U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[Allskate]

There could still be consequences of that drive from Atlanta to Nashville.

Yes. I'm hoping that Jason recently was boosted, that Tracy wasn't contagious yet, and that Jason remained double masked in the car. (I noticed in the photo he posted that he was double masked on the plane, though I'm not sure Tracy was.)

Unfortunately, there are others who could end up testing positive. Not all of them were that careful and, especially given what is at stake, I was surprised by how many skaters, coaches, and family members were not engaging in the best mask practices. And there still are a lot of other possibilities.

 

[once_upon]

So I’m gonna make my Olympic predictions and then I’m gonna leave this thread for the next two months


Nathan - gold or silver

Jason top 10

Vincent below 15th


Hopefully I’m wrong about that third one but that’s just how I feel after watching today’s event

I'll make mine

Nathan - gold or silver

Jason replaced by Ilia

Vincent 12th or lower

Ilia -7th or 8th

 

[soogar]

If he goes to Russia there goes the best USFSA medal hopeful for the next quad. This is insane. Shortsightedness.

I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Someone already posted an interview that he had country shopped and Usbekistan had no funding and Russia had a lot of competition. It sucks they held him back but it seems that he receives funding and his parents are probably established coaches.

Imagine they thought of the team event because Nathan will need to rest and I’m not sure how trustworthy Vincent is.But maybe they are thinking of the audience factor and Jason will be a lot more memorable than the other two. We all saw what happened with Adam. I think Jason has a similar feel good energy.

 

[becca]

The USFS will never let him go much less to Russia of all places.

I am not sure they can stop someone who is a citizen

 

[Rukia]

But what if Team Raf has determined that they don't want Nathan in the TE at all? I wouldn't put Vincent in the SP over Jason - you know he's gonna get at least a q on the 4s just like he has all season.

I'll wear that flaming space shirt in public if Nathan isn't in the team event (barring a worse injury between now and then).

 

[carriecmu0503]

That kinda makes sense for someone like me who doesn't follow men and even more Us' men very closely. Thanks. I do feel bad for Ilia, and I don't see Brown being anywhere near a medal but if it is to assure 3 men for the future competition I can understand that. There's also the team event..

Placements at the Olympics have NOTHING whatsoever to do with slots at future events!

 

[~tapdancer~]

I'm out for now. Way too much hysteria here. Good ole FSU...

 

[tony]

But what if Team Raf has determined that they don't want Nathan in the TE at all? I wouldn't put Vincent in the SP over Jason - you know he's gonna get at least a q on the 4s just like he has all season.

So then put Malinin in the SP.

 

[Tesla]

Why does everyone keep pushing this team event nonsense like it’s 2018 again? There are FIVE skaters in the free skate, one of which is likely to be Canada. It’s not as if the US suffers a lot by having any man not Chen in there, and Rippon was 4th of 5.

Because the US has a legitimate chance at gold and Jason could place third if he does the long?

 

[tony]

Because the US has a legitimate chance at gold and Jason could place third if he does the long?

And so could any other competitor with China (or Georgia) and Canada in the final 5.

Not a compelling argument.

 

[Willin]

Honestly people treating this like a scandal and USFS is horrible and saying Ilia should go to another country and stuff are totally overreacting. I'm sure there was firey debate in that conference room. I wouldn't doubt that was part of the many delays in announcing the team.

But honestly though I 100% agree Ilia deserves it over Vincent because Vincent could very well bomb. But over Jason? Ilia has done well on the JGP, but as I said earlier he doesn't yet have the PCS or GOE to keep up in the field. Even with identical skates as they had at Nationals, an international panel may put Jason above or around the same place as Ilia due to the difference in PCS and GOE.

 

[Karen-W]

So then put Malinin in the SP.

Eh, I can see the rationale with putting Jason in the TE SP if Chen isn't going to do it.

I mean, this is the only rational reason I can see for selecting Brown instead of Malinin and it's incredibly uncharacteristic of the USFS to make the choice it made today. I'm really rather shocked by it because it's not the way they usually go with these things.

 

[aka_gerbil]

But what if Team Raf has determined that they don't want Nathan in the TE at all? I wouldn't put Vincent in the SP over Jason - you know he's gonna get at least a q on the 4s just like he has all season.

That is my suspicion—Nathan is not doing the team event at all and USFS wants a known quantity for the short with senior international championship experience. Vincent is not reliable enough and Malinin is untested at this level. If Nathan is not doing the team event, I’d put Brown up in the short and Vincent in the free.

Without Jason around, if Nathan doesn’t skate the team event, then the choice is Vincent, who didn’t make the long at worlds last year, or someone with zero senior international championship experience.

With this lineup, I’m going to be zero percent surprised if no Nathan in the team event.

 

[carriecmu0503]

Honestly people treating this like a scandal and USFS is horrible and saying Ilia should go to another country and stuff are totally overreacting. I'm sure there was firey debate in that conference room. I wouldn't doubt that was part of the many delays in announcing the team.

But honestly though I 100% agree Ilia deserves it over Vincent because Vincent could very well bomb. But over Jason? Ilia has done well on the JGP, but as I said earlier he doesn't yet have the PCS or GOE to keep up in the field. Even with identical skates as they had at Nationals, an international panel may put Jason above or around the same place as Ilia due to the difference in PCS and GOE.

There is not enough laughter for that. Ilia was TWENTY points ahead of Brown here, even with far lower PCS and GOE!

 

[Tesla]

And so could any other competitor with China (or Georgia) and Canada in the final 5.

Not a compelling argument.

There's a good chance Vincent could place last.

 

[Carolla5501]

More so anyone who was on a plane or flying home.

No, the plane is safer. they were wearing a mask on the plane

 

[VGThuy]

People are acting like Ilia is a much better skater than his record and protocols show.

That said, I get the argument about investing in the future but they did the same thing with Vincent in 2017 Worlds but at least then the USFS had an excuse of Vincent not having his minimums even though he could have competed to get them. Instead they wanted him for junior worlds, which he won and helped build his rep towards the 2018 team. Something Ilia unfortunately wasn’t able to do due to the crud.

 

[tony]

Eh, I can see the rationale with putting Jason in the TE SP if Chen isn't going to do it.

I mean, this is the only rational reason I can see for selecting Brown instead of Malinin and it's incredibly uncharacteristic of the USFS to make the choice it made today. I'm really rather shocked by it because it's not the way they usually go with these things.

But the thing is the US has a pretty solid hold on 2nd, maybe pushing for 1st if everything goes right. But you and I both know that means Nathan winning the team event SP. Jason probably wouldn’t do so.. that just moves them back into comfortable silver position.

 

[VGThuy]

There's a good chance Vincent could place last.

You do know Vincents LP averages this season are higher than Jason’s. His low end scores are comparable to Jason’s average scores.

 

[tony]

There's a good chance Vincent could place last.

Please, do the math. A 4th or a 5th place in the LP isn’t going to lose the US a medal and unless Chen was doing both programs, they very likely aren’t going to contend for gold unless Kolyada 2018 SP happens again.

Brown is not needed in the team event LP.

 

[Karen-W]

Honestly people treating this like a scandal and USFS is horrible and saying Ilia should go to another country and stuff are totally overreacting. I'm sure there was firey debate in that conference room. I wouldn't doubt that was part of the many delays in announcing the team.

But honestly though I 100% agree Ilia deserves it over Vincent because Vincent could very well bomb. But over Jason? Ilia has done well on the JGP, but as I said earlier he doesn't yet have the PCS or GOE to keep up in the field. Even with identical skates as they had at Nationals, an international panel may put Jason above or around the same place as Ilia due to the difference in PCS and GOE.

You cannot seriously be arguing, based on the scores that Vincent put out this fall, that there is a stronger argument for Ilia making the team over him because of today's results, while turning around and stating that Jason's selection over Ilia is stronger without also taking into consideration how each guy skated today. Just, no. This was never going to be about Vincent v. Ilia, it was always Jason v. Ilia, and if you're going to try and go down that path based on the skating we saw today then Ilia should have made the team, no question.

 

[ilovepaydays]

I agree with Becca for once which means Armageddon really is upon us. Skorniakov and Malinina should talk with him about sitting out and then representing Uzbekistan. This really is a scandal and I was 100% ready to say Jason deserved it if he came out on top today. Yet we saw generous call after generous call for everyone not Malinin (aside from maybe one jump for him) and then this.

But would representing Uzbekistan be a bad idea politically - and affect his scores? Just thinking of the possible downsides.

Also, does Uzbekistan allow dual citizenship?

 

[Tahuu]

I have a feeling that Vincent's bad FS has forced them to pick Jason. Jason will be a safer pick for the team FS in Beijing.

 

[On My Own]

His jumps are not better. Don’t be foolish. He tries more difficult jumps yes, but Kagiyama is capable of +5 on every single jumping element.

Malinin does have better toe jumps, at least. Maybe Kagiyama gets more GOE and the judges will give +5s to him, but he's not better to me in terms of jumps. At least not toe-pick based jumps. Kagiyama might have better edge jumps, especially the 3A and the 4S. But I'm perfectly fine with you thinking this read of their jumps is foolish

 

[Deleted member 221]

Christine Brennan was right, and the USFS should've just cancelled Nationals, or made it optional, at least for the men. It seems like nothing could've possibly changed the Olympic team, so why bother with a charade of a competition and give false hope to people?

 

[Tesla]

Please, do the math. A 4th or a 5th place in the LP isn’t going to lose the US a medal and unless Chen was doing both programs, they very likely aren’t going to contend for gold unless Kolyada 2018 SP happens again.

Brown is not needed in the team event LP.

I think the US is aiming for gold, is hoping Chen does the short, and want Jason for the stability in the long. Vincent is a known wildcard, and who knows how Ilia would be with the Olympics as his first major senior competition.

 

[gatorinfl]

S

If he goes to Russia there goes the best USFSA medal hopeful for the next quad. This is insane. Shortsightedness.

If he is a crybaby (which I don’t think he is) about not going to the Olympics after one senior competition and thinks he’ll faire better in Russia, let him go.

 

[canbelto]

I just dislike the lifetime achievement aspect of USFSA's selections. Figure skating is a sport. Ice is slippery. There are going to be heartbreaking results, but the 'body of work' loophole IMO just creates a very stagnant sport.

 

[tony]

Malinin does have better toe jumps, at least. Maybe Kagiyama gets more GOE and the judges will give +5s to him, but he's not better to me in terms of jumps. At least not toe-pick based jumps. Kagiyama might have better edge jumps, especially the 3A and the 4S. But I'm perfectly fine with you thinking this read of their jumps is foolish

Everything about every single one of Kagiyama’s jumps, toe jumps included, is better to me than Malinin’s the air position, the distance, the speed on the landing, the deep edge out, etc. but we aren’t going to agree.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I am not sure they can stop someone who is a citizen

They can. The German Fed's proposal to limit the amount of time a Fed could hold a skater, IIRC to two years, was killed through the majority vote including a big number of small federations in 2018*. Instead, we're left with typical ISU commitment anxiety:

From Rule 109: "A Skater who has competed in any ISU Championships, ISU Event and/or International Competition for any ISU Member and who intends to compete in the future for another ISU Member needs a permit from the last ISU Member he previously represented, which permit shall not unreasonably be denied.

The ISU Council is the sole arbitrator of whether holding a skater is "unreasonable." They also have to right to overrule a Fed that won't release a skater, but, there has never been a Council decision document doing this. When Massot was being held by the French Fed, the ISU Council told the German and French Feds to figure it out between themselves.

There is a rumor that being a citizen means the ISU might lean on the Fed that holds the skater, if it's a long hold, but nothing in writing. Even with enough loopholes and vague language wider than the Chunnel.

*The 2020 ISU get-together was cancelled, and I don't remember reading about any proposals to change this, but, my brain might be showing its sieve side about that.