U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

[Mrs. P]

It is very impressive in my opinion that both Japan and Russia have two skaters among top 6 as well in men as in ladies discipline.

Absolutely. But I don't think , also just my humble opinion, that it's mutually exclusive to be impressed with that AND the depth of the American men. As I said only the Russian ladies rival them in that (and yes, they have the edge because they have more people at the top six). If nothing else, it speaks to how much of their A-game the men will have to be come early January.

And U.S. Ice Dance is impressive cause they have two teams in the top six and tHREE teams in the top eight (and three teams in GPF). I'm impressed by that too!

Apologies for the slight off-topic.

@Mrs. P, AFAIK, he is NOT officially part of Arutunian's team but consults/freelances with them from time to time. I believe Delmore is a technical specialist at the U.S. Regional level so he is knowledgeable about spin and footwork levels, etc. As has been mentioned, Delmore also does a lot of choreographing for skaters at all levels.

ETA that I've compiled all the U.S. men's senior international scores (SP/FS/Total) so far this season here: https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/scoretracker/current-senior-men-scores/

Thanks for the info, Sylvia (and the scores).

 

[olympic]

Playing around. Here are the SB score internationally for US men this season - SP only. Give you a read of what the groups at Nationals leading into the LP might look like

1. Chen 104.12
2. Brown 90.71
3. Rippon 89.04
4. Aaron 86.06
5. Johnson 82.55 (!)
6. Hochstein 80.55
----
7. Krasnozhon 80.26
8. Zhou 80.23
9. Dolensky 78.75
10. Torgashev 74.37
11. Hiwatashi 73.28
12. Miner 71.64
---
13. Moeller 70.75

Surprised that Zhou and Miner are so low relative to the other US men! And Johnson is so high!

 

[pinky166]

I would have Nathan skate the SP and Adam skate the FS. Nathan can post a monster score, and Adam has really shown consistency and nerves of steel this year.

Jason and Max are fighting it out for the third spot and that will come down to Nationals.

Agreed. Adam without a quad could get burried in the standings in the SP even if he skates clean, so better to put Nathan in that segment where he has a BV advantage and good track record.

I think having Adam do the FS would be a good idea because he’s been very consistent with it this year and even if his lack of quads does hold him back, he’ll only be competing against 5 other people versus the 10? in the SP.

The 3rd spot will come down to Max, Jason, or Vincent but I probably wouldn’t have any of them do the team event at this point as they don’t have the BV of Nathan or the consistency of Adam so far this season, plus Vincent and Jason could both get hammered by a tough caller.

 

[vesperholly]

And Johnson is so high!

It was a fabulous skate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc0Kxn7TaFQ

He was 2nd at Nebelhorn and should've been the Skate America pick.

 

[misskarne]

The 3rd spot will come down to Max, Jason, or Vincent but I probably wouldn’t have any of them do the team event at this point as they don’t have the BV of Nathan or the consistency of Adam so far this season, plus Vincent and Jason could both get hammered by a tough caller.

...as could Adam.

Nathan and Max are really the only two of the five who are "safe" from a tough panel. Which is why the panel is soft at Nationals.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Yes, I'm sure Aaron is the only reason why USFS does anything.

 

[pinky166]

...as could Adam.

Nathan and Max are really the only two of the five who are "safe" from a tough panel. Which is why the panel is soft at Nationals.

Adam’s lutz is always going to be < or << but his other jumps are usually okay on rotation so far this season. I always think his 3-3s seem questionable but the judges never seem to ding it. I guess the flip-loop combo is kind of risky in that regard, but with his foot I understand why he’s trying it.

 

[olympic]

^It's really too bad about Adam's broken foot last January and his dislocated shoulder. A solid 4T and a Rippon Lutz would be worth more.

As for Max, one thing about him is that he doesn't UR. I think his problem (when he has them) is OVERrotation. He tends to have wild landings when he is off.

 

[eurodance2001]

Barring injury and/or implosions, it would be hard to imagine Nathan or Adam not being on the team based on their ‘body of work’ so yes, spot three is down to Max and Jason. Vincent has not shown competitive nerves this year so even if he pulls a Hail Mary out of his hat, it’s going to be hard for him to overcome his recent performances. There’s three tiers really at this point: Nathan/Adam; Max/Jason; and then everyone else..

 

[olympic]

I would still place Vincent in a tier no. 3 by himself and closer to tier 2 than to the group behind him, because he is still easily outperforming Ross, Grant, Alex, Tim and the newbies.

BTW, I don’t know if Ross is still being plagued by injuries but his performances have been underwhelming: He has SS and was even with Adam just a couple of years ago, but he seems to have regressed while Adam took off. He seemed nonchalant in the K&C at SA. IDK. If I had his SS and was even w/ another skater who is now a prime contender, while I was falling back into the pack, I’d be more frustrated

 

[her grace]

Barring injury and/or implosions, it would be hard to imagine Nathan or Adam not being on the team based on their ‘body of work’ . . .

Agreed. Chen, I think is a lock. Rippon's body of work makes him a favorite so if he skates well, the judges and callers will generously reward him. If it's close, I think the panel and judges will give him the edge over the other non-Chen skaters. OTOH, if Rippon implodes while two of Brown, Aaron, and Zhou soars, I don't think his body of work will save him.

 

[Mrs. P]

Agreed. Chen, I think is a lock. Rippon's body of work makes him a favorite so if he skates well, the judges and callers will generously reward him. If it's close, I think the panel and judges will give him the edge over the other non-Chen skaters. OTOH, if Rippon implodes while two of Brown, Aaron, and Zhou soars, I don't think his body of work will save him.

I share your take on this situation, especially the last part.

A similar scenario was in 2010 with U.S. Ladies. We didn't have a skater who was a lock, but a number of similar-skilled ladies fighting for two spots. Ashley medaled at both her GP events and made GPF over Rachael and Alissa (who had one not great GP/one good GP like Jason and Max) and Mirai (who maybe is similar to Vincent, who was the reserve scenario, great at SP but not great at FS and finished OTP in both).

As all of you know, Mirai killed it at Nationals (many to this day thought she should have won) and Rachael worked out whatever bugs she had on the GP to win Nationals (and even if you say Mirai should have won, Rachael definitely turned in two great skates) to get on the Olympic Team. Ashley's GPF appearance did save her from a not great SP and an OK FS to get third. Alissa just imploded.

Not saying this exact scenario will play out with the men, but I agree that Adam's BOW won't save him if he doesn't bring it against the other three at nationals.

 

[olympic]

BTW, I don’t think he is a contender for the team, but Grant is one skater in that scrum who tends to get significantly better by nationals

 

[Aceon6]

Is there any precedent for deferring the 3rd spot until after 4CCs?

 

[BittyBug]

Is there any precedent for deferring the 3rd spot until after 4CCs?

I can't think of any instance in which the team was not determined immediately after nationals unless it was a monitoring situation due to injury, in which case the injured person was provisionally assigned to the team, pending monitoring.

 

[Sylvia]

None of the 2018 Olympic team members will be competing at 4CC, Jan. 22-27, in Taipei (this also has been USFS' policy in past Olympic seasons).

The Senior men are scheduled to compete on Jan. 4 & 6 in San Jose. The Team Event Men's SP and Pairs SP will take place on the morning of the day of the PyeongChang Opening Ceremony on Feb. 9th.

This article on Nathan and Adam was published after their first official practice on Thursday last week: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/11/24/262395520/placid-pieces-chen-needs-new-duds-not-quads

That doesn't mean Chen is shying away from difficulty. His free skate run-through on Thursday, to music from Mao's Last Dancer, included two quad lutzes, and he's training a new combination.
"I've been playing around with (quad) toe-half loop-triple sal(chow)," he said. "The first one I did (in practice) did not go all right but hopefully I can do it here. I just want to step it up for myself, and I think adding tons of more quads to the program might not be smartest choice, so this is the next step for me."

Despite doubling both halves of this new combo in his FS, I saw quite a few successful 4T-half loop-3S combos landed by Nathan in the Skate America practices.

Adam Rippon reeled off a few clean quad lutzes in practice on Thursday, and then followed up with a few zingers in the mixed zone.
....
"I feel like many years ago I was setting a trend (trying quad lutz), and I was like, 'Oh, no one will do this,'" Rippon said. "Now I go to competition and everybody and their mother and their child can do a quad lutz, and I'm over here eight years later busting my chops."

"Having broken my foot in January, I'm careful how many toe jumps I do with my left foot," Rippon said. "It's forced me to buckle down and work on the technique of the quad lutz. When you go into a training session, you might see Nathan do five quad lutzes, and won't see me do any, but that's what works for me. I got my triples at (age) 17 or 18, and that's how old Nathan is now. As someone my age in my career, I have to play a different game and be smart about it."

 

[VGThuy]

Do all four disciplines skate on the same day for the Team Event Final?

 

[clairecloutier]

Do all four disciplines skate on the same day for the Team Event Final?

Team Event schedule is listed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...6rap5q1I1Vfk9WZR5hfGMChpUw/edit#gid=709855582

 

[Sylvia]

Brooklee Han has interviewed all 3 U.S. men -- Alex Krasnozhon, Camden Pulkinen and Andrew Torgashev -- for IFS ahead of the JGP Final next week in Japan: https://www.ifsmagazine.com/u-s-junior-men-final-showdown/

 

[Frida80]

Team Event schedule is listed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...6rap5q1I1Vfk9WZR5hfGMChpUw/edit#gid=709855582

Pairs on Valentine's Day yet again.

 

[Mrs. P]

BTW, I don’t think he is a contender for the team, but Grant is one skater in that scrum who tends to get significantly better by nationals

I think he has a really good shot at a 4CC spot!

 

[misskarne]

Is there any precedent for deferring the 3rd spot until after 4CCs?

It wouldn't happen. 4CCs are too close to the Olympics.

 

[Jammers]

Just thinking about it North American skaters really do get the shaft since 4CC is so close to the Olympics and is too far to travel to compete while European skaters get to compete at Europeans and get that one extra competition in right before the Olympics.

 

[Bellanca]

BTW, I don’t think he is a contender for the team, but Grant is one skater in that scrum who tends to get significantly better by nationals

Yeah, I agree. At this point, it seems highly unlikely, but because I am underdog inclined and adore Grant (shameless, I know ) I always feel that he can at least keep the other guys honest, make them sweat a little, causing them to perhaps look over their shoulder to see what he might be up to.

 

[misskarne]

Just thinking about it North American skaters really do get the shaft since 4CC is so close to the Olympics and is too far to travel to compete while European skaters get to compete at Europeans and get that one extra competition in right before the Olympics.

Ahem. It's 4CC, not North America CC - and at least the US has sufficient numbers that they can still send a full team to 4CC made up of reserves while resting their skaters for the primo event.

Countries like Australia? Our Olympics will go to 4CC and do that extra competition and guess what? They'll have to travel just as far - sometimes further - to do it.

 

[Firedancer]

https://mobile.twitter.com/rockerskating/status/936574519170486272

I think this is a wise decision by Jin as being ready for the Olympics is a lot more important than appearing in the GPF. I wish Jin (and all the injured skaters) a complete and quick recovery.

That being said, three US men at the junior and senior levels at the GPF! The depth of the US men has been so impressive this year. This is a great opportunity for Jason to show his performances at NHK we’re just one bad competition. Two more strong performances here could really strengthen Jason’s bid for the Olympic team ahead of nationals.

 

[topaz]

https://mobile.twitter.com/rockerskating/status/936574519170486272

I think this is a wise decision by Jin as being ready for the Olympics is a lot more important than appearing in the GPF. I wish Jin (and all the injured skaters) a complete and quick recovery.

That being said, three US men at the junior and senior levels at the GPF! The depth of the US men has been so impressive this year. This is a great opportunity for Jason to show his performances at NHK we’re just one bad competition. Two more strong performances here could really strengthen Jason’s bid for the Olympic team ahead of nationals.

I don't about "depth". US men benefitted from injuries to make to the GPF(except for Nathan). I'm not taking away anything for Adam Rippon who skated very well this season, nor Jason who skated well at one competition. But Hanyu, Javi and Patrick struggling with injuries and motivation played a major part.

Anyway, I hope Jason skates well uses this as jumping board for Nationals. He has to add the quad toe to both programs here. He has nothing to lose.

 

[VGThuy]

I don't about "depth". US men benefitted from injuries to make to the GPF(except for Nathan). I'm not taking away anything for Adam Rippon who skated very well this season, nor Jason who skated well at one competition. But Hanyu, Javi and Patrick struggling with injuries and motivation played a major part.

Anyway, I hope Jason skates well uses this a jumping board for Nationals. He has to add the quad toe to both programs here. He has nothing to lose.

I agree with you. That said, it took some baller performances from Adam to be able to take advantage in this quad-filled era. It didn't have to be him, but because he willed his way to skate well, he made it in, which shows the support he has from the judges. Jason, similarly, has that support except he wasn't able to take advantage at NHK when the door was wide open for him to do so. That said, the fact that Jason is still first alternate to the GPF says a lot about his prospects.

 

[Mrs. P]

I don't think Patrick should get a pass because he's lacking motivation (if that is what caused his poor performances, I'm not sure what it is and we haven't heard an official reason right?). Jason beat him at Skate Canada, his home turf, fair and square. He also didn't have to withdraw from NHK either.

Yes, there were injuries and withdrawls, but it does speak to the US men's depth because basically, once you take out Javi, Patrick, Boyang and Yuzuru, it's all these U.S. (and Russian) men who take the opportunity.

In any case, I'm looking forward to this unexpected head-to-head USA men battle.
It could also be an interesting Team Event preview since it's basically JPN/RUS/USA

 

[olympic]

Yeah. I am not buying into the just luck argument - Javi skated a full slate this season and was brilliant in 1 GP but bombed the other. Jason beat Patrick on his home turf and team Patrick made a decision to WD from the 2nd GP. That’s on him. Not on Jason or Adam