U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

Karen-W

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13,459
There sed to be an ISU page that tracked points for the GP final. I can't find anywhere. Does someone know?

Click on the Standings for each discipline. I know it says "Last Updated June 18" but that's not correct. They were all updated today after IdF.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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21,688
I believe, basically, Jason needs Semenenko to not be first or second; or if he's second, to score lower than 260 (IIRC). Since that will be a Russian score in Russia, Jason will be relying solely on the result, rather than the score.

Ah, seven tenths of a point...
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
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8,575
SENIOR MEN 2022 Nationals complete field (Unofficial)

International Scores
Nathan Chen 307
Vincent Zhou 295
Jason Brown 264
Ilia Malinin 245
Jimmy Ma 228
Maxim Naumov 223 (Cranberry)
Tomoki Hiwatashi 221
Yaroslav Paniot 210 (Cranberry)
Camden Pulkinen 204

Qualifying Scores
Eric Sjoberg 227
Liam Kapeikis 215
Mitchell Friess 205
Ryan Dunk 197
Sebastien Payannet 193
Paul Yeung 192
Artur Dmitriev Jr. 189
Dinh Tran 189
William Hubbart 184
 

olympic

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10,321
I admire the JPN men (ETA - Russia, too). They are both developing a deep back-bench. However, in the US, there are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Ilia on a good day, then an enormous drop-off ... SIGH
 
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Spiralgraph

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2,590
I admire the JPN men (ETA - Russia, too). They are both developing a deep back-bench. However, in the US, there are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Ilia on a good day, then an enormous drop-off ... SIGH
I remember not too far back when the US had only one male podium probability/possibility per Olympic cycle. But I agree we're not as deep as Russia or Japan..at least not yet.
 

RoseRed

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1,973
I believe, basically, Jason needs Semenenko to not be first or second; or if he's second, to score lower than 260 (IIRC). Since that will be a Russian score in Russia, Jason will be relying solely on the result, rather than the score.

Ah, seven tenths of a point...
If Semenenko is 2nd, he needs a score of 267.75 to beat Jason's total points from the two events.
 

layman

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390
I admire the JPN men (ETA - Russia, too). They are both developing a deep back-bench. However, in the US, there are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Ilia on a good day, then an enormous drop-off ... SIGH
I don't see an enormous drop off...with new seniors like Naumov and new Americans like Paniot or returning Americans like Artur Dmitriev Jr. and you can never count out Tomoki and Jimmy who usually have their acts together by Nationals. The US Men's field right now (to my eyes) looks like the deepest in the World.

Looking towards the future (when our current top 3 have retired or moved on to other things) its going to be those men vs the Japanese and Russians. I would say that we are in good hands.
 
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wickedwitch

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The real benefit could come if he could do a quad-quad combo.

4Lz+4T, 4Lz, 4F, 4Lo, 4S, 3A+3T, 3A+1E+3S

The quad toe, or quad loop could go after any of the solo quads, or the triple axel.
4Lz+4T and 3A+3T is worth the same as 4Lz+3T and 3A+4T.

The current system puts very little value on being able to do a 4-4 combo. Unless he also had a 4A.
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
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11,816
4Lz+4T and 3A+3T is worth the same as 4Lz+3T and 3A+4T.

The current system puts very little value on being able to do a 4-4 combo. Unless he also had a 4A.
Right! This is something I've constantly questioned since about 2010. Difficult jumps done as the second or third jump in combo should have some kind of bonus addition in base value IMO, ie. a triple done as a second or third jump gets 1.1x the value, a quad done as the second or third jump (some day.. who knows) gets 1.2x the value, or whatever.

Malinin's LP setup from Austria was:
4Lz, 4T, 3A, 4S, 4T+Eu+3S*, 3Lz+3T*, 3Lz+3Lo* , for a total of 77.42 in jump vase value. 4 quads.

Under these new hypotheticals, it's reasonable to think he can attempt (not necessarily fully rotate) the following:
4Lz, 4S, 3F+4Lo, 3Lz+4T, 4T*, 3A+Eu+3S*, 3A* (here, I'm putting three of the relatively 'easier' jumping passes in the bonus elements). This moves his base value up to 85.73 and potentially higher if the 3+4's come in the second half. 5 quads. But a few things: to maximize points, he would have to do a 3F+quad on one of those combos rather than two 3Lz, and two 3A instead of one- which is a question mark.

If he can do a 4Lo on the end of a triple, then the quad alone may be there, too.

The 8+ points he's gaining for those insane combo risks just isn't really worth it IMO. A << on either and it's going to sink his score.
 

sheetz

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226
I don't see an enormous drop off...with new seniors like Naumov and new Americans like Paniot or returning Americans like Artur Dmitriev Jr. and you can never count out Tomoki and Jimmy who usually have their acts together by Nationals. The US Men's field right now (to my eyes) looks like the deepest in the World.

Looking towards the future (when our current top 3 have retired or moved on to other things) its going to be those men vs the Japanese and Russians. I would say that we are in good hands

Right now Russia has by far the greatest depth in the men's discipline. Looking at the list of this season's top scores Russia leads with 14 of the top 50 men. Japan is next with 8. USA has 6 and Canada has 5.
 

Karen-W

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13,459
Right now Russia has by far the greatest depth in the men's discipline. Looking at the list of this season's top scores Russia leads with 14 of the top 50 men. Japan is next with 8. USA has 6 and Canada has 5.
Russian junior men become Russian senior men. And those Russian senior men are gonna Russian senior men on us. If you think we've got reason to bemoan the fact that Torgashev, Hiwatashi & Pulkinen haven't panned out at the senior level despite their wild junior success, Russians have even more reason to bemoan (or trash if you're Yagudin) the lack of success by Russian men when they turn senior.
 

sheetz

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226
Russian junior men become Russian senior men. And those Russian senior men are gonna Russian senior men on us. If you think we've got reason to bemoan the fact that Torgashev, Hiwatashi & Pulkinen haven't panned out at the senior level despite their wild junior success, Russians have even more reason to bemoan (or trash if you're Yagudin) the lack of success by Russian men when they turn senior.
The Russians don't have the top medal contenders that USA and Japan have, but they've got tons of inconsistent 2nd tier guys who could contend on any given day. USA's 2nd tier really can't compare with Russia's 2nd tier.
 

wickedwitch

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Russian junior men become Russian senior men. And those Russian senior men are gonna Russian senior men on us. If you think we've got reason to bemoan the fact that Torgashev, Hiwatashi & Pulkinen haven't panned out at the senior level despite their wild junior success, Russians have even more reason to bemoan (or trash if you're Yagudin) the lack of success by Russian men when they turn senior.
Yeah, But Japanese men still have a slight advantage.
 

Jammers

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7,063
I remember not too far back when the US had only one male podium probability/possibility per Olympic cycle. But I agree we're not as deep as Russia or Japan..at least not yet.
The US has been the deepest country when it comes to the men for much of the last i mean Japan was basically just Hanyu and Uno for
I remember not too far back when the US had only one male podium probability/possibility per Olympic cycle. But I agree we're not as deep as Russia or Japan..at least not yet.

I admire the JPN men (ETA - Russia, too). They are both developing a deep back-bench. However, in the US, there are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Ilia on a good day, then an enormous drop-off ... SIGH
In the past 7-8 years or so the US for the most part had the best depth in mens if you were talking about the skaters from 1-10 what was lacking until Nathan was a world contender. Japan after 2014 lost their depth and for a few years it was basically just Hanyu and Uno until recently. With all the retirements after 2018 and the fact that the next group of US men coming up have been a disappointment the US has a gap right now and only Ilia has really shown promise so it might take this current crop of Junior skaters to build depth again and that will take years.
 
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Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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68,716
Fan Zone article on Camden Pulkinen by @clairecloutier before he competes at Rostelecom Cup in Sochi:
Dealing with emotions and nerves in competition is a continuous challenge, Pulkinen acknowledges--for him and for all skaters.
"Everyone can do everything in practice. Or if you had 30 tries to do something," Pulkinen mused. "But you get one shot. And it's in competition, under bright lights. So you've got to be prepared."
An important aspect of Pulkinen's preparation is working with a sports psychologist on the United States Olympic & Paralympic Committee staff. "He's been really helpful in just being mindful, and aware of the thoughts that I have," said Pulkinen, noting U.S. Figure Skating encourages athletes to get mental health coaching support.
Even with preparation, the pressures of elite-level figure skating are hard to manage. "It's obviously really difficult," Pulkinen admitted. "But I've been working a lot on this. I think that the mind is like a muscle. The more you train your mind to deal with all these distractions that you will feel at a competition, the better you'll be able to deal with it when it matters."
ETA that Maxim Naumov had to WD from his GP debut at Rostelecom Cup :( but filmed this Q&A at Champs Camp a few months ago: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWlvL5EJlHX/
 

Tavi

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2,198
Fan Zone article on Camden Pulkinen by @clairecloutier before he competes at Rostelecom Cup in Sochi:

ETA that Maxim Naumov had to WD from his GP debut at Rostelecom Cup :( but filmed this Q&A at Champs Camp a few months ago: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWlvL5EJlHX/
Thanks for posting these, Sylvia!

@clairecloutier, that was a really nice interview with Camden - hoping all his hard work pays off at Rostelecom!

The Q&A with Maxim is really funny - who knew you could think so deeply about ice cream toppings! Hoping he’s on the road to recovery.
 

olympic

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Shout-out to Camden for putting it out there again in the LP at RC. He fell (but rotated) the 4T and nailed everything else, scoring 237 total which puts him at U.S. #5 (?) this season. There was a time not too long ago in the world of US men's skating when that was a top score :eek:
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico, via Russia - to the World!
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16,064
We’re all abuzz about Ilia Malinin possibly being the “interloper” at US Sr Nationals but…whatever happened to Yaro Paniot after his quirky withdrawal from an early-fall Challenger (Lombardía?)?
 

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