U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

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GreatLakesGal said:
And remember why he left? Brian wanted Adam to do off-ice training and Adam didn't want to do that. (Phil Hersh wrote an article about their split.)

Then a few years ago Adam apparently finally figured out that, yes, he needed to do off-ice training. Imagine how much more he might have accomplished as a skater if he had listened to Orser instead of wasting years jumping from coach to coach.
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I disagree with you that everything would have worked out between Orser and Adam. There were underlying differences in personality and expectations. It's not a negative slant on either Adam or Orser. I'm sure they both learned and grew from the experience. As far as whether the split was strictly about off-ice training issues, I doubt it. Frankly, it's easy to spin reasons after-the-fact. I don't recall what if anything Adam ever said publicly about that coaching relationship. And it's certainly water under the bridge by now. :drama:

It's clearly easy for you to talk about a figure skater 'wasting years jumping from coach to coach.' :rolleyes: No experience, not even failure, is ever a waste if something is learned. See my previous post on this topic. Adam was not a frenetic 'coach-swapper.' And that label is too easily lodged against figure skaters, almost as freely as fans braying after every competition that so-and-so needs to leave their coach and go to another coach. :duh:

The bottom line for everyone, not just athletes, is to learn from every experience in order to make better choices, and to not stay in a situation that isn't working.
 
I wonder if Jason's alleged coaching change would mean he isn't training as much. He is the 1st alternate afterall. If not even he is ready, we have to resort back to Ross. And like I said about Ashley in the other thread, I hope he doesn't go, if his performance / placement is going to vindicate the committee's decision to send Vincent over him. (fine I am not the best person)
 
Marco said:
I wonder if Jason's alleged coaching change would mean he isn't training as much. He is the 1st alternate afterall. If not even he is ready, we have to resort back to Ross. And like I said about Ashley in the other thread, I hope he doesn't go, if his performance / placement is going to vindicate the committee's decision to send Vincent over him. (fine I am not the best person)
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I'm sure Jason is taking his alternate duties very seriously. I'm sure all of the alternates are being responsible. There must be some kind of agreement they enter into with the USFS where if they're named an alternate they do a proper job.

Jason has been a bit all over the place, but I have no doubt he's been training. Max is in Scottsdale, but I'm sure he's been training. And Ross has been skiing but I'm sure is back in Boston now and training. They're not children, they understand the game. And they must know there's a high chance of a post-Olympic withdrawal.
 
aftershocks said:
I don't recall what if anything Adam ever said publicly about that coaching relationship. And it's certainly water under the bridge by now. :drama:
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I agree that it's water under the bridge, but for the record, here's what Adam said about his coaching change in 2011: https://youtu.be/DCTr7j7jPao

And here's what he said a couple of years later when TSL brought up the whole Orser/Yuna break-up and how that affected Adam: https://youtu.be/x3GLkZvw2WY?t=4m3s
 
Marco said:
I wonder if Jason's alleged coaching change would mean he isn't training as much. He is the 1st alternate afterall. If not even he is ready, we have to resort back to Ross. And like I said about Ashley in the other thread, I hope he doesn't go, if his performance / placement is going to vindicate the committee's decision to send Vincent over him. (fine I am not the best person)
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I think Ross is done w/ competitive skating. He said 'no' to 4CCs. It might be Max if Jason is distracted by his search for a coach.
 
clairecloutier said:
TSL tweeted that Jason has left Kori and is trying out with possible new coaches ....
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kwanette said:
Info doesn't necessarily come out of people's "camps"..People know people from all of the rinks. People see, people talk.
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I believe that's known as gossip LOL! People talking does not mean they are saying the truth.

TSL is a prime example of gossip. While it may be true why do we have to keep giving them publicity by acting like Dave is a valid news source?

aftershocks said:
Why does everybody have to or need to go to Brian Orser? Yes, he's a good coach and he can have the pick of the crop, as he chooses and pleases. But it's a two-way street and everybody does not need to knee-jerk think going to a famous and successful coach is going to solve all of their issues. Anyway for Jason, I really don't see him moving to Canada. :drama:

If Jason has left Kori, I'm sure it had to be a wrenching decision for both of them. :( As far as coaches, I would think that Frank or Raf are better fits than Brian. In terms of Worlds, Nathan may be too ill to have enough time to recover and then regroup after the Olympics, much less to have the time to get back into training shape. But we shall see. I'm not sure Adam is planning to continue. He's achieved his Olympics goals and further stardom opportunities appear to beckon. Surely Adam will be walking the red carpet at the Oscars on March 4.
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Frank?? REALLY? Why? He's done. Hauling him out everytime a skater needs a coach is no better then "why does everyone have to go to Brian". It's like the USFSA "panic button" skater needs coach call Frank, who cares if they should work together!

As for Raf, Jason has been used to a touchy feely coach all his life. That's a huge change from Raf's style! (Actually the Southern CA connection has me worried he's visiting Tammy and I am not that impressed with her skaters ,but...)

I love Jason's skating, but... I don't think he's going to get 3 or 4 quads at this point and I think that's what you will need for the next cycle.

I personally hate for Nathan to leave Raf I think it will be a huge error!
 
mpal2 said:
I get a not available in your country error. Can you summarize?
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Adam's saying he and Brian just "had a few miscommunications" and weren't on the same page at the very end. When asked to elaborate he says he wanted to re-evaluate how he was paced throughout the season -- he says that for the past couple of years he's had a strong start but rough mid-season, i.e. he's probably alluding to the 5th place finishes he had at Nats in 2010 & 11 -- so he wanted a fresh start. (He doesn't mention the whole Yuna thing here and the interviewer doesn't ask.)
 
clairecloutier said:
TSL tweeted that Jason has left Kori and is trying out with possible new coaches ....
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I have a feeling Dave may actually be right about this.

If Jason wants to be competitive, his only chance is to up his TES which, unfortunately, has regressed. A coaching change would seem to be the right move.

While Jason has wonderful artistic qualities, I feel like the judges did him no favors by holding up his placements with PCS scores for as long as they did. This last year, after weak NHK and Nationals long programs, it was sad to see him grabbing Kori and Rohene's hands, with his usual "crossing fingers for a podium worthy score" look. With his TES so low (I think it was 11th at Nationals), the judges simply couldn't hold him up any longer. The message was sent loud and clear.
 
@skateboy With the quad likely to lose value, if he can get all his triples looking beautiful and consistent again I think he'll be a podium threat at any GP he competes at even without a quad. Look at how competitive he and Adam were on the GP this year - a lower quad value would narrow that gap more.

It should also be noted that Jason is a skater who, like Ashley Wagner, is much more favored by international judges as opposed to domestic judges. I'm not worried about his scores at Nationals this year - this season's been a bit of a blip, but I think he could easily bounce back.

Particularly with the rumors of Kori and Rohene leaving 7k, I'm wondering if Jason and co. are moving to LA together. It's not a secret that Kori likes to send her students out to consultants as needed, and that would be much less trouble in LA. We've also seen some US skaters thrive when they have to train with top competitors, and maybe that's what Jason needs - not a new coach.
 
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skateboy said:
With his TES so low (I think it was 11th at Nationals), the judges simply couldn't hold him up any longer. The message was sent loud and clear.
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I don't think the judges were trying to send a message. Jason botched his quad, all his combos and made a whole bunch of other jump errors. That was easily the worst performance of his entire senior career (from the 2013-2014 season). The only performances that matched that TES wise was his FS in Sochi when he UR two jumps and had that weird zero-point jumping pass with his 3Lo. There's was no amount of +GOE in his steps and spins that could make up for the number of errors at Nationals.

Judges at both NHK and Nationals gave him high PCS, like his other performances. The difference is he was able to podium elsewhere (i.e. Skate Canada this season and even 4CC two weeks after Nationals) is cause he can rack up enough TES to beat others. That wasn't the case at NHK or Nationals.

The only message to Jason it that he can't afford to make lots of mistakes, but I'm sure that since he didn't have a boatful of quads, he would know that, right?
 
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Willin said:
@skateboy With the quad likely to lose value, if he can get all his triples looking beautiful and consistent again I think he'll be a podium threat at any GP he competes at even without a quad. Look at how competitive he and Adam were on the GP this year - a lower quad value would narrow that gap more.
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You have a point. But, even if the quad values are lowered, they will still score more than triples and I think it's safe to say the quadsters will still be doing them. Do you think the change in scoring will make that much of a difference?
 
@skateboy Well, if Adam and him were competitive this year and Jason made it to the GPF (via Jin's withdrawal, but tied for the 6th spot with Jin) even with the quad kings riding the high BV of quads, I'd imagine Jason can be more competitive on the GP. I think he won't have a shot at the World/Olympic podium without a quad or two, but it appears he has two - in practice only. I wonder if training with quad kings will help him with the quads in both technique and confidence so he can land them consistently in competition. But, of course, he has to get his triples back consistent. I think that's also a confidence problem as opposed to a technique one, but we shall see.
 
I think Jason is already turning things around with his jumps. In his 4CC FS, he got +1.86 GOE on his 3A+3T and +.90 on the 3L he has frequently popped in the past year. It wasn’t a perfect program (he messed up the solo 3A), and he still has plenty of work to do, but it was a huge step up from NHK, the GPF, and Nats.
 
nimi said:
I agree that it's water under the bridge, but for the record, here's what Adam said about his coaching change in 2011: https://youtu.be/DCTr7j7jPao

And here's what he said a couple of years later when TSL brought up the whole Orser/Yuna break-up and how that affected Adam: https://youtu.be/x3GLkZvw2WY?t=4m3s
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nimi said:
Adam's saying he and Brian just "had a few miscommunications" and weren't on the same page at the very end. When asked to elaborate he says he wanted to re-evaluate how he was paced throughout the season -- he says that for the past couple of years he's had a strong start but rough mid-season, i.e. he's probably alluding to the 5th place finishes he had at Nats in 2010 & 11 -- so he wanted a fresh start. (He doesn't mention the whole Yuna thing here and the interviewer doesn't ask.)
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Thanks for researching and locating Adam's old comments from this 'water-under-the-bridge' scenario. :) I too cannot access the first link, so thanks for also letting us know the gist of what Adam said there. The second clip is from Adam's TSL interview in 2013 (which was so delightful -- Adam is such a special person).

All-in-all, it appears to me that Adam was fairly circumspect about what exactly went wrong in his coaching relationship with Brian, aside from 'a few miscommunications,' and 'wanting a fresh start.' In the TSL clip, Adam seems to be hinting that the very public split with Yu Na impacted Brian in a way that affected the dynamic in their rink altogether at that time, and apparently specifically for Adam in terms of his thwarted expectations of being Brian's major focus in the seniors discipline going forward. The TSL query/response was more connected to Dave trying to dig for skinny on the Yu Na/Brian split, which Adam did not provide. :saint:
 
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Maybe because Jason was one of the substitutes. Who would have been next in line after Max and Ross? Grant?
 
misskarne said:
Only two alternates listed; Max and Ross. Order is alphabetical.
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Of course the order is alphabetical! The ISU always lists designated alternates in alphabetical order. The USFSA, however, announced its alternates immediately after Nationals in order of preference, i.e., Brown, Miner, Aaron. There was never any realistic chance that they'd add another alternate if any of their initial selections -- Chen, Rippon, and Zhou -- decided not to go. That isn't how they roll.
 
USFS can change/switch their alternates -- this was their original selection list for 2018 Junior Worlds:
2018 World Junior Championships
Alex Krasnozhon
Camden Pulkinen
Tomoki Hiwatashi

Alternates (not ranked): Maxim Naumov, Andrew Torgashev, Dinh Tran
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Only Ryan Dunk is listed as an alternate on the ISU website/list -- he was the only one not originally assigned as a competitor or alternate who attended the Junior Worlds camp in late January and so I assume that was the criterion to be listed as a JW alternate: https://www.instagram.com/p/BeoRhSvFK3E/?hl=en&taken-by=usfigureskating
(Ditto for Angelina Huang and Brynne McIsaac, both of whom attended the JW camp in place of Tessa Hong and Starr Andrews who declined her spot in favor of 4CC -- both Huang and McIsaac are now listed as alternates to JW along with original alternate Hanna Harrell.)
 
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