U.S. Men 2020-21 season news & updates

[RoseRed]

Has Zhou said he’s planning to retire after this year? He’s only 20. That’s quite young for retirement for a man.

He's given a number of comments that imply he will.

From an interview in January:

The 2022 Olympics, this is the end game for me, so I'm really, really working towards making sure everything comes together for that.

From March 2020:

As long as everything goes well, I plan to just stay here [Toronto] until after the 2022 Olympics, after which I will go back to school.

From October 2020:

Now, Zhou is 16 months from the Beijing Winter Games. His parents lived in the Chinese capital before moving to the U.S. He speaks fluent Mandarin and has a large fan base in the world’s most populous nation.

“I don’t think there’s another place I’d rather have my second and final Olympics,” besides the U.S., Zhou said.

 

[Sylvia]

Viktor Pfeifer, who coached Joseph Kang and Peter Liu in Senior and Nick Hsieh in Junior at 2021 U.S. Nationals, plus David Shapiro (10th in Junior at 2020 Nationals) and Tony Lu (2019 Senior National competitor), will be moving next month from Wilmington, Delaware to coach at the World Arena Ice Hall in Colorado Springs.

Today he shared a montage of clips of his students over the years, starting with his own trademark 'Tano Lutz (eta correct link!): https://www.instagram.com/p/CPi9o6NpvjF/
His club (SC of Wilmington) surprised him with a farewell party last week: https://www.instagram.com/p/CPV0od0Jzzk/

 

[Willin]

I am intrigued by the mention upthread of Malinin as a choice for the 2022 team. It might be a smart strategy but obviously he would have to prove himself internationally from here on out.

I assume Chen, Zhou and Brown will retire after 2022, and US men will desperately need a new leader. Malinin is the youngster with tons of potential. An Olympic experience might prime him for 2026 in the ISU's eyes.

If Malinin skates well at Nationals, I could see him on the team. When there's three spots, USFS has a tendency to give at least one to a skater that a) did well at Nationals and b) is seen as a future star. See: Polina Edmunds, Karen Chen, Jason Brown in 2014, Mirai and Rachel in 2010, etc.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

He's given a number of comments that imply he will.

From an interview in January:


From March 2020:


From October 2020:

Thanks for the thorough answer. Seems like he has other things he wants to do, but, from a purely skating standpoint, I don’t really think his career has peaked and he’s also skated his whole senior career in Nathan’s shadow, so it’s a bit of a surprising move. Again, from a skating standpoint only.

 

[Vagabond]

Thanks for the thorough answer. Seems like he has other things he wants to do, but, from a purely skating standpoint, I don’t really think his career has peaked and he’s also skated his whole senior career in Nathan’s shadow, so it’s a bit of a surprising move. Again, from a skating standpoint only.

I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled a Paul Wylie, dedicated himself to his studies, and returned to skating after earning his Bachelor's degree.

 

[olympic]

If Malinin skates well at Nationals, I could see him on the team. When there's three spots, USFS has a tendency to give at least one to a skater that a) did well at Nationals and b) is seen as a future star. See: Polina Edmunds, Karen Chen, Jason Brown in 2014, Mirai and Rachel in 2010, etc.

At the same time, it is a tough choice because Jason and Vincent (when skating well) have noticeably improved on their respective weaknesses and it would take a lot to justify putting someone ahead of either of them on the team (provided they skate well in the Fall / at Nationals). Even if the candidate is a wunderkind

 

[BittyBug]

If history is any predictor, Olympic years usually surprise.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

It'll be interesting to see how Vincent's world's snafu is rated against other factors and his general results over the years. I think the top 3 US men have been mostly pretty clear over the last 4 years, but how much does failing to make the LP at Worlds affect his standing in that top 3 in the eyes of USFSA? How much does it affect him? Nebelhorn selection may provide some clue to how USFSA is feeling.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I think it depends on how much they feel like taking weird training interruptions and the lack of a competitive season into account. Vincent always seems to need a few competitions to get settled. It wasn't a normal year so that could help him. If you are going to miss the free skate at worlds it might as well be in a year that had a lot of unusual issues built into it.

 

[jlai]

Yeah but that is the preOlympic worlds. So that hurts enough that Zhou is now no 3 for sure

 

[Alexa]

Skate Canada was canceled after SA assignments were made. At that point, Jason couldn't have gone to SA unless someone was uninvited, which for obvious reasons wasn't happening. I assume he/USFS initially preferred SC b/c of logistics - he wouldn't have to quarantine upon return and lose 2 weeks of training time.

This is partly true. I remembered reading an article about Jason about SkAm. USFS did offer to help him with lobbing ISU for him to go to SkAm after SC cancellation, but he had only 2 hours to consider the offer, he said he needed Brian and Tracy’s opinions on that, which was why the opportunity got passed.

 

[Sylvia]

Camden Pulkinen tweeted this news today: https://twitter.com/CamdenPulk/status/1399838091368599554

I am ecstatic to announce that I will be attending Columbia University starting in the Fall 2022 semester to complete my ugrad degree. While difficult, I plan to maintain my role within Team USA while pursuing academic excellence! Thank you all for the support ... #RoarLions

 

[misskarne]

If you are going to miss the free skate at worlds it might as well be in a year that had a lot of unusual issues built into it.

Except for, you know, the tiny little detail that it actually put the US men's third spot for the Olympics at risk. So it didn't just affect him, or wasn't just a minor consequence for him. It had an effect on the whole team and could have consequences for other skaters.

This is partly true. I remembered reading an article about Jason about SkAm. USFS did offer to help him with lobbing ISU for him to go to SkAm after SC cancellation, but he had only 2 hours to consider the offer, he said he needed Brian and Tracy’s opinions on that, which was why the opportunity got passed.

I believe the other issue was that Jason was concerned about getting back into Canada. Given the difficulties he had getting into Canada in June - he was only allowed to cross in the end because he could drive directly from his parents' house to his billet family's house without stops - this is a fair concern.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Except for, you know, the tiny little detail that it actually put the US men's third spot for the Olympics at risk. So it didn't just affect him, or wasn't just a minor consequence for him. It had an effect on the whole team and could have consequences for other skaters.

Think of how great that will be for you for eternity too. You can shit all over him forever.

 

[jlai]

I think Zhou did hurt his case with USFS, no ifs and butts about it. That said he does have enough medals in his record to be above anyone who isn’t Jason or Nathan. Much will depend on summer and fall

 

[Stephanie]

Maxim Naumov landed a 4s in his Colonial Open SP today (his first ever quad in competition afaik) https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2021/29881/CAT026SEG023.html

 

[Sylvia]

Maxim Naumov landed a 4s in his Colonial Open SP today (his first ever quad in competition afaik)

Yes, I believe it was his first attempt in any(?) competition (he has been landing quad Salchow and, more recently, the toe loop in practices). If anyone wants to watch Naumov's skate his SP in silence (the Facebook livestream has no audio due to music copyright issues), check out the U.S. Club Competitions thread in Kiss & Cry that's open to all right now: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-qualifying-competitions.108356/#post-6008020

 

[Carolla5501]

Zhou cheer leaders seem to be burying their head in the sand on the biggest problem with his body of work. He didn’t make the cut at worlds this year.

I’m not sure how the skate America skate is going to overcome that huge problem. I realize that Jason doesn’t have a Grand Prix last season, but it’s the one event both young men were at one of them delivered and one of failed miserably

Unfortunately some of you don’t want to look at that LOL

I think if Vincent wants to go to the Olympics he better show up at every event this year and skate great. he cannot afford another implosion. And imho the absolute worst possible scenario for him, is he goes to Neblehorn and does not deliver the 3rd spot. Then it’s all over he won’t be going to the Olympics. It would almost be better not to go

 

[VGThuy]

Nice to see you LOL at Vincent’s failures. Nobody is saying he can just show up at Nationals after a bad season and make the team if he fails to place in the top two or three. And of course if he fails to gain the spot at Nebelhorn, it’ll most likely be over for him.

However, you all act like Vincent has no chance or that he’s 1/4 the skater he is. Missing the LP was the biggest error an American man made at Worlds in forever, but those who think that represents everything Zhou has to offer are equally burying their heads in the sand because they stan other skaters and want them on the team over him and always disliked him for being in their faves’ way ever since 2017 nationals or at least the 2017-2018 season. BOW may not take 2019 Worlds into consideration, but the selection committee aren’t going to ignore it no matter what the rules say nor will they ignore every contender’s potential score and what their base values are and where each skater can place at best. Of course, Vincent should bring it and at least make the GPF. Of course, some of his antis (say cheerleader and I can say anti) won’t think that’s good enough anyway even with a top three placement at nationals because no matter what he does, he’s not good enough.

 

[haribobo]

Summer 2021 US MEN Scores

SENIOR MEN SP (over 60)
Maxim Naumov 86
Ryan Dunk 70

SENIOR MEN FS (over 100)
Maxim Naumov 116
Ryan Dunk 112

JUNIOR MEN SP (over 50)
Matthew Nielsen 61
Philip Baker 57
Jacob Sanchez 56
Goku Endo 55
Michael Xie 55
Lucas Broussard 51

JUNIOR MEN FS (over 80)
Lucas Broussard 122
Jacob Sanchez 114
Philip Baker 98

Feel free to update me if I have missed any scores so far this season, I only just started looking around today...

 

[Dobre]

Yeah but that is the preOlympic worlds. So that hurts enough that Zhou is now no 3 for sure

Nor is there any fourth guy with a more consistent pre-Olympic season than Vincent. I think he's pretty much in control of his own destiny. It's a lot to ask someone to be ready to earn a berth to compete at Nebelhorn, earn a berth for the team at Nebelhorn, and medal at Nationals. That's a long journey, one step at a time. There are guys that can get it done. But it means being ready early & being ready late, which is a tougher route than just aiming to be ready at the end of the season. I would want to be ready. #4 last year was Paniot & he definitely doesn't have a track record for consistency. As an athlete, I wouldn't want to have to count on him or anyone else to earn my berth at the Olympics. Be ready. Do your best. If whoever goes to Nebelhorn can't earn the berth, this becomes a much tougher fight for Vincent & Jason, not to mention all the other guys hoping for a spot, so we just wait & see how ready everyone is & ultimately how the chips fall in the actual qualifying ccompetition.

 

[Sylvia]

Feel free to update me if I have missed any scores so far this season, I only just started looking around today...

I'm working on my own Scoretracker for the U.S. club comps going back to March and plan to compile/share here on FSU (and maybe in my blog).

 

[jlai]

I think US #4 is still Tomoki, so I'm sure any head to head between Vincent v Tomoki will matter. In addition, it is possible USFS wants to give a chance to the 'future' if someone shows up in Fall with guns blazing. But right now, we don't know who that is, or if there is going to be that person

 

[kwanfan1818]

Zhou underperformed in his three most pressure-filled events: his first Worlds, where he finished 19th in the FS and dropped from 3rd to 14th, 2018 qualifying Nationals, where he needed a BOW argument to make the Olympic team, and 2021 Worlds, with an Olympic spot on the line, forcing the US to qualify for the third spot at Nebelhorn.

 

[Sylvia]

Zhou underperformed in his three most pressure-filled events: ... 2018 qualifying Nationals, where he needed a BOW argument to make the Olympic team

Vincent won the bronze at 2018 Nationals.

ETA:

And imho the absolute worst possible scenario for him [Zhou], is he goes to Neblehorn and does not deliver the 3rd spot. Then it’s all over he won’t be going to the Olympics. It would almost be better not to go

Why would ANY competitive athlete want to avoid the opportunity of competing at Nebelhorn Trophy to ensure the 3rd men's spot for the Olympics?

 

[VGThuy]

Vincent won the bronze at 2018 Nationals.

He sure did and had the arena standing up after his performance. It was one of those on fire performances where everyone was sure he made the Olympic team until the callers came and started carroting. He still won the bronze though and even the latest Ross Miner article talked about losing his spot to RIPPON not Zhou.

 

[haribobo]

Just remember that beyond CAN and RUS, the US men are competing with guys like Fa, Kerry, Fentz, and Litvintsev for 7 or so spots. If Vincent or whoever we send can't hang with that crowd, something went really wrong, much moreso than an off day where Vincent missed the SP cut at Worlds, which is not as shocking as it sounds, its a much deeper field there...

 

[Dobre]

Zhou underperformed in his three most pressure-filled events

That's a judgment call. Maybe there was a tiny bit of pressure at the Nationals where he had to qualify for his first Olympics and skated well? At the Junior Worlds, which he won? And at his first Olympics where he finished 6th?

Mostly, though, the reality is that yes, the guys go up & down. And this holds true for everyone currently ranked below the top 3.

I would love for Tomoki to make the team, btw. But he & Paniot and Naumov and Pulkinen and Torgashev and the list goes on have all had plenty of tough days. I get the impression that Malinin's name is getting thrown out there just as much because he has less of a track record than the rest of the field as that he has some competitive jumps. He's in the mix. I wouldn't dismiss him, but there's nothing--especially in his second mark--that inclines me to be ready to throw him under a boatload of pressure & expectations heading into an Olympic season.

Vincent's odds are as good as anyone's. Consistency-wise, a Bradie-2018-esque type season for one of the less experienced guys could make a strong argument for the team. Not placement-wise (as Bradie didn't have Nathan in the national field). The door is open, but you'll have to outskate Vincent more than once to walk through it.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Vincent won the bronze at 2018 Nationals.

And Nagasu won bronze at 2014 Nationals.

 

[VGThuy]

Technically, anyone who isn’t the champion has to use BOW for their placement now. Maybe even the champion.