U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[becca]

Vincent's BoW:
Skate America - 1st
Nebelhorn 1st
NHK - 2nd
GPF finalist
2019 Worlds - Bronze
2019 4cc - Bronze

I'm not the biggest fan of Zhou, but he's earned his stripes.

Once again how was Illia suppose to earn it given the fact that juniors was closed last year. Zhou didn’t have much of a body of work In 2018.

They could have done a skate of at Four Continents I bet Illia would have beaten Brown there too

 

[once_upon]

Alysa trains at the World Arena which is where Karen and Vincent also train and they're essentially working with the same folks - Alysa's main coach, Drew Meekins, choreographed Karen's new SP, and Karen & Vincent both work with Tammy G & Tom Z.

Mariah & Nathan both train at Great Parks, which is where the Meno/Sand pairs teams train.

And then there's the IAM dance teams - which is just one bad exposure away from wiping out about half the Olympic dance team entries as has been pointed out in the Dance Hall thread.

A blood bath in the making

 

[Rukia]

In other news, Tomoki confirms that C19 was what kept him home. But he's feeling fine now. https://www.instagram.com/p/CYh1EaLuilq/?utm_medium=copy_link

Booooo this is the real tragedy of this nationals

 

[once_upon]

Someone posted above that there was an interview with Ilia about country shopping. If true, I don't think that it's wise.

I thought it was a passionate fan(s) who said he and his parents should. Not an official interview from him or his parents. Just passionate fans

 

[VGThuy]

Ilia is as American as I am and the likelihood of me switching countries for anything is close to none.

 

[topaz]

Once again how was Illia suppose to earn it given the fact that juniors was closed last year. Zhou didn’t have much of a body of work In 2018.

They could have done a skate of at Four Continents I bet Illia would have beaten Brown there too

I understand that Ilia and last years juniors.

I think the US is looking at the TE Gold. I do not think Ilia would outscore Jason in the SP in an international competition.

 

[Karen-W]

In other news, Tomoki confirms that C19 was what kept him home. But he's feeling fine now. https://www.instagram.com/p/CYh1EaLuilq/?utm_medium=copy_link

And he also trains at the World Arena. So, now we have two confirmed cases from World Arena athletes (Alysa & Tomoki), and at least four, possibly five confirmed cases from Great Parks (Brandon, Jenni, Todd S, Todd E, & Stephen Gogolev - not sure where he was training prior to heading to Ottawa), one confirmed case from Dallas (Amber), and at least one, possibly two from Cricket Club (Tracy Wilson & Stephen Gogolev - not sure if he was in Toronto or Irvine training). And we also know that the crud went around Montreal - might be a minor miracle that, so far, none of the IAM skaters have gotten it.

 

[canbelto]

Someone posted above that there was an interview with Ilia about country shopping. If true, I don't think that it's wise. And, again, who is the experienced and consistent well-performing woman you think was the person who should have been put on the Olympic team in place of Alyssa? You haven't said. Because there isn't one.

There's no interview about him switching countries. Only an interview where his lack of sentence structure got him the dreaded "P"* label.

*P = "problematic"

 

[CantALoop]

With all these emotions running high, can you imagine the drama if someone like Jimmy Ma somehow ended up on the podium and bumped both Vincent and Jason out of the top 3?

 

[PRlady]

I absolutely believe Malinin has about a 50% or more chance of being in Beijing. C0vid is too wild for all three to avoid it.

I just found out that the 5-month-old granddaughter I spent part of yesterday cuddling is crud-positive. About to do a rapid test. The point is we can all go out-of-order at any time and the skaters didn’t spend the weekend as I did, on the sofa. So congrats to the team and I hope they all make it to Beijing but life is a total wildcard right now.

 

[Baby Yoda On Skates]

Someone posted above that there was an interview with Ilia about country shopping. If true, I don't think that it's wise. And, again, who is the experienced and consistent well-performing woman you think was the person who should have been put on the Olympic team in place of Alyssa? You haven't said. Because there isn't one.

I'm the one who talked about Alysa getting shoved down everyone's throats. And her US titles are laughable with her slow skating and underrotated jumps that she presented at both of those championships.

But the US has no medal hopes with the US women because they just can't compete the big tricks consistently.

Ilia actually has the goods. Let him go out and get the experience with those tricks. Heck C19 could have wiped out a few and the US could have swept the podium in the men's event. I still haven't forgotten that Nathan won the Olympic LP because he did 6 quads.

 

[Tahuu]

Well, to be fair, both Brown and Zhou screwed it up today. Jason left points on the table and could have made it a lot closer of a finish to Malinin. And Zhou... He really fecked it up.

What is problematic, IMO, and this isn't just for the Men but also for the Women is that Group 2 ranking and how you qualify into it. Alysa wouldn't have been in Group 2 without that one outlier result from Lombardia Trophy. Vincent was, solidly, in Group 2, no matter how you slice it. But, what I could see is them eliminating the "Score once equal to Worlds Top 3" as an option for Group 2 and changing the Nats placement to Top 3 rather than Top 5.

USFS is in fact letting some obscure international judges at some random international competitions dictate their Olympic team selection. They should only count or amend it to only count scores from ISU GP and Championships for group 1 and 2 placements.

 

[once_upon]

I just found out that the 5-month-old granddaughter I spent part of yesterday cuddling is crud-positive. About to do a rapid test. The point is we can all go out-of-order at any time and the skaters didn’t spend the weekend as I did, on the sofa. So congrats to the team and I hope they all make it to Beijing but life is a total wildcard right now.

Oh I hope peanut, peanuts parents and grandparents are all ok.

 

[DreamSkates]

No, the plane is safer. they were wearing a mask on the plane

No, the plane is safer. they were wearing a mask on the plane

I would rather be in a car with someone I know, without a mask, than in a plane with multiple people and who knows if someone takes theirs off or has a mask that doesn’t fit well or has a mask with only one or 2 layers. That air gets recirculated.

 

[feraina]

Wow I totally didn’t anticipate this outcome! Well I do think a whole lot of fans will be really thrilled with Jason going. But perhaps the other countries/competitors will be relieved that Ilia won’t be there. I personally would’ve favored Jason, Ilia and Nathan. But oh well no one is asking my opinion.

It’s also quite likely that international senior judges will hold Ilia down in GOE and PCS. Although I totally disagree with the convention, international judges are generally very stingy with new seniors. I can’t imagine they would be as generous as the US judges.

 

[Allskate]

I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Someone already posted an interview that he had country shopped and Usbekistan had no funding and Russia had a lot of competition. It sucks they held him back but it seems that he receives funding and his parents are probably established coaches.

I thought it was a passionate fan(s) who said he and his parents should. Not an official interview from him or his parents. Just passionate fans

Thanks for answering my question and for the clarification. Someone had posted something upthread indicating that there was an interview saying that he had country shopped and Uzbekistan had no funding.

I feel really bad for Ilia. I would have felt bad for any of the top four guys being left off the Olympic team. I know that Ilia has to be upset and heartbroken. Hopefully it will just fuel his hunger for the future. And hopefully he'll still be preparing his best for the Olympics in Beijing because it's entirely possible that he will end up there.

 

[CantALoop]

Alysa trains at the World Arena which is where Karen and Vincent also train and they're essentially working with the same folks - Alysa's main coach, Drew Meekins, choreographed Karen's new SP, and Karen & Vincent both work with Tammy G & Tom Z.

Mariah & Nathan both train at Great Parks, which is where the Meno/Sand pairs teams train.

And then there's the IAM dance teams - which is just one bad exposure away from wiping out about half the Olympic dance team entries as has been pointed out in the Dance Hall thread.

A blood bath in the making

Red wedding, but make it on ice

 

[once_upon]

I would rather be in a car with someone I know, without a mask, than in a plane with multiple people and who knows if someone takes theirs off or has a mask that doesn’t fit well or has a mask with only one or 2 layers. That air gets recirculated.

Except the person in the car has c0vid. In a tiny confined space. In a long drive. We don't know masked or unmasked, or windows down.

 

[PRlady]

Oh I hope peanut, peanuts parents and grandparents are all ok.

My daughter and son in law are negative and I bet I am as well. Will see shortly.

 

[Evgeniafan]

I think

Once again how was Illia suppose to earn it given the fact that juniors was closed last year. Zhou didn’t have much of a body of work In 2018.

They could have done a skate of at Four Continents I bet Illia would have beaten Brown there too

Ilia would have beaten Zhou there too.

 

[becca]

I understand that Ilia and last years juniors.

I think the US is looking at the TE Gold. I do not think Ilia would outscore Jason in the SP in an international competition.

Didn’t realize the plan was to use Jason

 

[Wyliefan]

@PRlady, sorry to hear that. Best wishes and prayers for you and peanut.

 

[Mayra]

It’s also quite likely that international senior judges will hold Ilia down in GOE and PCS. Although I totally disagree with the convention, international judges are generally very stingy with new seniors. I can’t imagine they would be as generous as the US judges.

Eteri Tutberidze's skaters would beg to differ.

 

[Evgeniafan]

Wow I totally didn’t anticipate this outcome! Well I do think a whole lot of fans will be really thrilled with Jason going. But perhaps the other countries/competitors will be relieved that Ilia won’t be there. I personally would’ve favored Jason, Ilia and Nathan. But oh well no one is asking my opinion.

It’s also quite likely that international senior judges will hold Ilia down in GOE and PCS. Although I totally disagree with the convention, international judges are generally very stingy with new seniors. I can’t imagine they would be as generous as the US judges.

I like your opinion, its the same as mine.

 

[Dobre]

My thoughts:

Oh! I'm very happy for Jason. The selection committee had a tough decision to make, as both men really deserve to be on the team. Ilia did everything he could at Nationals to be on the team. Jason has done everything he could for the past four years. Both have had ups & downs this season. Jason has the experience. Ilia has the jumps. You have to ask which would be most likely to deliver at the Olympics, and I personally tend to lean toward the person who has been through that level of high-pressure competition many times. However, I didn't think Malinin would hold up under the pressure at Nationals, and he did. Had the Grand Prix Final and JGPF happened, we might know more. Had there been a Junior Worlds last year, we might know more. But this is all we know, and to be honest, I don't think the committee could have made a wrong choice. Both athletes are so amazing.

I haven't read this thread; but I'm sure the decision with the ladies in Boston has come up, as I was thinking about it only a few minutes before learning the result. And while I was 100% with Mirai on that decision, I was just trying to compare the logic in the two scenarios to see if I thought there would be any difference from a selection committee's point-of-view. And I think there is. The difference isn't between Polina & Malinin. They are in very comparable positions, except that now seniors need a minimum score to compete at Worlds (which Malinin doesn't yet have). But that's not something one can compare with Polina. The difference is really between Mirai & Jason's accomplishments heading into this event. He did more this season & at Worlds last year. I didn't know if that "more" would be enough, but I thought it might be. It seems it likely was.


*Though goodness knows--with the covid situation--we may well see Malinin on the team.

 

[Karen-W]

At this point, what I want to know is who the 4CCs and Worlds teams are. Frankly, they better give Ilia a Worlds spot (contingent on him earning the TES SP min he still needs). I don't care who they leave off between Brown and Zhou (both will probably go since I really expect Nathan to opt out). If they want to hold him back from 4CCs because they're worried about someone on the team testing positive (I would be given that 33 hr travel odyssey Jason & Tracy had which culminated in a 4 hr drive from Atlanta to Nashville; and given that at least 2 people in Vincent's training group at the World Arena have tested positive this week), fine - just make damn sure to send him to Challenge Cup in The Hague at the end of February.

 

[Baby Yoda On Skates]

I hope Jason buys a new shirt for his LP.

 

[feraina]

Eteri Tutberidze's skaters would beg to differ.

Correction. Eteri skaters excepted. But Eteri was smart. She petitioned the Russian fed to let Valieva skate with the seniors last year when she wasn’t age eligible. And Russian fed let the world she how she was beating all their amazing senior ladies. So she had an extra push. Malinin has had no such push and showcasing by the USFSA. The USFSA is only catching on now that broadcasting domestic events internationally for free is a great way to get free PR for their skaters. Russia has been playing the game successfully for a while. They also have their very highly visible test skates that give their top skaters high visibility all over the world from the very beginning of the season. It’s so politically smart! Imagine if USFSA had also done test skates with Ilia doing these amazing jumps at the start of the season. It might’ve been a different story today.

 

[Karen-W]

Correction. Eteri skaters excepted. But Eteri was smart. She petitioned the Russian fed to let Valieva skate with the seniors last year when she wasn’t age eligible. And Russian fed let the world she how she was beating all their amazing senior ladies. So she had an extra push. Malinin has had no such push and showcasing by the USFSA. The USFSA is only catching on now that broadcasting domestic events internationally for free is a great way to get free PR for their skaters. Russia has been playing the game successfully for a while. They also have their very highly visible test skates that give their top skaters high visibility all over the world from the very beginning of the season. It’s so politically smart! Imagine if USFSA had also done test skates with Ilia doing these amazing jumps at the start of the season. It might’ve been a different story today.

Well, we did have some of the Champs Camp videos leaked... And, let's be honest, Cranberry Cup was sort of an early season Test Skate for most of the singles skaters & pairs teams. But, I do agree with you, in principle, that the USFS needs to do a much better job of marketing and promoting our up-and-coming skaters in all disciplines.

 

[CantALoop]

Thanks for answering my question and for the clarification. Someone had posted something upthread indicating that there was an interview saying that he had country shopped and Uzbekistan had no funding.

That’s a shame, I was looking forward to Ilia defecting to UZB and showing up the USFSA in the next Olympic cycle with a five quad program with "walk like an Egyptian" arms set to Aladdin.