but this isn’t an act of god like an earthquake. My DH hopes this crisis will break the stasis in resolving the conflict by proving to Israelis that it can’t be “managed” and must be resolved. I’m not so optimistic.

There's anger first and foremost at Bibi and the government. Less so, but a lot of anger at the military/security/intelligence apparatus that failed to recognize what was happen. Lots of respect for the soldiers, cops and reservists out there fighting; the names of the fallen are being released, and it's clear that the people in the south fought and were let down badly by our leadership. Are being let down by it.

The conflict cannot be resolved with Hamas as a partner because Hamas will never be a partner.

 

[ballettmaus]

I've had no words since last night; it's just horrible. And heartbreaking - it seems that half the world is suffering from natural disasters while the other half is involved in some kind of violent conflict.

I'm glad to hear that all FSUers are safe. I hope it stays that way and that your families stay safe as well.

 

[Dobre]

Are they speculating about the possibility of Russia backing this attack by Hamas? I'm seeing a lot of it in the posts that I've run across today, but this is in part due to the specific focus of posters that I've been following due to the war in Ukraine. (Off of FSU, I only follow one poster whose particular emphasis has been the Middle East & she has been busy today covering the events right now rather than speculating about the causes). Still some of the others' posts regarding the possibility of Russian involvement are disturbing, not only the quotes from Russian propagandists who would likely try to make hay out of any tragedy; but also references to a meeting between Hamas and Lavrov back in March and, of course, references to Iran's recent partnership with Russia and provision of drones to its war effort.

It seemed obvious that one of the reasons Israel was reluctant to get involved in Ukraine's defense efforts, was Israel's own position within the Middle East, well armed but physically separated from its allies and surrounded by so many non-allies.

----

On a personal note, this whole attack seems so awful. My heart goes out to the Israeli people, especially those who have lost friends or family or have friends or family currently in danger. Also, I support a discussion I ran into today pointing out that the facets of the Geneva Convention have got to be fully supported and enforced. These assaults on civilians in multiple countries are horrifying.

 

[TAHbKA]

Are they speculating about the possibility of Russia backing this attack by Hamas?

Russia did not back this attack, it had been backing and funding Hamas for ages. Either directly or through Iran. My impression is that the current shit (not only here, but generally in the world) is a result of `Ho, it's ok to invade the neighbour country and everyone will just condone, say be a good boy, don't do it and that's it? Hey, let's give it a try, if Russia could perhaps we can as well!'.
Israel's failure in intelligence and the army is well... would love to blame Russia, but, well, no.

 

[TAHbKA]

This is an incredible story:

Retired IDF major general recounts rescuing his family in Nahal Oz

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

A sixty-year old retired general had to come in from Tel Aviv to help rescue his son's family. I'm watching an interview with him right now and he is as cool as a cucumber, as one might expect. Gives a ton of credit to the younger soldiers he fought alongside with.

I think it was Arestovich saying `behing every personal heroic act there is a failure of the system'.

 

[Lynn226]

Hezbollah has fired upon Israel.

Shooting from Lebanon into northern Israel, IDF responds with artillery - I24NEWS

In response to the incident, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) promptly launched artillery fire into the affected region. No casualties have been reported

www.i24news.tv

 

[PRlady]

If Hezbollah joins in fully it’s a disaster. They are very well-armed by Iran. And it’s the mullahs making decisions.

Hamas will never be a partner but Israel has cynically strengthened them at the expense of the PA since it was clear 15 years ago that Abbas could be a partner. Now it’s too late for him and possibly for the corrupt PA. The extremists on both sides will do anything to prevent an agreement.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Nothing significant in the North so far (since I can see Lebanon from my window, I'd know )

3 guys of my team at work, as well as my brother, have been called to the service too. I think it's a given we're up for a ground offence, and I think the tone of the newspapers will change very quickly once the Palestinian casualties will start to arrive. The country is in a state of deep depression, the streets are empty, people are not in the mood. I sense a lot of rage towards the government, but my bubble is not consisting of Bibists, so I guess there might be different slogans. In general, army is the sacred cow of Israel, so it would be super unpopular to blame it for the failures, and the lower the rank is, the more sympathetic people are.

The analysts say it's the result of Netanyahu's policy of strengthening Hammas as it allowed him not to make any peace talks with the WB, and team himself up with the extreme right. But I'm sure he will shift the blame, plus it might be my bias too. There are talks about national unity government, but Netanyahu is not willing to give up on the extremists as it will fail him after this war is over; and the opposition is suggesting to make a lean centrist government, which is what the country wants and needs, but not what Netanyahu wants and needs. So we'll see.

 

[paskatefan]

Prayers for Israel!