U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[Karen-W]

There sed to be an ISU page that tracked points for the GP final. I can't find anywhere. Does someone know?

ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating

The ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Series started in 1995 and consists of six international senior invitational events and the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final. The skaters are seeded and invited to the six Grand Prix of Figure Skating events based on the results of the previous ISU...

www.isu.org

Click on the Standings for each discipline. I know it says "Last Updated June 18" but that's not correct. They were all updated today after IdF.

 

[misskarne]

I believe, basically, Jason needs Semenenko to not be first or second; or if he's second, to score lower than 260 (IIRC). Since that will be a Russian score in Russia, Jason will be relying solely on the result, rather than the score.

Ah, seven tenths of a point...

 

[haribobo]

SENIOR MEN 2022 Nationals complete field (Unofficial)

International Scores
Nathan Chen 307
Vincent Zhou 295
Jason Brown 264
Ilia Malinin 245
Jimmy Ma 228
Maxim Naumov 223 (Cranberry)
Tomoki Hiwatashi 221
Yaroslav Paniot 210 (Cranberry)
Camden Pulkinen 204

Qualifying Scores
Eric Sjoberg 227
Liam Kapeikis 215
Mitchell Friess 205
Ryan Dunk 197
Sebastien Payannet 193
Paul Yeung 192
Artur Dmitriev Jr. 189
Dinh Tran 189
William Hubbart 184

 

[olympic]

I admire the JPN men (ETA - Russia, too). They are both developing a deep back-bench. However, in the US, there are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Ilia on a good day, then an enormous drop-off ... SIGH

 

[Spiralgraph]

I admire the JPN men (ETA - Russia, too). They are both developing a deep back-bench. However, in the US, there are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Ilia on a good day, then an enormous drop-off ... SIGH

I remember not too far back when the US had only one male podium probability/possibility per Olympic cycle. But I agree we're not as deep as Russia or Japan..at least not yet.

 

[RoseRed]

I believe, basically, Jason needs Semenenko to not be first or second; or if he's second, to score lower than 260 (IIRC). Since that will be a Russian score in Russia, Jason will be relying solely on the result, rather than the score.

Ah, seven tenths of a point...

If Semenenko is 2nd, he needs a score of 267.75 to beat Jason's total points from the two events.

 

[morgan rye]

What is going on with him? Didn't he miss Nationals last year too?

yes i was wondering if anyone had any info on him. is he still in california?? reinjured?? or head trip??

 

[layman]

I admire the JPN men (ETA - Russia, too). They are both developing a deep back-bench. However, in the US, there are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Ilia on a good day, then an enormous drop-off ... SIGH

I don't see an enormous drop off...with new seniors like Naumov and new Americans like Paniot or returning Americans like Artur Dmitriev Jr. and you can never count out Tomoki and Jimmy who usually have their acts together by Nationals. The US Men's field right now (to my eyes) looks like the deepest in the World.

Looking towards the future (when our current top 3 have retired or moved on to other things) its going to be those men vs the Japanese and Russians. I would say that we are in good hands.

 

[Sylvia]

Ilia Malinin's latest practice clips: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWeTEPcLDdZ/

Rippon's comment: "Omg. I’m laughing because this is insane!!!!!!!!!!! You are crazy"

 

[Karen-W]

Ilia Malinin's latest practice clips: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWeTEPcLDdZ/

Rippon's comment: "Omg. I’m laughing because this is insane!!!!!!!!!!! You are crazy"

Right?! I mean, say he gets that consistent enough to put in competition... How do you even, accurately, value the difficulty of a 3z+4lo?

 

[sk9tingfan]

Ilia Malinin's latest practice clips: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWeTEPcLDdZ/

Rippon's comment: "Omg. I’m laughing because this is insane!!!!!!!!!!! You are crazy"

Absolutely flawless!

 

[skatingguy]

Right?! I mean, say he gets that consistent enough to put in competition... How do you even, accurately, value the difficulty of a 3z+4lo?

The real benefit could come if he could do a quad-quad combo.

4Lz+4T, 4Lz, 4F, 4Lo, 4S, 3A+3T, 3A+1E+3S

The quad toe, or quad loop could go after any of the solo quads, or the triple axel.

 

[wickedwitch]

The real benefit could come if he could do a quad-quad combo.

4Lz+4T, 4Lz, 4F, 4Lo, 4S, 3A+3T, 3A+1E+3S

The quad toe, or quad loop could go after any of the solo quads, or the triple axel.

4Lz+4T and 3A+3T is worth the same as 4Lz+3T and 3A+4T.

The current system puts very little value on being able to do a 4-4 combo. Unless he also had a 4A.

 

[tony]

4Lz+4T and 3A+3T is worth the same as 4Lz+3T and 3A+4T.

The current system puts very little value on being able to do a 4-4 combo. Unless he also had a 4A.

Right! This is something I've constantly questioned since about 2010. Difficult jumps done as the second or third jump in combo should have some kind of bonus addition in base value IMO, ie. a triple done as a second or third jump gets 1.1x the value, a quad done as the second or third jump (some day.. who knows) gets 1.2x the value, or whatever.

Malinin's LP setup from Austria was:
4Lz, 4T, 3A, 4S, 4T+Eu+3S*, 3Lz+3T*, 3Lz+3Lo* , for a total of 77.42 in jump vase value. 4 quads.

Under these new hypotheticals, it's reasonable to think he can attempt (not necessarily fully rotate) the following:
4Lz, 4S, 3F+4Lo, 3Lz+4T, 4T*, 3A+Eu+3S*, 3A* (here, I'm putting three of the relatively 'easier' jumping passes in the bonus elements). This moves his base value up to 85.73 and potentially higher if the 3+4's come in the second half. 5 quads. But a few things: to maximize points, he would have to do a 3F+quad on one of those combos rather than two 3Lz, and two 3A instead of one- which is a question mark.

If he can do a 4Lo on the end of a triple, then the quad alone may be there, too.

The 8+ points he's gaining for those insane combo risks just isn't really worth it IMO. A << on either and it's going to sink his score.

 

[sheetz]

I don't see an enormous drop off...with new seniors like Naumov and new Americans like Paniot or returning Americans like Artur Dmitriev Jr. and you can never count out Tomoki and Jimmy who usually have their acts together by Nationals. The US Men's field right now (to my eyes) looks like the deepest in the World.

Looking towards the future (when our current top 3 have retired or moved on to other things) its going to be those men vs the Japanese and Russians. I would say that we are in good hands

Right now Russia has by far the greatest depth in the men's discipline. Looking at the list of this season's top scores Russia leads with 14 of the top 50 men. Japan is next with 8. USA has 6 and Canada has 5.

 

[Karen-W]

Right now Russia has by far the greatest depth in the men's discipline. Looking at the list of this season's top scores Russia leads with 14 of the top 50 men. Japan is next with 8. USA has 6 and Canada has 5.

Russian junior men become Russian senior men. And those Russian senior men are gonna Russian senior men on us. If you think we've got reason to bemoan the fact that Torgashev, Hiwatashi & Pulkinen haven't panned out at the senior level despite their wild junior success, Russians have even more reason to bemoan (or trash if you're Yagudin) the lack of success by Russian men when they turn senior.

 

[sheetz]

Russian junior men become Russian senior men. And those Russian senior men are gonna Russian senior men on us. If you think we've got reason to bemoan the fact that Torgashev, Hiwatashi & Pulkinen haven't panned out at the senior level despite their wild junior success, Russians have even more reason to bemoan (or trash if you're Yagudin) the lack of success by Russian men when they turn senior.

The Russians don't have the top medal contenders that USA and Japan have, but they've got tons of inconsistent 2nd tier guys who could contend on any given day. USA's 2nd tier really can't compare with Russia's 2nd tier.

 

[wickedwitch]

Russian junior men become Russian senior men. And those Russian senior men are gonna Russian senior men on us. If you think we've got reason to bemoan the fact that Torgashev, Hiwatashi & Pulkinen haven't panned out at the senior level despite their wild junior success, Russians have even more reason to bemoan (or trash if you're Yagudin) the lack of success by Russian men when they turn senior.

Yeah, But Japanese men still have a slight advantage.

 

[Karen-W]

Yeah, But Japanese men still have a slight advantage.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing on that point. I do think the Japanese men's field is deeper than the US men's field right now.

 

[Jammers]

I remember not too far back when the US had only one male podium probability/possibility per Olympic cycle. But I agree we're not as deep as Russia or Japan..at least not yet.

The US has been the deepest country when it comes to the men for much of the last i mean Japan was basically just Hanyu and Uno for

I remember not too far back when the US had only one male podium probability/possibility per Olympic cycle. But I agree we're not as deep as Russia or Japan..at least not yet.

I admire the JPN men (ETA - Russia, too). They are both developing a deep back-bench. However, in the US, there are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Ilia on a good day, then an enormous drop-off ... SIGH

In the past 7-8 years or so the US for the most part had the best depth in mens if you were talking about the skaters from 1-10 what was lacking until Nathan was a world contender. Japan after 2014 lost their depth and for a few years it was basically just Hanyu and Uno until recently. With all the retirements after 2018 and the fact that the next group of US men coming up have been a disappointment the US has a gap right now and only Ilia has really shown promise so it might take this current crop of Junior skaters to build depth again and that will take years.

 

[skatingguy]

4Lz+4T and 3A+3T is worth the same as 4Lz+3T and 3A+4T.

The current system puts very little value on being able to do a 4-4 combo. Unless he also had a 4A.

Actually the 2nd version is worth more because the 4T would be in the bonus. I put the 4T on the 4Lz because that made it easiest to keep track of which jumps I had used.

 

[Sylvia]

Fan Zone article on Camden Pulkinen by @clairecloutier before he competes at Rostelecom Cup in Sochi:

Camden Pulkinen - “I believe in myself” - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Mariah Bell knows how important the next couple of months are for an athlete-- after all, she has been in this position twice before. With a spot on the U.S. Olympic

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

Dealing with emotions and nerves in competition is a continuous challenge, Pulkinen acknowledges--for him and for all skaters.
"Everyone can do everything in practice. Or if you had 30 tries to do something," Pulkinen mused. "But you get one shot. And it's in competition, under bright lights. So you've got to be prepared."
An important aspect of Pulkinen's preparation is working with a sports psychologist on the United States Olympic & Paralympic Committee staff. "He's been really helpful in just being mindful, and aware of the thoughts that I have," said Pulkinen, noting U.S. Figure Skating encourages athletes to get mental health coaching support.
Even with preparation, the pressures of elite-level figure skating are hard to manage. "It's obviously really difficult," Pulkinen admitted. "But I've been working a lot on this. I think that the mind is like a muscle. The more you train your mind to deal with all these distractions that you will feel at a competition, the better you'll be able to deal with it when it matters."

ETA that Maxim Naumov had to WD from his GP debut at Rostelecom Cup but filmed this Q&A at Champs Camp a few months ago: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWlvL5EJlHX/

 

[Tavi]

Fan Zone article on Camden Pulkinen by @clairecloutier before he competes at Rostelecom Cup in Sochi:

Camden Pulkinen - “I believe in myself” - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Mariah Bell knows how important the next couple of months are for an athlete-- after all, she has been in this position twice before. With a spot on the U.S. Olympic

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

ETA that Maxim Naumov had to WD from his GP debut at Rostelecom Cup but filmed this Q&A at Champs Camp a few months ago: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWlvL5EJlHX/

Thanks for posting these, Sylvia!

@clairecloutier, that was a really nice interview with Camden - hoping all his hard work pays off at Rostelecom!

The Q&A with Maxim is really funny - who knew you could think so deeply about ice cream toppings! Hoping he’s on the road to recovery.

 

[olympic]

^He really stepped up in the SP today, BTW, and the overall standings are quite a shock and unexpected. Hint - Something wrong w. the Russian Men

 

[sk9tingfan]

Phil Hersh points out that US Men will represent 4 out of 6 GPF spots

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1464604368670441477/photo/1

 

[Karen-W]

Phil Hersh points out that US Men will represent 4 out of 6 GPF spots

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1464604368670441477/photo/1

Huh? 3 out of 6 in the Sr GPF and 1 out of 7 on the JGPF equals 4 out of 13 spots...

 

[olympic]

Shout-out to Camden for putting it out there again in the LP at RC. He fell (but rotated) the 4T and nailed everything else, scoring 237 total which puts him at U.S. #5 (?) this season. There was a time not too long ago in the world of US men's skating when that was a top score

 

[sk9tingfan]

Huh? 3 out of 6 in the Sr GPF and 1 out of 7 on the JGPF equals 4 out of 13 spots...

I guess Phil goofed...












phil goofed?

 

[Frau Muller]

We’re all abuzz about Ilia Malinin possibly being the “interloper” at US Sr Nationals but…whatever happened to Yaro Paniot after his quirky withdrawal from an early-fall Challenger (Lombardía?)?

 

[sk9tingfan]

I guess Phil goofed...












phil goofed?

Someone after I posted the four spots questioned it causing me to immediately think that Phil and I were wrong. But we were right!