U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

[Carolla5501]

Honestly if you had asked me last year I would have put Adam in the "maybe" group, but he's made a case for himself and I think that he will be on the team. I don't think there's any way Nathan doesn't make the team unless he completely implodes and finishes 10th at Nationals, top 5 and he goes. So we are down to one spot. Max cannot afford to miss ANYTHING because his performance skills don't hold up when compared to Brown so he has to win on technical!

 

[vesperholly]

I know Nathan underperformed in the LP, but is Nathan less of a safe bet?

I would have Nathan skate the SP and Adam skate the FS. Nathan can post a monster score, and Adam has really shown consistency and nerves of steel this year.

Jason and Max are fighting it out for the third spot and that will come down to Nationals.

 

[Carolla5501]

Dave Lease did say that Adam was into "The Secret"

Personally that only proves that Dave Lease is talking.... his mouth and reality aren't always connected!

 

[Firedancer]

I think the team will be Nathan, Adam and Jason.

 

[Carolla5501]

I think the team will be Nathan, Adam and Jason.

I think that's the safest bet. Max has to beat Jason and possibly decisively. Of course if Jason skates like he did at his last Grand Prix than Max could waltz into that 3rd spot, but generally unless he's injured Jason is a better competitor.

 

[ChelleC]

I think the team will be Nathan, Adam and Jason.

So do I. Max will need to have the skate of his life, and hope for Jason to make mistakes, to make the team.

Nathan and Adam are likely locks for the team.

 

[Xela M]

Has everyone discounted Vincent? I think the fight is more between Jason and Vincent with Max more of a long shot.

 

[Firedancer]

Honestly, at the beginning of the season I thought Vincent had a really good chance of being on the team. I felt like UFSA would want to send him. But I think his fall is going to be difficult to ignore.

 

[VGThuy]

If Vincent was just having bad performances I’d think he was more in contention but he’s having some technical issues.

 

[Firedancer]

And it wasn’t just one bad competition either. He has just looked pretty much overwhelmed. I do think he will get it together though and could be fun to watch in the next quad.

 

[skateboy]

Has everyone discounted Vincent? I think the fight is more between Jason and Vincent with Max more of a long shot.

I am not discounting Vincent at all, I think he's the wild card and could be dangerous.

My guess is that, because he is young and has nothing to lose, Vincent is working his tail off to get all of those quads flat-back fully rotated (yes, he often URs, but he sometimes lands clean, too).

Max has to be clean. Adam has already made a strong case for himself and seems driven. I doubt that Jason, with his sketchy fall season, is going to start throwing quads at Nats, he needs to be clean as well and his PCS could hold him up. But it will be hard to ignore Vincent if he really delivers all his difficult tech content at Nationals.

 

[olympic]

My Questions / Comments re Adam -

1. Is the 4T definitely out for the season due to his foot or is there a plan to try and bring it back by Nationals / Olympics? If he does a 4T like at '16 TEB, it's worth more than an UR 4Z.
2. Is the Rippon Lutz also gone for good due to his shoulder?

I'd like to see him try the 3F-3L in the SP. It might push his score into the 90s. If he could do a Rippon Lutz, that would be another point in the GOE category there.

I think he would do well to try 3Z-3T in the LP instead of 3F-3T and repeat the Lutz instead of the Flip - slightly more points.

 

[Firedancer]

Especially since he just dislocated his shoulder again I would say the rippon lutz is most likely out for the year.

Looking at his program layout, I would guess the reason he is repeating the 3F and not the 3Lz is to take away the potential of then ending up with three 3Lz if something goes wrong on the 4Lz. But this is just my guess. I have not seen anything where he has provided an update on the foot and the 4T.

The 3F-3L was beautiful at SA and he could put it in the SP.

 

[Miintx]

I think the team will be Nathan, Adam and Jason.

I LOVE this team. Jason is my favorite for his enthusiasm and artistry. Nathan is clearly the best in the US now. Adam is proving himself this fall. I hope all three have an awesome Nationals.

 

[olympic]

I route for underdogs. Thus I must cast my lot with Max

 

[misskarne]

Has everyone discounted Vincent? I think the fight is more between Jason and Vincent with Max more of a long shot.

Yes, because this is an entirely logical conclusion to draw when Max comprehensively outskated Vincent not just once, but twice, including a 15-point walloping at IdF when Max himself wasn't perfect.

Edit: AND both occasions were before international judges AND at both competitions Vincent got a big advantage by having soft tech panels.

 

[Lacey]

I think Nathan is fine. I think the whole weekend was about his blade issues. He (and other skaters too?) complained about the ice. To have one's blade feel "off" is a really big deal for skaters. Raf did the right thing and stepped in and stoned at least one blade, more than once. Nathan admitted later that he didn't have enough practice time on the newly stoned blade(s), and therefore probably shouldn't have tried to have his coach mess with things. He wasn't blaming Raf, but in the K&C, I think I could read his mouth that his blade felt something like squiggly. Raf kept saying something like, that's ok, don't worry. I think Nathan's and Raf's relationship is just fine, and Nathan will come springing back at the GPF. Live and learn, he probably won't be changing blades in the middle of a competition again, and he was lucky that he was that far ahead after the short.

 

[Marco]

Right now I would say Nathan is way ahead and Adam also has some cushion, so the third spot is down to Max, Jason and Vincent at Nationals.

 

[olympic]

Would you say that the US has the deepest men's field in the World at the moment? I realize that JPN has the two big stars [Yuzu and Shoma] but their ranks thin rapidly from #3 down, and Russia has a significant no. of men on the bubble of greatness, but not quite there yet. Canada has some talent but again not as much depth as the US.

I find it fascinating that the men are center stage at Nationals, not Ladies (Aren't the men front and center on Saturday night?). I really think that is a first. I don't think I have ever seen that in my lifetime.

 

[MRani]

US men are extremely impressive right now. And as if the success of the senior men wasn’t enough, there are incredible US men in the junior ranks as well. We have what 3, 4 junior men in the JGPF? The future of US men’s skating is very secure.

 

[Mrs. P]

US men are extremely impressive right now. And as if the success of the senior men wasn’t enough, there are incredible US men in the junior ranks as well. We have what 3, 4 junior men in the JGPF? The future of US men’s skating is very secure.

We have 5 men in the top 12 in Season's Best score (and 3 in the top 10). Russia and Japan are tied for second with two each.

We have three men in the JGPF: Alexei Krasnozhon, Camden Pulkinen and Andrew Torgashev. Tomoki Hiawtashi also won two bronze medals on his JGP and is one of the alternates to the JGPF. Those four will be fighting for three junior worlds spots!

So yes, a very deep field!

 

[MRani]

We have 5 men in the top 12 in Season's Best score (and 3 in the top 10). Russia and Japan are tied for second with two each.

We have three men in the JGPF: Alexei Krasnozhon, Camden Pulkinen and Andrew Torgashev. Tomoki Hiawtashi also won two bronze medals on his JGP and is one of the alternates to the JGPF. Those four will be fighting for three junior worlds spots!

So yes, a very deep field!

Thank you for the clarification! It’s really going to be an awesome fight at Nationals and Junior Worlds. I can’t wait to see how these juniors will further develop, especially once they enter the senior scene. What an exciting time this is for US men’s skating.

 

[Marco]

Deep field in general but only Nathan has the goods to challenge for major international titles / medals. Vincent and Max also have quads but are too inconsistent on them and otherwise quite clearly inferior in other areas. The better skaters like Adam and Jason don't have the quads.

I would love to see Alexei K finally nail the 4loop rotations because I feel he has everything else. I also like Andrew T.

 

[Jaana]

We have 5 men in the top 12 in Season's Best score (and 3 in the top 10). Russia and Japan are tied for second with two each.

Yes, but only one = Chen among top six at this moment. Russia and Japan have two men among top 6:

http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2017-18/sbtsmto.htm

 

[shady82]

Would you say that the US has the deepest men's field in the World at the moment? I realize that JPN has the two big stars [Yuzu and Shoma] but their ranks thin rapidly from #3 down, and Russia has a significant no. of men on the bubble of greatness, but not quite there yet.

Agreed. Saying Japanese men are stronger than American men is almost like saying the Canadian women are stronger than the Americans. Even if Kaetlyn and Gabby are outskating the USA ladies (except for Bradie probably), the rest of the Canadian ladies is quite weak, and Alaine may not even make the long at the Olympics on a bad day.

 

[olympic]

Yes, but only one = Chen among top six at this moment. Russia and Japan have two men among top 6:

http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2017-18/sbtsmto.htm

In my earlier post, I was acknowledging overall depth as opposed to stardom and putting it in the context of how deep the field will be for Nationals. I acknowledge that JPN has more star power that the US 2 to 1 [Yuzu / Shoma v. Chen], but on the SB list, the U.S. occupies spots 7, 9, and 10 [Rippon, Aaron, Brown] just behind the top 6. Brown also finished ahead of Kolyada and Kovtun at last year's Worlds in Helsinki. I'm not saying that would happen again but who knows.

 

[Mrs. P]

Yes, but only one = Chen among top six at this moment. Russia and Japan have two men among top 6:

http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2017-18/sbtsmto.htm

I was answering the poster's question, which was about depth.

Under the same logic, I guess we can downplay the Russian Ladies' depth since only two ladies are in the top six there. (They have 5 in the top 10, which is crazy! Russian Nationals is going to be slugfest).

 

[Rock2]

This is such a crazy year and particularly in men's.

The sudden TES surge over the last two years seemed to go off without a hitch. The ripple effects are not fully known at this point but we're starting to see them. First, can the quad guys sustain it mentally and also physically? Already we're seeing some bodies breaking down.

Then, we watch those who aren't big into quads make big strategy decisions on to what extent they will try to join the show.

Third we have to layer in who is ready to face Olympic pressure. Adam, Jason and Max have been through it and are thus more likely to be prepped. You have guys like Zhou coming out of Junior and still figuring it out, while we see Nathan taking over so much of the space in Olympic media. I have the slightest sense of dread in me much in the way I felt it in 2009 with McLaughlin/Brubaker.

So many moving parts...and for me I'm netting out with scenarios of so little going according to form. At the end of the day, the only real contenders for KOR spots are Chen, Rippon, Brown, Aaron and Zhou but the path to getting to the selection may end up being fairly eye opening.

As a fan, I loves it. As a skater, my knuckles would be totally white from here on in.

 

[Sylvia]

Belatedly replying to @hoptoad...

Can someone fill me in on what Derrick Delmore is doing these days?

I was surprised to see him in the K&C with Adam. Isn't Raf still his primary coach? Does Delmore coach in the same rink as Raf? Who else is he coaching?

Yes, Arutunian is Adam's primary coach but Delmore has been with Adam at other competitions before (2016 Nationals & Worlds, also Finlandia Trophy this fall when Arutunian couldn't be there). Nathan skated right after Adam in both the SP & FS at Skate America so that's why Delmore was the only one sitting in the K&C with Adam.

AFAIK, Delmore coaches at several rinks in the L.A. area -- mainly Lakewood (Team Arutunian's rink) and Torrance (where Ivan Dinev and Angela Nikodinov are based and the 3 of them coach students there together).

He's part of Raf's coaching team at Lakewood for some time, but he also serves as a primary coach for other skaters, namely Starr Andrews.

Yes, in addition to Andrews, Delmore coaches Sebastien Payannet who has qualified again for the Senior Men's event at Nationals. He also is the primary coach of a Junior (Emma Coppess) and Novice (Beverly Zhu) who have qualified for Nationals, as well as several other young skaters he co-coaches with Dinev/Nikodinov, such as Goku Endo (Novice man who debuted on the JGP this fall).

Anyway, I don't know much about him on Team Raf, other than he's on it -- anyone got a sense of what he does or if he specializes in anything?

@Mrs. P, AFAIK, he is NOT officially part of Arutunian's team but consults/freelances with them from time to time. I believe Delmore is a technical specialist at the U.S. Regional level so he is knowledgeable about spin and footwork levels, etc. As has been mentioned, Delmore also does a lot of choreographing for skaters at all levels.

ETA that I've compiled all the U.S. men's senior international scores (SP/FS/Total) so far this season here: https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/scoretracker/current-senior-men-scores/

 

[Jaana]

I was answering the poster's question, which was about depth.

Under the same logic, I guess we can downplay the Russian Ladies' depth since only two ladies are in the top six there. (They have 5 in the top 10, which is crazy! Russian Nationals is going to be slugfest).

It is very impressive in my opinion that both Japan and Russia have two skaters among top 6 as well in men as in ladies discipline.