U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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Here's a new story about Jimmy Ma by @Jayar:


Ma reveals that he's working on a quad flip and may include it in his FS later in the season.
Jimmy's quote from the mixed zone after his SP: https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1451746149375913991
“Those are the kind of programs I’d like to start consistently putting out. It’s what i've been doing in practice and I’m finally glad that with this team behind me I can show people, I’m not just saying it but this is what I can do in practice.”
He added that his goal is to make it to a championship event this season, but it doesn’t matter which one.
 

SDoesNotKnow

Active Member
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70
I prefer Jimmy Ma's skating over Nathan and Vincent....
I don’t after watching them live. I do think Nathan Chen needs to rethink that short program and he doesn’t really have the command over the ice I’d expect for a multi-time world champion. His skating has a very rushed quality like he’s chasing something all of the time and he does the same “hip hop” moves in all of his programs.
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
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3,004
I don’t after watching them live. I do think Nathan Chen needs to rethink that short program and he doesn’t really have the command over the ice I’d expect for a multi-time world champion. His skating has a very rushed quality like he’s chasing something all of the time and he does the same “hip hop” moves in all of his programs.
Nathan was definitely off from the beginning. He even looked lost finding he starting position or searching the ice for foreign objects. I couldn't tell exactly what he was doing before he started. I think the original program in 2018 was much better, this one just feels wrong because the singing in the first piece just sounds like wailing. It is a very interesting choice to use part of the same music that you had several mistakes in the biggest event of your life. I'm very interested to see the long. As far as "hip hop" moves in all of his programs that just blanket inaccurate statement.

There was too many swan lakes so Jimmy Ma is already as a disadvantage in my own head. The nodding at the judges (or whoever it was directed to on the side) was very distracting but he is really getting those jumps down. He can definitely challenge for a spot on the Olympic team if he keeps it up because the other skaters are not very consistent.

Vincent always has excited me even when he is a little sloppy and nothing has changed. Hope he cab rotate jumps in the long program.
 

Spun Silver

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11,867
I prefer Jimmy Ma's skating over Nathan and Vincent....
His charisma is amazing, and it was fantastic to see that together with the technical side coming together. It was a wonderful skate.

As for Vincent, well done on winning the short. He's a whiz technically, but lacking in interpretation IMO. He bugs me from the waist up - he never seems to know what to do with his arms. Surely that is a soluble problem! And he often seems to be overdoing the emotion, looking like he's about to cry. Most of the interpretation should be done by the body!

Nathan... aargh. Hope it was just a blip.
 

wickedwitch

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15,354
Nathan was definitely off from the beginning. He even looked lost finding he starting position or searching the ice for foreign objects. I couldn't tell exactly what he was doing before he started. I think the original program in 2018 was much better, this one just feels wrong because the singing in the first piece just sounds like wailing.
He's not the first person to do this, but skaters will try to capitalize on a previously praised program by doing an inferior version of it. It frustrates me. He's capable of far more in the SP. (As evidenced by the original Nemesis program.)
 

SkateFanBerlin

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955
Amazed at Vincent. There's a toughness in him. So often judged 2nd tier. He just keeps moving forward, knocking off one issue after the next. This year so consistent. Who knows what shape the others will be in by Olys. Continuing to progresss and remaining jury free Vincent could a podium favorite.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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Vincent has a world medal. He's always been a contender. The problem is he's never a sure thing. So far he's been consistent this season. Will that last? Idk. Maybe. Maybe not. But his potential has always been there.
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
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3,004
He's not the first person to do this, but skaters will try to capitalize on a previously praised program by doing an inferior version of it. It frustrates me. He's capable of far more in the SP. (As evidenced by the original Nemesis program.)
Yes I thought maybe they thought to change the beginning with the jumping passes because that is where the problems were at the Olympics but it doesn't flow for me now. I hope it reworked or dropped.
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
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Nathan looked distracted by the ice again. That choregraphic sequence in his long is completely unnecessary. The modern interlude is not good and does not feel genuine. I guess the other poster was right about the same type of dance moves in the programs if they knew this was coming in the long.
 

Spun Silver

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I know Vincent has been building toward this for years, but this was a real Star is Born moment. It's amazing to see on an iPad, can't imagine what it was like in the arena. He was so strong and confident on every level tonight.

I don't think I like Nathan's free program, especially for this season. Hopefully he'll pull himself out of this funk and maybe even go back to Rite of Spring!

Whew, men's skating is a gladiator contest sometimes!
 

livetoskate

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1,323
What an amazing men's event at Skate America! A huge standing ovation to Vincent on finally winning over Nathan. Although didn't he win at nationals over him many years ago-- novice maybe? It's funny that Jimmy Ma used to tower over them when they were kids. This is going to be an exciting road to the Olympics!
 

Spun Silver

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11,867
What an amazing men's event at Skate America! A huge standing ovation to Vincent on finally winning over Nathan. Although didn't he win at nationals over him many years ago-- novice maybe? It's funny that Jimmy Ma used to tower over them when they were kids. This is going to be an exciting road to the Olympics!
Yes, in 2013 Vincent won the Jr title while Nathan took bronze. That was the first time I saw Vincent.
 

olympic

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10,207
A quote popped into my head - The King is dead. Long live the King.

No. Seriously. Earlier posts mentions that Nathan had issues w/ the ice. Is there anything definitive about his problems this weekend?

Anyway, happy for Vincent and Nathan still placed 2nd in the LP. Too bad Nathan didn't triple the Lutz and the Sal. He would have grabbed the silver, and I like the music ... Skating on fire, it will work
 

ЭPiKUilyam

Banned Member
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1,333
As for Vincent, well done on winning the short. He's a whiz technically, but lacking in interpretation IMO. He bugs me from the waist up - he never seems to know what to do with his arms. Surely that is a soluble problem! And he often seems to be overdoing the emotion, looking like he's about to cry. Most of the interpretation should be done by the body!
Vincent is not my ideal skater, but if he lands that many quads then I'll overlook it. He just seems to me in his performance ability that he skates like he would be really promising if this was his first year out of Juniors. He's working on his spins, extensions to a fully "Senior" level. But senior for four years? I expect more, honestly. As for his SP, I don't know whether to think that his skating to "Vincent" is sweet/quaint or tacky/cheesy. I personally couldn't imagine skating to a song with my name without wanting to stick my finger down my throat.. lol. Is anyone else conflicted by his choice of music? (This is not a bash on him. I think he just signed his ticket to Beijing, deservedly, and I'm happy for him. I see no other possible Oly team than Nathan, Vincent, and Jason. And I like it that way.)
 
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orbitz

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10,380
Congrats to Vincent. He's definitely on a mission this year and has the determination, talent and ability to pull it off. He won't pull off wins at every competition, but what he has done this year with his skating is very admirable.

Does the result of the men at SA reminds anyone a little bit of Sarah Hughes winning SC over MK and Irina in 2001 ? Hmm.... Well, at least we know Nathan won't be going coach-less for Beijing, LOL. I'm sure he'll rebound, but the question will be what type of changes he and his team need to make to their strategy between now and the Games. Nathan won't be able to change much for SC next week.

( I didn't miss Tara's commentary at all. Weir was good with just Gannon.)
 

jenny12

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7,445
Congratulations to Vincent. I am glad to see him pull it together after the problems at last years world.

I don’t like Nathan’s program or general style at all but I have no doubt it my mind that everything will be fine with him. He still landed a tremendous amount of quads and I’m sure he’ll be on at the right time.

And yeah, Tara can continue to stay home.
 

Jammers

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6,982
Being a Olympic year Nathan should have had more competitions under his belt then in a normal year. He's taking time off of school so that's not a reason to barely compete. Yes it's worked in the past but he was hella rusty out there. Maybe being in school helped him not focus on the pressure and now he has all this free time to think of nothing else. Why fix it if it's not broken.
 

mtnskater

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Thinking about Nathan, I am a little bit worried. He has seemed invincible for nearly four years which I know few,if any, others have ever achieved in the sport of figure skating. But he was rattled by the Olympics last time around. I hope all the pressure is not causing him to have a case of the twisties 🙏. I had expected him to have his programs completely worked out by now and to be his best programs ever. I do see many similar moves from previous programs. And I agree with others about the vocal music part of his short program. As to the free, he said in an interview they are still deciding on how much of the hip hop music portion to balance with the rest. And he seemed kind of unsure of his starting position on the ice in both programs I believe. Just surprising to not be farther along.

He has always been such a humble self-effacing guy. Sometimes I’d like him to have a bit of swagger….just a little. Look up more instead of down at the ice so much. Pay more attention to posture again. That said, I think I will like his free when he performs it full out. Love Mozart! And That hip hop step/choreographic sequence is epic. Not any of the ice dancers are doing hip hop style in the rhythm dance as well as Nathan!
 

Lacey

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Thinking about Nathan, I am a little bit worried. He has seemed invincible for nearly four years which I know few,if any, others have ever achieved in the sport of figure skating. But he was rattled by the Olympics last time around. I hope all the pressure is not causing him to have a case of the twisties 🙏. I had expected him to have his programs completely worked out by now and to be his best programs ever. I do see many similar moves from previous programs. And I agree with others about the vocal music part of his short program. As to the free, he said in an interview they are still deciding on how much of the hip hop music portion to balance with the rest. And he seemed kind of unsure of his starting position on the ice in both programs I believe. Just surprising to not be farther along.

He has always been such a humble self-effacing guy. Sometimes I’d like him to have a bit of swagger….just a little. Look up more instead of down at the ice so much. Pay more attention to posture again. That said, I think I will like his free when he performs it full out. Love Mozart! And That hip hop step/choreographic sequence is epic. Not any of the ice dancers are doing hip hop style in the rhythm dance as well as Nathan!
Part of me is glad that Nathan now knows he is not invincible because he has a few weeks and months to correct things that popped out.

I don't think he was having a case of the Twisties like Simone Biles in gymnastics. He had an off night, perfectly excusable.

Nathan certainly should have a Plan B in place for if things go wrong in the beginning of a program to refocus and get back on track without distraction. He can't recede into himself to hope to just get through, he needs to do the remainder with style.

Speaking of style, perhaps Nathan needs some arm-ography or choreography to keep up with those who have added it because they never have jumps anyway. One has to have it all, jumps & style.

I think the suggestion above to look up is good, look at the crowd.

I think I read he might have been having soft or hard ice issues. If this is so, then he should have boots & blades for every type of ice.

I think Nathan is going to be fine. I am worried if his next event is SC, but he will do his best to hopefully make it to GPF.
 
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ЭPiKUilyam

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Part of me is glad that Nathan now knows he is not invincible because now he has a few weeks and months to correct things that popped out.
Me too. But I think the best thing from this result at SkAm is that he will probably now go "ALL NATHAN" in his training and performances and be virtually impossible to beat. He has a champion mindset. I'm not worried.
 

Allskate

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11,043
Thinking about Nathan, I am a little bit worried. He has seemed invincible for nearly four years which I know few,if any, others have ever achieved in the sport of figure skating. But he was rattled by the Olympics last time around. I hope all the pressure is not causing him to have a case of the twisties 🙏.

I don't think he was having the twisties. He wouldn't have been able to land any of the jumps if he did. But, I wouldn't be surprised if he was feeling the pressure. The article the other day where he discussed Simone Biles did make me wonder about his current psychological state. He has enormous pressure on him. On the one hand, he has the last Olympics hanging over him. On the other, he hadn't lost a competition since then, so the expectations are high. It all adds a ton of pressure. Plus, he seems to demand a lot from himself. And the hype and scrutiny is already very high. I don't think he needed a wake-up call as some people seem to think. Others may think of him as invincible, but I don't get the sense that he ever has.

Vincent is in a very different situation. He said that he was skating like he had nothing to lose. I'm sure he puts pressure on himself, but the expectations for him weren't particularly high coming into Skate America given his inconsistency and how he did at Worlds last season.

Ultimately, only Nathan and his team know what the issue is, so only they know what can be done to address it at this point. Unfortunately, they have almost no time before Skate Canada.
 

olympic

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10,207
Congrats to Vincent. He's definitely on a mission this year and has the determination, talent and ability to pull it off. He won't pull off wins at every competition, but what he has done this year with his skating is very admirable.

Does the result of the men at SA reminds anyone a little bit of Sarah Hughes winning SC over MK and Irina in 2001 ? Hmm.... Well, at least we know Nathan won't be going coach-less for Beijing, LOL. I'm sure he'll rebound, but the question will be what type of changes he and his team need to make to their strategy between now and the Games. Nathan won't be able to change much for SC next week.

( I didn't miss Tara's commentary at all. Weir was good with just Gannon.)
LOL. I thought the same thing re the comment about Kwan in 2001. Nathan reminds me of the Kween: Generally unflappable, except with anything re the Olympics (hopefully that proves to be false). I do think a big difference is like you said, he's not going to do anything crazy like leave Rafael. I honestly think MK would've won in 2002 if she just followed FC's advice and kept the programs simple and clean. In the end, her 2002 Nationals performance would've won OGM in SLC. Enough about the Kween.

------

I also agree w/ the comments above re the twisties: That is also not the problem. The most concerning issue might be pressure. He doesn't advertise his feelings or emotions, so fans aren't really going to know too much about what is going on inside of him. I generally think Nathan is competitive and his head is in the right place, so I bet that he will do what he needs to do to rectify the situation.

One explanation for Nathan may be that in a normal year, he debuts at the JO in early October. and I've never seen him nail it at JO in the past. His debut was at a GP event this year. Maybe what we were seeing was the JO performance he would've given in early October (?)

So, does Nathan follow Katarina Witt's strategy and watch the competition closely and do what he needs to do to win, or follow the MK strategy and block out everything and do what his body tells him to do. LOL
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
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4,588
Congrats to Vincent. He's definitely on a mission this year and has the determination, talent and ability to pull it off. He won't pull off wins at every competition, but what he has done this year with his skating is very admirable.

Does the result of the men at SA reminds anyone a little bit of Sarah Hughes winning SC over MK and Irina in 2001 ? Hmm.... Well, at least we know Nathan won't be going coach-less for Beijing, LOL. I'm sure he'll rebound, but the question will be what type of changes he and his team need to make to their strategy between now and the Games. Nathan won't be able to change much for SC next week.

( I didn't miss Tara's commentary at all. Weir was good with just Gannon.)
I thought of the Sarah victory over Michelle and Irina also. Sarah had the advantage of beating both of them at the same competition, which can only happen for Vincent if he, Nathan and Hanyu all skate at the GPF.

I don't know any of these people, so everything I write is speculative. But first of all, it wouldn't surprise me if Nathan has some kind of muscle strain issue. I'm not used to seeing him touch his chest and he did it at practices and before last night's warmup. Maybe it's a habit of his I've just never paid attention to, but it was noticeable and commented on by others.

I also didn't get the feeling Nathan felt any commitment to anything except attempting 6 quads. The smart thing to do (what I've taken to thinking of as the Jeffrey Buttle thing to do) would have been to plan for 4 quads and 2 triples. If he'd landed that, rather than having 2 pops, his score would have been sufficiently high that he could have won silver and perhaps unnerved Vincent into making some mistakes.

Again, since I don't know these people, I'm going with what I feel, but what I feel is Vincent really cares about his music, his programs. Jason really cares about his music, his programs (Schindler in particular). I just don't feel like Nathan cares. Maybe he's had some input into the music, but I don't sense any passion. In fact, the most passion I've felt from him on that subject was when he complained (was it last year, early this year?) about skating music not speaking to his generation.

As Jason fans know only too well, a skater can care deeply about his programs and still not be able to land a quad. But I think that level of caring offers an intangible to fans and perhaps to judges as well. Maybe it just makes for more intense rehearsal/workouts on the part of the skaters. Maybe they're more willing to use their arms, their hands, as well as their leg muscles.

Nathan, to me, seemed like someone who would rather be somewhere else than at SA. I'm not going to be totally shocked if he pulls out of SC. I hope he changes his programs to music he truly connects with. I want him to the win the Olympics, and I think he will. But Vincent's victory now makes it plausible that he might, and I have a feeling that is what he is now striving for, a victory, not just a medal.
 

SDoesNotKnow

Active Member
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70
That’s the sense I got too. Vincent may be considered a “low quality” skater to many and I know he’s not a natural performer, an innate artist, or has the body movements to be considered a dancer but you don’t have any doubt he deeply cares about his programs and music. He’s completely committed to his programs.

Jason is the musical dancer of mens skating. There is never any doubt he’s committed to his programs, even the “Old Friends” one.

Nathan skates like he couldn’t be bothered until his tired 30 second “hip hop” section. He can still keep Mozart but the techno beat section needs to start at least a minute and 15 seconds earlier.
 

baramin

Active Member
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44
I also thought of Hughes in 2001, and part of me is nervous for Chen given how he responded to Olympic pressure last time, but I think that his unbeaten record disguises the fact that he's not always his best during the GP. This was his worst competition in a long time, but wasn't there another SkAm where he had a few pops, as well as another GP event where he placed behind Jason in the short? He still got off 4 quads and 3 triples in his free here, including hitting the 3a in both programs & getting the 4loop in his free, which means his mental game, training & technique haven't deserted him. There's every chance this was just a working out the off season cobwebs situation with a bit of Oly season jitters mixed in.
 

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