U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

[skatfan]

Vincent defeated Adam head-to-head in competition this season. And Fernandez.

So, Spain should send Vincent instead of Fernandez?

There are two big competitions before the committee has to decide, and I'm sure how the skaters do at each of them will matter. I guess we'll know how much when the committee makes its decisions.

 

[toddlj]

People writing off Vincent are being foolish. If he somehow is able to skate two cleanish programs with multiple quads at Nationals, he will absolutely be in the mix for the Olympic team. I can understand writing off Grant and Ross. But not Vincent.

 

[Vagabond]

I can understand writing off Grant and Ross.

Nooooooh!!!

 

[missing]

Couldn't we send five guys to the Olympics?

Two of them could pretend to be a pairs team and then sneak into the men's competition.

I'd offer up dance instead but we really do have three top of the line teams for that, and while our women aren't so great this year, I'm not getting into a battle over which two (or three) should be left behind so some guys could go instead.

Pairs, on the other hand, seems like a reasonable sacrifice.

 

[misskarne]

Exactly. What if Jason bombs at the GPF? Or if he bombs at Nationals?

Why all the doom and gloom from crazy Max fans?

Or what if Adam bombs at the GPF or Nationals (like he did in 2014)?

I had a moment of sad yesterday. Today I've moved onto kick their asses Max and even if you can't force their hand make them look stupid in the process.

I just don't get all this stuff from Max fans about USFS having some grand conspiracy against him. USFS loves Max and they do him a lot of favors scoring wise.

That might be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on this site. Yes, Max gets so many scoring favours from USFS, so many, that's why he's a twice National Cham- oh, wait. He's not. Yes, Max gets so many scoring favours from USFS, that's why he's already been to the Olym- oh, wait. He hasn't. Yes, Max gets so many scoring favours from USFS, that's why he got 91 PCS - oh, wait.

Max has never gotten any scoring favours from USFS. His PCS inflation at Nationals is consistently one of the lowest inflations and then he's double-punished by the marshmallow tech panels who don't call other skaters' URs. Even in 2016 when his SP - with quad-triple - was utterly perfect, he still scored lower than Jason's quadless SP the year before. It's a big day for him when he gets a five-point bump in PCS at Nationals - you'd certainly never see him getting a seventeen point bump like Rippon did in 2015.

As for those saying Vincent still has a chance because he has quads, I have no idea what they're thinking. I think he has a slim chance if everyone else at Nationals bombs, but I'm sure USFS is well aware of his messy Grand Prix/Senior B skates this fall and the fact that he doesn't really have consistent and clean quads, just UR'd ones without the PCS/quality on the other elements to make up for it like Adam and Jason have.

I feel like Vincent is going to be a big beneficiary of the notoriously-soft US Nats panel, like he was last year.

People writing off Vincent are being foolish. If he somehow is able to skate two cleanish programs with multiple quads at Nationals, he will absolutely be in the mix for the Olympic team. I can understand writing off Grant and Ross. But not Vincent.

Vincent will be in a very good position at US Nats because I'm sure the TP will just ignore the stacks of URs. They'll probably call one, maybe two at a push, to make it look okay, but they'll ignore the rest even when they're super obvious.

 

[Sylvia]

Yesterday when I was flipping channels (I am not in the US now), I stumbled upon a Chinese TV show called "Celebrity Face to Face", and guess who the featured guest is -- Vincent Zhou! I think they did the show around the time of Cup of China.
Vincent explained the jumps extensively. Turned out he spoke really good Chinese (and the host could tell his family was from Beijing from the way he said things). He switched back to English later in the show.
As far as I remember, they said his parents graduated from Chinghua University and then moved to Silicon Valley. Mom quit her high paying job to help Vincent Zhou with his skating career. During competitions, she preferred to sit by herself.
At a young age, Vincent was told to choose between skating and football (I took that to mean soccer); he chose skating. His mom is still cooking for him and he loves his mom's cooking. He was inspired by Boitano in 1988.
The show showed clips of his practices 2 days before the beginning of Cup of China. He fell a lot, pulled some muscles and had to see a Dr. Chen. The doctor even came to practice to check on him!
The show also showed clips of his relatives in China, including his grandfather, meeting him at the competition for a family gathering.
They mentioned his GP results this season and then talked about his blog post reflecting on his less than satisfactory experience (already mentioned here). He also recited an English poem he composed at the end.

@jlai, is this what you watched? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3jdSerMBPc
(Belated thanks for your summary!)

 

[pinky166]

I believe Ross stated in an IN? article this was he last season as well...

Ross and Grant definitely mentioned would be their last season. I don’t know if Adam said anything officially but I would assume he’s done after this season too. As for the rest, who knows, but based on age I would guess Sean Rabbitt and Alex Johnson (both turn 28 in the spring), probably Max and Tim Dolenky (Max will be 26 in February, Timothy in July), maybe Jason Brown if he makes another Olympic team? Jason turns 23 in a couple weeks so he’s actually still fairly young, but given his injuries and lack of a consistent quad, if he makes another Olympic team, I could see him retiring from competition this season and moving to the show circuit. Age wise he could still definitely go for another quad, though.

Next year onward the main US men to look towards will likely be Zhou, Chen (assuming he sticks around and doesn’t go to med school right away), Kraznoshon, Torgashev, Pulkinen, and maybe someone like Savary.

 

[acraven]

Unless there's a serious chronic injury I don't know about, I'd be shocked to see Jason retire after this season.

 

[Sylvia]

I believe Ross stated in an IN? article this was he last season as well...

In the only IN article I recall (Ice Chips show back in April) that brought up the topic of retirement, the word "probably" was used. I was told informally at Skate America that Ross likely would wait until after the season before making a decision.

 

[skatfan]

I think Nathan will be looking to go Pre-med for his bachelors degree before going to medical school.

 

[Vagabond]

That might be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on this site.

 

[misskarne]

True. I'm not sure anything will hold a candle to Jason's EVILLE TEDDYBEAR PLOT of Skate America 2014.

IIRC the only formal announcement we've had is Grant's. I can't picture Ross or Alex going around again. Jason is young enough to go around one more time and may benefit from the technical regression that we might see in the next year or two. I can't picture Adam going another four years. I keep hearing conflicting information about Chen but he's so young, surely he'd give it another four years. And...I have no idea about Max. The GS interview earlier this season gave off the impression that he was fully intending to go around again, but the way he spoke in the IceTalk interview and the fact that he will be 26 in February, and he's finishing up his degree this year, leaves me with that gut-wrenching feeling...

Another question mark in all of this is Joshua. He'll be 23 in January but he's been out for two years, and if he were to come back and stay relatively injury-free he could easily do another four years. I can picture him coming back into it in the post-Olympic year and sweeping us all off our feet again

 

[LilJen]

I had a moment of sad yesterday. Today I've moved onto kick their asses Max and even if you can't force their hand make them look stupid in the process.

That might be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on this site. Yes, Max gets so many scoring favours from USFS, so many, that's why he's a twice National Cham- oh, wait. He's not. Yes, Max gets so many scoring favours from USFS, that's why he's already been to the Olym- oh, wait. He hasn't. Yes, Max gets so many scoring favours from USFS, that's why he got 91 PCS - oh, wait.

Max has never gotten any scoring favours from USFS. His PCS inflation at Nationals is consistently one of the lowest inflations and then he's double-punished by the marshmallow tech panels who don't call other skaters' URs. Even in 2016 when his SP - with quad-triple - was utterly perfect, he still scored lower than Jason's quadless SP the year before. It's a big day for him when he gets a five-point bump in PCS at Nationals - you'd certainly never see him getting a seventeen point bump like Rippon did in 2015.

I would be happy to see Max kick ass at Nationals. He just HAS TO clean up his jump landings and improve his spins. He has that degree of slop on jump landings (often breaks at waist on landings, bobbles, trips, etc, and will tack on a double instead of a triple in a combo) and on spins (slow, not as stretched as they could be, though I know he has back issues) that Adam and Jason don't. Adam and Jason are, more often than not, squeaky clean and high GOE on everything. Even if they botch quad attempts, they make up for it in positive GOE on absolutely every other element. Max has *got* to commit to *every* element being as clean and perfect as possible. If he can do that, he'll beat them.

 

[Willin]

I think if this season's shown us anything it's that "older" men can still be relevant (Adam is 28, Voronov is 30).

I definitely think Josh could return and make a run for 2022 if he wants (he'll be 27 then), but who knows if he actually wants to. I hope he would want to come back because I love his skating, but he's faced so many setbacks mentally (regarding if he wants to risk injury by doing more quads) and physically that I don't know if he would want to continue.
With how much Max improved over the summer, I think he might be able to stick around if he chooses (29 in 2022) and improve his results in competition.
I think Jason will stick around (27 in December 2022). He definitely still enjoys skating, and he probably has more of a career in skating than other US Men (that is, he's great for shows, very popular in Japan - where the $$$ in skating is, and he is good for TV performances). Also, as opposed to some of the other mens' skaters, he doesn't seem to be in college or trying choreography/coaching, so it doesn't seem like he's ready to leave skating. Like Max, he also has improvements he could realistically make between now and 2022 to improve his results.

 

[pinky166]

I think Nathan will be looking to go Pre-med for his bachelors degree before going to medical school.

That’s what I mean. If he wanted to do college at the normal age and medals at the Olympics, I could see him retiring/leaving temporarily for a few years to go to college. Or he could continue to compete and put off his college and med school plans until later.

 

[misskarne]

I definitely think Josh could return and make a run for 2022 if he wants (he'll be 27 then), but who knows if he actually wants to. I hope he would want to come back because I love his skating, but he's faced so many setbacks mentally (regarding if he wants to risk injury by doing more quads) and physically that I don't know if he would want to continue.
With how much Max improved over the summer, I think he might be able to stick around if he chooses (29 in 2022) and improve his results in competition.
I think Jason will stick around (27 in December 2022). He definitely still enjoys skating, and he probably has more of a career in skating than other US Men (that is, he's great for shows, very popular in Japan - where the $$$ in skating is, and he is good for TV performances). Also, as opposed to some of the other mens' skaters, he doesn't seem to be in college or trying choreography/coaching, so it doesn't seem like he's ready to leave skating. Like Max, he also has improvements he could realistically make between now and 2022 to improve his results.

The idea of veteran "silver foxes" Max, Josh and Jason still kicking open doors and forcefully reminding everyone they exist in four years time is making me smile a lot. Especially when I imagine how much better skaters all three would be in four years.

 

[jlai]

@jlai, is this what you watched? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3jdSerMBPc
(Belated thanks for your summary!)

Yes. Now that I get to watch the first five minutes (which I missed):
The host said he spoke good Chinese. He said his accent is good but has limited vocabulary. (He obviously didn't understand the term the host brought up about Tiger Wood's golf.) his parents speak Chinese to him and he answers in English but says a few things in Chinese every day. Going by his vocab I can now see what he normally talks about! He also said there is no such thing as best skater, only the best that day, and some skaters are good at jumps or good at performance, etc. he also said he cried when thinking of his Olympic dream. The commentary also mentioned five skaters in the hunt for theee spots so they must know it is down to the same five we discussed.

 

[Impromptu]

I think Jason will stick around (27 in December 2022). He definitely still enjoys skating, and he probably has more of a career in skating than other US Men (that is, he's great for shows, very popular in Japan - where the $$$ in skating is, and he is good for TV performances). Also, as opposed to some of the other mens' skaters, he doesn't seem to be in college or trying choreography/coaching, so it doesn't seem like he's ready to leave skating. Like Max, he also has improvements he could realistically make between now and 2022 to improve his results.

I just listened to PJ Kwong's interview with Jason and he said he's a college Sophomore, with the goals of both commentating and becoming a teacher (he reiterated that he wants to teach English in Japan). He also mentioned that he couldn't see himself competing "10 years from now" ... but he didn't say anything about the next 4 years.

It's a really interesting interview... she asks questions that are a little more outside the box.

 

[Sylvia]

I just listened to PJ Kwong's interview with Jason and he said he's a college Sophomore, with the goals of both commentating and becoming a teacher (he reiterated that he wants to teach English in Japan). He also mentioned that he couldn't see himself competing "10 years from now" ... but he didn't say anything about the next 4 years.

It's a really interesting interview... she asks questions that are a little more outside the box.

Link to the interview is posted here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-related-interviews.95030/page-2#post-5200757

 

[Firedancer]

Nathan said in this NBC interview he would like to go four more years.
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/10/30/nathan-chen/

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Before you count out Zhou, remember he also had a good first jgp, mediocre second jgp, mediocre senior B where he pulled out midway if memory serves, then came back roaring at nationals and then repeated his success in jr world. I don't know if USFS will send him, but I don't discount the possibility of him rocking as in really rocking, at nationals.

This is the most likely scenario. If Vincent hits his quads he'll podium at Nats. and go. This will be remembered as the quad Olys and thems that got'em win.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Jason turns 23 in a couple weeks so he’s actually still fairly young, but given his injuries and lack of a consistent quad, if he makes another Olympic team, I could see him retiring from competition this season and moving to the show circuit. Age wise he could still definitely go for another quad, though.
.

In Jason's case it might depend on what happens to IJS. Right now quadsters get the big numbers with no down side. (If they sort of do it they get 9-10 points. Thinking of Kolyada at Ros. Cup flygin through the air at 45 degree angle.) If the number of jumping passes is reduced and the -5 to +5 GOE scale implemented that could change. Jason is close to a quad or 2. And the new scoring would benefit his more balanced skating.

 

[skatingguy]

Jason Brown‏Verified account @jasonbskates 10h10 hours ago
Reppin' @usfigureskating & @teamusa at the Festival of Lights in @cityofcos!!! ぼくとぼくのチームメイト！

https://twitter.com/jasonbskates/status/937151984674725889

 

[Bellanca]

Nathan said in this NBC interview he would like to go four more years.
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/10/30/nathan-chen/

I am inclined to think that Nathan is more than capable of successfully managing four more years of competitive skating and his education. He has the right amount of motivation and discipline. I do hope he is fully invested into the next quad, and of course, his fans would love it! I know his (((family))) would be a nervous wreck, but we'd help them through it!

 

[Firedancer]

I am inclined to think that Nathan is more than capable of successfully managing four more years of competitive skating and his education. He has the right amount of motivation and discipline. I do hope he is fully invested into the next quad, and of course, his fans would love it! I know his (((family))) would be a nervous wreck, but we'd help them through it!

Of course we would! I agreed with what he said in the article...that this is just the start of his career and he has not accomplished enough yet. I feel like he is just getting started.

 

[olympic]

Ross and Grant definitely mentioned would be their last season. I don’t know if Adam said anything officially but I would assume he’s done after this season too. As for the rest, who knows, but based on age I would guess Sean Rabbitt and Alex Johnson (both turn 28 in the spring), probably Max and Tim Dolenky (Max will be 26 in February, Timothy in July), maybe Jason Brown if he makes another Olympic team? Jason turns 23 in a couple weeks so he’s actually still fairly young, but given his injuries and lack of a consistent quad, if he makes another Olympic team, I could see him retiring from competition this season and moving to the show circuit. Age wise he could still definitely go for another quad, though.

Next year onward the main US men to look towards will likely be Zhou, Chen (assuming he sticks around and doesn’t go to med school right away), Kraznoshon, Torgashev, Pulkinen, and maybe someone like Savary.

I basically agree w/ all that you posted.

Grant announced his retirement and Ross has stated 'probably'. So, I think he will be gone after this season.

For some reason, I recall an inference recently by Tim that he had other interests in life and gave the impression that he was going to leave competitive skating soon. I think I remember something similar from Alex J. Plus, Alex is older than I thought. It seems like he made a name for himself only recently, so in my mind, I think he seemed younger than he actually is. I am not sure if either will retire but it would not be surprising if they did.

Max is a couple of years younger than Grant, so I was a little surprised when someone posted upthread that he will be done w/ competitive skating this year.

I do think Jason is young enough to stick around and his comments do not suggest he is leaving the sport just yet.

I'd be shocked if Adam did NOT retire. He is an 80s baby.

For the future, I would say US skating is in good hands post Olympic season - Chen, Zhou, Brown (probably), and the 4 juniors moving up.

ETA - I will wager that Josh does not come back and that is too bad.

 

[Mrs. P]

The body-of-work guidelines are not hard and set in stone as far as weighing, so I don't think having three men qualify for GPF mean those three are a lock for the Olympic team. It certainly helps their case and I think it would be a point of consideration, but I still don't think it's not strong enough to bail Adam or Jason out if they do poorly at Nationals.

All four men not named Nathan have scored SBs the 260s and have free skate scores in the 170s. In comparison, Jason had a 55 point gap (268) on Vincent (213+) in season's best leading up to last season's Nationals. Jason also had a pretty high gap on Max (26 points). Adam was the only skater who nearly matched Jason's score in the GP season, and he was out due to injury. Vincent would close in on that gap at Junior Worlds, but the selection committee had no way of knowing that at the time. There's nothing like that among the four men this season: The gap Adam has on the rest of the non-Nathan field is 5 points. (Nathan's gap on the other U.S. men is 27 points. ) We'll see whether any of those numbers change at GPF.

But for now: I don't think that none of the four men who are not Nathan have a sizable advantage in BOW that would disregard a non-top 3 Nationals placement. Not to mention the fact that there's that provision (though I'm not sure if it's officially in the Olympic criteria) that to even to considered you have to finish in the top 5 at Nationals. So if any one of Jason/Adam (and I'm not wishing or hoping for this to happen) finish outside top 5, GPF won't matter. And if Nathan ends up finishing out of top 5, you know something is very very wrong (again, not hoping this, just staying that it would take a WHOLE lot for Nathan to be in danger of not making the Olympic team)

As for retirements, I don't see Jason retiring. He loves skating and the while privately the multi-quad thing might frustrate him as far as his competitive goals, he ultimately wants to perform and the best way to do that is to keep competing. Also it's interesting to note, per his interview PJ, that he has not said anything about coaching or choreography -- he might do shows, but it sounds like he really wants to go on the communications/marketing side of the sport.

 

[ilovepaydays]

And...I have no idea about Max. The GS interview earlier this season gave off the impression that he was fully intending to go around again, but the way he spoke in the IceTalk interview and the fact that he will be 26 in February, and he's finishing up his degree this year, leaves me with that gut-wrenching feeling...

I thought Max was interested in going to graduate school for his MBA (or even law) in the near future.

 

[Sylvia]

I thought Max was interested in going to graduate school for his MBA (or even law) in the near future.

MBA seems likely - from this Q&A: http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/qa-max-aaron-olympic-figure-skating

What would you be doing if you were not an athlete?

Wealth management for JP Morgan

 

[Sylvia]

For some reason, I recall an inference recently by Tim that he had other interests in life and gave the impression that he was going to leave competitive skating soon.

My impression is that Dolensky is a "late bloomer" as a skater and is likely to continue past this season since he only relocated to the Cains' training base in Dallas earlier this year.