U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[wickedwitch]

Technically Nathan is Group 1. World's scores count so his current median score is 295.13.

Group 1 requires a top 3 placement at 2022 Nationals. Nathan's done some amazing stuff, but unless he's developed the ability to time travel, too, he's not in Group 1. ETA: Yet.

 

[sheetz]

Group 1 requires a top 3 placement at 2022 Nationals. Nathan's done some amazing stuff, but unless he's developed the ability to time travel, too, he's not in Group 1.

Right, I meant as far as meeting the international score standards.

 

[Wyliefan]

You guys, USFS would send Nathan to the Olympics if he had two broken ankles. You know they would. No other U.S. man can do what he can do when he's on. And so far in his career, he's been more on than off.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

A first and a 3rd is basically a guarantee for the final. It's the same points as two silvers, but ranks ahead on the tiebreaker. So the only ways to go more points are two 1sts or a 1st and a 2nd.

I went back to 2009-10, and I couldn't find any instances of 1st/3rd not making the final (same for 2nd/2nd).

It’s mathematically impossible for a 1st and 3rd not to make the final. There are only 6 first places available. A 1st and 3rd cannot be beaten by anyone without a 1st place. Therefore a maximum of 5 skaters/teams (the 5 other first places if they were all different) could beat a 1st and a 3rd.

No need to check past results. There just is no way to be out with a 1st and 3rd.

(2nd and 2nd could be out only if all 1st places earned 2nd or 3rd in their other events or if most did and there were multiple 2nd/2nd finishers which resulted in the one with the lowest score being bumped. The probability is incredibly low but it is technically possible.)

 

[BittyBug]

Professor @Theatregirl1122 has spoken. QED.

 

[Karen-W]

It’s mathematically impossible for a 1st and 3rd not to make the final. There are only 6 first places available. A 1st and 3rd cannot be beaten by anyone without a 1st place. Therefore a maximum of 5 skaters/teams (the 5 other first places if they were all different) could beat a 1st and a 3rd.

No need to check past results. There just is no way to be out with a 1st and 3rd.

(2nd and 2nd could be out only if all 1st places earned 2nd or 3rd in their other events or if most did and there were multiple 2nd/2nd finishers which resulted in the one with the lowest score being bumped. The probability is incredibly low but it is technically possible.)

That's actually quite reassuring to know since Vincent's 2nd event is NHK with Yuzuru and Shoma. A 3rd place there for him is not out of the question if the other two skate clean.

 

[olympic]

Looking forward to SC, I think Nathan has a little less competition, Keegan will be there but RUS and JPN aren't sending their A teams. I hope he can win to put himself back on track ... At SkAm, he had to deal with world and olympic medalists.

 

[VGThuy]

I’ve been in tears for Vincent since this weekend. I know he’s far from the most naturally talented skater and even his jumps, his strength, gets scrutinized, but he’s been working and working and has been very aware of his shortcomings to work on them. After Worlds, this was exactly what he needed.

 

[sundayspirals]

Looking forward to SC, I think Nathan has a little less competition, Keegan will be there but RUS and JPN aren't sending their A teams. I hope he can win to put himself back on track ... At SkAm, he had to deal with world and olympic medalists.

Well, it's better it happened now than in December/January/February where he has to peak. Hopefully, it can take some of the pressure off him.. he looked genuinely relieved and more himself in the gala.

 

[clairecloutier]

Some interesting details about Nathan in this article:

Keeping balance: Yale’s Nathan Chen and the pursuit of Olympic gold

As he trains for the 2022 Winter Olympics, Chen ’24 talks to Yale News about his path to figure skating, the rigors of training and study, and his inspirations.

news.yale.edu

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Assuming the US Men's Olympic Team is Nathan Chen, Vincent Zhou and Jason Brown, who would you put in the team competition? You can split two disciplines and ideally for me that would be the pairs and ice dance so more people can get medals. So I'm thinking, does Nathan really need to be on the team? Why not let Vincent do both programs? And if they want to split the SP/LP between the men, I'd rather see Jason Brown do the SP than Nathan too. I know that leaves Nathan off the TeamEvent, but does he really need another team medal? Vincent and Jason don't have one. Spread the love and the medals to as many skaters as possible, is my feeling.

 

[sheetz]

Assuming the US Men's Olympic Team is Nathan Chen, Vincent Zhou and Jason Brown, who would you put in the team competition? You can split two disciplines and ideally for me that would be the pairs and ice dance so more people can get medals. So I'm thinking, does Nathan really need to be on the team? Why not let Vincent do both programs? And if they want to split the SP/LP between the men, I'd rather see Jason Brown do the SP than Nathan too. I know that leaves Nathan off the TeamEvent, but does he really need another team medal? Vincent and Jason don't have one. Spread the love and the medals to as many skaters as possible, is my feeling.

Jason has a team medal from 2014.

Nathan has already stated in an interview that he wants definitely wants to do the Team Event. Besides, there's no guarantee that he will medal in the individual event.

 

[Karen-W]

Nathan in the SP and Vincent in the FS is what I would do, especially if Nathan already has stated he wants to do the Team Event again. The US has a good chance at the gold and we need Nathan and Vincent for that.

 

[missing]

Philip Hersh worries about the same things I worry about:

Philip Hersh


1 / Did some checking and learned in the past 7 Grand Prix skating seasons, 24 points was good enough to make men’s final in all but one case**. Nathan Chen got 11 from 3rd at #SkateAmerica He would get 15 by winning #SkateCanada this week. That’s 26. Second would give hm 24

2 / The double asterisk ** refers to 2013, when three men tied with 24 and a tie-breaker was needed to determine who got the final two spots

3 / went back to 2008 and found 2 other cases where tie breakers needed to determine final place(s) among skaters with 24. So Chen might be on the bubble if he does not win #SkateCanada (anyone who wants to go back further, have at it.)

 

[livetoskate]

What's going on with Andrew Torgashev? Is he still competing? I always liked his skating, & as far as I recall, he had a quad toe.

 

[Ka3sha]

Out of nowhere quotes from the Russian Ice Age show interview - Evgenia Medvedeva commentated Senior Men's event for Russia's channel 1 last weekend and was later asked who impressed her the most:

I always support Nathan Chen. I don't understand people who write Nathan off. I believe that these people change their shoes in the air, this is not right, not correct. Chen is a three-time World Champion. He is a human, and as humans we all make mistakes. Remember my short program at Skate Canada - 2019. I am also a human being, I understand what he feels.
But at the same time I'm extremely happy for Vincent Zhou. He was finally able to show such perfect skates. He deserves to skate like this and be on the podium.

 

[Stephanie]

What's going on with Andrew Torgashev? Is he still competing? I always liked his skating, & as far as I recall, he had a quad toe.

He's scheduled to compete in the US Championship Series event in Alpharetta, GA November 17th-20th in order to qualify to nationals. He was also signed up for the Las Vegas event also but withdrew. IIRC he has competed in 1 or 2 club competitions earlier this season, although not with his full content from the 2019/20 season.

 

[livetoskate]

He's scheduled to compete in the US Championship Series event in Alpharetta, GA November 17th-20th in order to qualify to nationals. He was also signed up for the Las Vegas event also but withdrew. IIRC he has competed in 1 or 2 club competitions earlier this season, although not with his full content from the 2019/20 season.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

You guys, USFS would send Nathan to the Olympics if he had two broken ankles. You know they would. No other U.S. man can do what he can do when he's on. And so far in his career, he's been more on than off.

Thank you! I was shaking my head at some of the doubting Thomas's here, as I read on, seemingly suggesting that there's a remote possibility that Nathan might not make the Olympic team unless he makes this or that score, or whatever. USFS would be INSANE to leave Nathan Chen home for anyone else! That is all.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Assuming the US Men's Olympic Team is Nathan Chen, Vincent Zhou and Jason Brown, who would you put in the team competition? You can split two disciplines and ideally for me that would be the pairs and ice dance so more people can get medals. So I'm thinking, does Nathan really need to be on the team? Why not let Vincent do both programs? And if they want to split the SP/LP between the men, I'd rather see Jason Brown do the SP than Nathan too. I know that leaves Nathan off the TeamEvent, but does he really need another team medal? Vincent and Jason don't have one. Spread the love and the medals to as many skaters as possible, is my feeling.

Nathan has said he wants to be in the team event. Why would ANY skater forgo two chances at an Olympic medal? Without the team bronze in 2018, Nathan would have gone home with zip.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Nathan has said he wants to be in the team event. Why would ANY skater forgo two chances at an Olympic medal? Without the team bronze in 2018, Nathan would have gone home with zip.

Let's hope Nathan gets to do what he wants. He partly attributed his poor performance in the singles event to his poor team performance, so I didn't know if he wanted to do something different this time. (The definition of insanity to some is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result, so whatever). I figured of all skaters why Nathan would forgo two chances at an Olympic medal is because he already has a team medal and the individual one is most important to him? And that possibly he doesn't want to mess up his chances for Singles success by messing up his mojo in the TeamEvent again? Maybe? It helps that Jason already has an Olympic team medal, so that's fine. I guess it's the Pairs that will only be Knierim/Frazier, and therefore only Alysa for the Ladies Team competition then? If I were Nathan, I'd consider skipping the team event, though he'd obviously be valuable to the team. Maybe the chance at another team medal is that enticing to him that he'd let it get in the way with his Singles preparation? You could be right, SashaSpins.

 

[olympic]

U.S. Men are strong enough thus far where Nathan could skip the team event. Vincent and Jason could skate the team event. Jason could do the short and score mid-90s, and Vincent is close to 200 in the LP. But, the key is staying ahead of JPN in the team event, too. So IDK

 

[Spun Silver]

I would bet my blood on Nathan doing at least part of the Team event. I just can't imagine him saying no to USFS, or even wanting to say a complete no to the Team event. Besides that, he is a great champion. He doesn't need to treat himself like a tissue-thin butterfly. He can do it all and conquer. It's the Olympics!

 

[livetoskate]

I don't think Jason is a shoo-in for the Olympics. Maxim Naumov looks like another top contender. Although he had 2 falls here, his jumps get great height, he can land a quad sal, and everything else looks pretty impressive!

Maxim NAUMOV USA Free Skate 2021 Cranberry Cup International

Maxim NAUMOV USA Free Skate 2021 Cranberry Cup International

youtu.be

 

[Jonas]

While my money is on Jason Brown being selected to the US Olympic Team, I don't think it's necessarily a done deal neither --nor should it be. Looking back at the '18 US Nationals, I think that the judges wanted to will the results to put him on the team then, but he tanked.

I would throw Ilia Malinin into the conversation as well. He's armed with quads and is headed to the Jr. Grand Prix Final. I'm also excited to see how he fares in his senior international debut later. I don't think Malinin can outskate Brown at this point, but he can certainly outjump him -- which is similar to what Vincent Zhou did four years ago in San Jose.

Your thoughts...

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

I don't think Jason is a shoo-in for the Olympics. Maxim Naumov looks like another top contender. Although he had 2 falls here, his jumps get great height, he can land a quad sal, and everything else looks pretty impressive!

Maxim NAUMOV USA Free Skate 2021 Cranberry Cup International

Maxim NAUMOV USA Free Skate 2021 Cranberry Cup International

youtu.be

I am so worried that Jason Brown will have another 2018 USN. But the USFS requirements look to benefit Jason the most. Plus he did WIN his B international already this season over Kolyada.... I hope it's not a nailbiter this time.

 

[RoseRed]

I don't think Jason is a shoo-in for the Olympics. Maxim Naumov looks like another top contender. Although he had 2 falls here, his jumps get great height, he can land a quad sal, and everything else looks pretty impressive!

Maxim NAUMOV USA Free Skate 2021 Cranberry Cup International

Maxim NAUMOV USA Free Skate 2021 Cranberry Cup International

youtu.be

Maxim has a shot, but I wouldn't call him a top contender yet. He'll need to do better than he has in the past to be able to make the team.

He scored 223 at Cranberry and 207 at US Classic. His best ever ISU score is 225.

Jason got 262 at Finlandia, and has an ISU PB of nearly 275.

 

[Karen-W]

Maxim has a shot, but I wouldn't call him a top contender yet. He'll need to do better than he has in the past to be able to make the team.

He scored 223 at Cranberry and 207 at US Classic. His best ever ISU score is 225.

Jason got 262 at Finlandia, and has an ISU PB of nearly 275.

Agreed. I think Ilia Malinin is a more likely contender to make the Olympic team if someone other than Jason takes the 3rd spot.

 

[skateboy]

He doesn't need to treat himself like a tissue-thin butterfly.

Just wanted to say that I LOVE this comment!

 

[skateboy]

I don't think Jason is a shoo-in for the Olympics. Maxim Naumov looks like another top contender. Although he had 2 falls here, his jumps get great height, he can land a quad sal, and everything else looks pretty impressive!

Maxim NAUMOV USA Free Skate 2021 Cranberry Cup International

Maxim NAUMOV USA Free Skate 2021 Cranberry Cup International

youtu.be

I think it will depend on how Jason does for the season leading up to Nationals (and, of course, how he skates and places at Nationals). Doubtful that the USFS would easily discard Jason unless he has a particularly sucky season, while others are on an upward slope.