War in Israel

Allskate

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CNN had someone on ground in Gaza but they may have pulled her for safety reasons.


I understand if a news agency pulls reporters from Gaza for safety reasons, but they then have to be even more restrained and careful in their reporting. The MSNBC reporter was particularly bad. He wasn't just reporting on what Hamas claimed. When IDF said it was an errant rocket from Gaza, he basically rejected the assertion, saying that he didn't think Israel is a credible source. (But HAMAS is credible?) And this was almost immediate from a guy who is not in Gaza. These unsubstantiated reports based on the assertions of a terrorist organization are dangerous. The NY Times says that they report information as they receive it. But, if the information is baseless accusations and it takes time to get the real evidence or even a defense, that approach causes harm.
 

starrynight

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I had a conversation with a work colleague today who told me that she is very concerned about this whole situation spiralling as her son is in the army (Australian). Both her uncle and father fought in Afghanistan and Iraq so she knows exactly how bad war is.

A lot of stuff would have to go wrong for this to escalate to the point of Allied boots on the ground in the Middle East. But what would probably trigger something is a serious linked terror attack in the US or UK.

And that’s why the international media stirring the pot for clicks is concerning me.
 

Vash01

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Apparently it is too much to ask. I'm not naive. I know that certain media outlets and people in that region would accept what Hamas claims no matter what the evidence and other reports. And I know that there even are some Hamas apologists and supporters in the U.S. who will. But, I really do wish that at least mainstream reporters in the West would be more restrained and responsible. There were tv reporters who were not only immediately reporting Hamas claims about the cause and numbers of casualties but expressing their belief without evidence. The BBC seems even worse. They not only assumed that it was Israel who was responsible for the explosion but also started a broadcast by flatly stating that hundreds were dead (with no source). Their reporters weren't even reporting from Gaza. Their tone seemed dramatic and likely to inflame as well. Some of it may be bias, but some of it is probably just to get eyeballs.

I'm wondering if there are any reputable reporters on the ground in Gaza that can report on what is happening. Most of the American network and BBC reporters who are reporting on Gaza are actually reporting from places like Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, not Gaza.



Because Hamas is so good at math and so credible? ;)


Yesterday on Nicolle Wallace's show Jeremy Bash really grilled our media for rushing to report without gathering information. He was quite animated (very unusual for him) and Nicoll had to reign him in. I agree that the western media rushed to pass judgement without investigating. That is poor journalism. BBC was horrible. They even reported that it was clearly an Israeli rocket.
 
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Vash01

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Saw a heart breaking news headline on cnn.com. AnAmerican-Israeli woman And her grand daughter who were kidnapped from their kibbutz were found dead. I know there are many such tragic stories. Hamas must be destroyed, not just for revenge,but to protect innocent civilians.
 

rfisher

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Israeli TV is reporting that European sources are confirming the number of hospital fatalities as 10-50.
I listened to an NPR report from a Palestinian physician who was claiming over 1,000 babies were killed in the blast. My first thought was that was a really, really big hospital to have that many babies. Even the biggest children's hospital in the US wouldn't have that many patients. And, yet nobody went hmmmm....when she was making a clearly highly exaggerated claim of fatalities.

Of course they then went to a report that said there was a small crater in the parking lot and a few damaged vehicles so I guess they did try to balance the coverage. Most of the fatalities were apparently from the vehicle shrapnel to people who were in the parking lot or surrounding houses. A bomb in the parking lot might have shattered glass on lower floors, but wouldn't destroy the building or cause thousands of infant deaths.
 

Lynn226

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The U.S. Navy intercepted a missile fired from Yemen headed in the general direction of Israel. Too early to tell what the exact target was.

 

Lynn226

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US Navy gets into the mix. Oh dear…
Before, they were just standing by.

We were posting at the same time.

This cannot help the already difficult situation. My thoughts are with our Israeli FSUers and anyone with loved ones in the region.
 

starrynight

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I just read this and honestly I cried a little.


I read that Hamas did terrible things to the Nepali and Thai workers it tortured and murdered. And that testimony from a Nepalese family who spoke how hard they worked to support their son to go to Israel for a farming education program and now they have nothing really upsets me.

I’m a little raw from this I have had to listen to a bit of ‘Israel is far worse than Hamas’ talk at my workplace.

And then there’s these tragic stories of terrorists destroying families from Thailand and Nepal - when these workers and students were just trying to work to help their families.
 

Vash01

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I just read this and honestly I cried a little.


I read that Hamas did terrible things to the Nepali and Thai workers it tortured and murdered. And that testimony from a Nepalese family who spoke how hard they worked to support their son to go to Israel for a farming education program and now they have nothing really upsets me.

I’m a little raw from this I have had to listen to a bit of ‘Israel is far worse than Hamas’ talk at my workplace.

And then there’s these tragic stories of terrorists destroying families from Thailand and Nepal - when these workers and students were just trying to work to help their families.

Hamas is The worst. They had no business torturing and killing students from Nepal and Thailand. I hope karma comes back to Hamas. Unfortunately Karma can be very slow.

My heart goes out to the families of these students.
 
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tony

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17,799
I can’t keep up with the amount of misinformation that has been put out there by Hamas at this point, and how people were so quick to think ‘well Israel obviously did it because they said they were going to do it’. I’m also continuing to be fascinated by the politics of all of it playing out in the USA and how many liberals will just not give it up with the Free Palestine stuff, telling other liberals and Democrats in general that they are a combination of choice words for sympathizing with Israel and the initial attack. I also don’t get Republicans going after Biden and his response to support Israel, because it’s actually something most Republican leaders have agreed with. Trump certainly would have done the same, and Haley/DeSantis have made their views very clear.

Hamas is The worst. They had no business torturing and killing students from Nepal and Thailand. I hope karma comes back to Hamas. Unfortunately Karna can be very slow.

My heart goes out to the families of these students.
It is karma. If you’re going to speak so passionately about karma, you should know how to spell it.

/Sarcasm off for the weekend.
 

Allskate

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I listened to an NPR report from a Palestinian physician who was claiming over 1,000 babies were killed in the blast. My first thought was that was a really, really big hospital to have that many babies. Even the biggest children's hospital in the US wouldn't have that many patients. And, yet nobody went hmmmm....when she was making a clearly highly exaggerated claim of fatalities.

Of course they then went to a report that said there was a small crater in the parking lot and a few damaged vehicles so I guess they did try to balance the coverage. Most of the fatalities were apparently from the vehicle shrapnel to people who were in the parking lot or surrounding houses. A bomb in the parking lot might have shattered glass on lower floors, but wouldn't destroy the building or cause thousands of infant deaths.
"Balanced?" No. I have never bought the idea that, if you let two opposing people speak, it is balanced. If someone says that the moon is made out of cheese and another says it is not or explains some scientific fact about Mars, that is not balanced coverage. That is absurd. If this is what NPR did, then that is irresponsible. Even Hamas has not claimed that 1,000 people died in the blast, much less 1,000 babies.

Yesterday on Nicoll Wallace's show Jeremy Bash really grilled our media for rushing to report without gathering information. He was quite animated (very unusual for him) and Nicoll had to reign him in.
I didn't see that, but I think that Nicolle Wallace herself deserved to be grilled. Raf Sanchez engaged in reckless and baseless "reporting" on her show. He deserves all the criticism coming his way and Nicolle should be asked what she is going to do in the future to prevent such biased and irresponsible "reporting" by correspondents on her show.
 

Vash01

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"Balanced?" No. I have never bought the idea that, if you let two opposing people speak, it is balanced. If someone says that the moon is made out of cheese and another says it is not or explains some scientific fact about Mars, that is not balanced coverage. That is absurd. If this is what NPR did, then that is irresponsible. Even Hamas has not claimed that 1,000 people died in the blast, much less 1,000 babies.


I didn't see that, but I think that Nicolle Wallace herself deserved to be grilled. Raf Sanchez engaged in reckless and baseless "reporting" on her show. He deserves all the criticism coming his way and Nicolle should be asked what she is going to do in the future to prevent such biased and irresponsible "reporting" by correspondents on her show.
I missed the RAF Sanchez part Of the show.
 

Vash01

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Israeli TV is reporting that European sources are confirming the number of hospital fatalities as 10-50.
Huge difference between 10-50 and 500 (reported by Hamas, likely to file up the Islamic nations into a frenzy).
 
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Vash01

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US Navy gets into the mix. Oh dear…
Before, they were just standing by.

This is getting scarier by the day. Iran does not get into the fight; their proxies do it. I just hope this does not escalate, but that May be unavoidable as long as more players enter.
 

becca

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I think we are in for a lot of unintended consequences with this war. My political Spidey sense has been tingling off the charts for more than a week. I don’t know if @Andrey aka Pushkin ’s WW1 analogy is accurate but I did read The Sleepwalkers about how that war started with a lot of little errors and hostilities.

I’m personally ready to explode from tension and it’s pretty obvious most others here are as well.
I have been concerned about running into World War I for a long time. No one seems to want to deescalate any more

Part of World War I was all kinds of alliances developing and then all it took was a powder keg moment (Austria-Hungarys heir being killed.

It’s honestly the war that keeps on giving because a lot of the borders in the Middle East were designed to ensure conflict
 

ktfrozen

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I'm not providing opinions, but I can clarify that the status of organizations like Hamas can vary depending on different countries and their policies. Some nations and international bodies classify Hamas as a terrorist organization, while others do not. It's important to check with the specific government or organization you are inquiring about for their official stance.
 

TAHbKA

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I'm not providing opinions, but I can clarify that the status of organizations like Hamas can vary depending on different countries and their policies. Some nations and international bodies classify Hamas as a terrorist organization, while others do not. It's important to check with the specific government or organization you are inquiring about for their official stance.
Of course. It's very important to make sure not to call terrorists terrorists because their feelings may be hurt.
I will assume you are not from an Arab speaking or Iran and the only language you understand is English. Hamas is a terrorist organization in all the English countries. When things about them are being reported they should be called what they are - terrorists. We all here consume the English speaking news, yet somehow some still go out of their way to be politically correct towards the torturers and murderers
 

On My Own

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I will assume you are not from an Arab speaking or Iran and the only language you understand is English. Hamas is a terrorist organization in all the English countries.
The rest seems fair, but I will add for the bolded: it includes Malaysia. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...ts-wests-pressuring-attitude-to-condemn-hamas

Anwar said that Western officials have repeatedly asked Malaysia to condemn Hamas in meetings but his government “does not agree” with their attitude.
“I said that we, as a policy, have a relationship with Hamas from before, and this will continue,” Anwar said on Monday in remarks to parliament.
 
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Buzz

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Doubt we will ever know for sure the true number of dead at that hospital. What is known for sure is the vast majority of dead and injured on both sides are innocent civilians.
 
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text_skate

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I can’t keep up with the amount of misinformation that has been put out there by Hamas at this point, and how people were so quick to think ‘well Israel obviously did it because they said they were going to do it’.
I think one big part is the lack of knowledge of OSINT tools, lot of news organisations still don't have it, plus you need time to verify
Here is an interesting thread about "Some quick thoughts on why large parts of the mainstream media keep slipping up on Gaza/Israel (and why it was the same at times with Covid):The main reason is a failure to keep pace with modern news gathering techniques, but there’s more."

It helps to check on twitter, facebook et al. established OSINT accounts like Bellingcat, @Osinttechnical or @GeoConfirmed or watchdogs like Airwars.
 

TAHbKA

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I think one big part is the lack of knowledge of OSINT tools, lot of news organisations still don't have it, plus you need time to verify
Here is an interesting thread about "Some quick thoughts on why large parts of the mainstream media keep slipping up on Gaza/Israel (and why it was the same at times with Covid):The main reason is a failure to keep pace with modern news gathering techniques, but there’s more."

It helps to check on twitter, facebook et al. established OSINT accounts like Bellingcat, @Osinttechnical or @GeoConfirmed or watchdogs like Airwars.
I think it's really easier. We are all addicted to pleasures and emotional triggers. The best would be porn, of course, but since we are too moral for that (and some of us are too underage for that) we go for the war porn. That triggers our emotions on one hand and we feel moral on the other - we are not watching it for our pleasure! we are making our poor selves watch all these horrors so we can make an educated conclusion!
The news outlets compete for their audience and provide what we want. The terrorists have to overcome the autrocities of the previous ones if they want to make it to the news - just firing the rockets does not excite anyone anymore (as I type this message at least 6 villages in Jerusalem area are being bombed, but who cares, right?) so they become more horrible, the pictures are even more bloody and we get our triggers. Betweem all that checking the facts becomes kinda redundant - if they don't publish the horrors first someone else will and they'll become irrelevant.
 

text_skate

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I think it's really easier. We are all addicted to pleasures and emotional triggers. The best would be porn, of course, but since we are too moral for that (and some of us are too underage for that) we go for the war porn. That triggers our emotions on one hand and we feel moral on the other - we are not watching it for our pleasure! we are making our poor selves watch all these horrors so we can make an educated conclusion!
The news outlets compete for their audience and provide what we want. The terrorists have to overcome the autrocities of the previous ones if they want to make it to the news - just firing the rockets does not excite anyone anymore (as I type this message at least 6 villages in Jerusalem area are being bombed, but who cares, right?) so they become more horrible, the pictures are even more bloody and we get our triggers. Betweem all that checking the facts becomes kinda redundant - if they don't publish the horrors first someone else will and they'll become irrelevant.
Imo that's one (big) part, too, but not all people are addicted. Some people still prefer facts over gore, sex, crime, atrocities.
I doubt that publications, which claim they are facts-based would survive economically a "we trigger our readers" policy. Their reputation depends on being right. And with basic fact-checking you can be fast (probably not the fastest) and right. But you need the capabilities.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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Doubt we will ever know for sure the true number of dead at that hospital. What is known for sure is the vast majority of dead and injured on both sides are innocent civilians
We don't know that either.
There's a well documented number of casualties on the Israeli side, but out of the hundreds and thousands of dead on the Palestinian side, no one can say which one of them are Hammas militants and which are civilians. Not to mention this hospital incident tells us how these numbers are obtained in general.
 

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