U.S. Men 2019-20 season - news & updates

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
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3,329
Vincent seems confused with his career and took off the season/almost quit the sport entirely. I can't really tell if this was just a press story to gain attention but Vincent's presentation has regressed and unless he was landing all the quads in practice, should not been given a spot based off last season's results. I would assign the up and comer who appears to have skating as a top priority. Vincent can go to 4CC in place of Nathan who probably will skip again.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,598
TBH I have no idea how much is Vincent and how much is his mom. Like many of the local skaters in the Bay a lot of the very good young skaters are skating and very good because their parents see their skating results as a ticket to get into an Ivy League. They aren't in it for the skating, or at least they don't intend it to be that way. I don't think this is a local thing either - Karen Chen is another local example, but you also have Christina Gao and Rachel Flatt. Either way it wasn't a secret Vincent's mom expected him to get into and go to a top college ASAP. But then she had him graduate high school early, and maybe during that time he realized he wanted to keep skating as a focus and hold off on college. But then Nathan showed he could do both so he tried to do both either for his mother's sake or because he thought he could. I wonder what the plan could be - his mother won't be happy that he can't stay at school, but I also wonder if he is starting to control things.

I'm also not entirely convinced USFS will send Vincent over Tomoki. Right now Vincent only has one month of training with his new coaches, and it's pretty obvious. Several of his jumps (even the triples) looked borderline UR'd, probably due to that lack of training or maybe related to an adjustment of jump technique. He might also benefit from more time off to train for next season. Tomoki's also on the upswing scoring and reputation wise, and sending him to worlds may give him a chance to further build his reputation in front of an international panel. Having 4-5 men (Chen, Zhou, Hiwatashi, Brown if he gets a quad, maybe Kraznoshon/Torgashev/Pulkinen) who could make that US Olympic team and threaten for a medal would be a great thing given the potential for injuries among any one of them.
 

dinakt

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,920
I have been rewatching Jason's programs from Nationals, both Short and Long. They are my favorite programs of his in a very long time, and, as a combo, maybe ever. We all know Jason's musicality and SS but for many years it was always one program a year that would grab me, and one would be just OK... and I felt that his interpretive gifts were always a little underutilized. This year both programs are masterpieces that demand his complete artistic involvement, and it is thrilling to see.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
Messages
17,317
Tomoki did not impress me during the fall...

It looks like Tomoki got himself in better training shape and in psychological fighting mode for U.S. Nationals. Neither of Tomoki's programs this season are suited to his personality. The sp is a reach for him as it requires acting out the character, which he never does. And the fp is too unfocused in terms of Tomoki actually expressing the music. As Johnny said, and I paraphrase, 'A lot of cacophonous sound and fury, punctuated by jumps.' Still, it was technically brilliant by Tomoki, just not cohesive or interesting to watch.

I had hoped Andrew would be as sparkling in the fp, but he apparently wasn't able to overcome the pressure of his and others' expectations after his brilliant, uplifting sp. Fifth place is not a bad place to land, but I hope he's learned some competition lessons he can take forward and apply in future.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GnZnnYMkQA Ice Desk men sp wrap-up with Scott Hamilton as guest with other panelists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ctcV0211jM men sp press conference
 

seabm7

Well-Known Member
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2,146

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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23,456
USFS announced the worlds, 4CC, and junior world team camp lists. But I wonder why Ilia Malinin is not included in the junior world team camp.


Wasn't he injured just before Youth Olympics? Maybe he hasn't recovered yet :(
 

NAOTMAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
959
I had hoped Andrew would be as sparkling in the fp, but he apparently wasn't able to overcome the pressure of his and others' expectations after his brilliant, uplifting sp. Fifth place is not a bad place to land, but I hope he's learned some competition lessons he can take forward and apply in future.

He made three big errors. One on the 3A and the other two on quads. Why with his history of inconsistency he went for 3 quads I have no clue. Yes he can do them but he's not consistent enough as a competitor to go for so many in a single program. One would have been more practical. I personally think he's got the artistry and PCS capability to go the Jason Brown route. Start with one quad in the free and then put in more later when he starts getting more consistent. But I'm not his coach so
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
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10,892
USFS announced the worlds, 4CC, and junior world team camp lists. But I wonder why Ilia Malinin is not included in the junior world team camp.


Whoa! I would've sent Vincent to 4CCs with Tomoki, pulled a Russia and sent the better of the 2 to Worlds.

This is not Pairs thread but I thought the selection was even more controversial
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
Messages
17,317
He made three big errors. One on the 3A and the other two on quads. Why with his history of inconsistency he went for 3 quads I have no clue. Yes he can do them but he's not consistent enough as a competitor to go for so many in a single program. One would have been more practical. I personally think he's got the artistry and PCS capability to go the Jason Brown route. Start with one quad in the free and then put in more later when he starts getting more consistent. But I'm not his coach so

Of course, I saw Andrew's fp performance. :)

It was frustrating, but I detected less confidence in Andrew's body language going into the fp. I don't think it is as much about quad selection as it is about fixing the technique on his 3-axel, and finding a way to manage his nerves in pressure situations.

I believe Andrew attempted the third quad because of his earlier mistakes. He was perhaps trying to make up for lost points by adding another quad, although it may have always been planned.

I would've sent Vincent to 4CCs with Tomoki, pulled a Russia and sent the better of the 2 to Worlds.

Apparently, that's not currently how US figure skating wishes to operate. As far as we know, both Nathan and Vincent will be preoccupied with their studies in coming weeks and thus aren't interested in attending 4CCs.
 

NAOTMAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
959
I wonder if Camden had placed 3rd and Vincent 4th would the USFSA still have named Vincent to worlds or would they have simply gone with the podium? Him being named to 4CC over Krasnozhon despite his own history of inconsistency pretty much shows you just how much they personally like him.

That kind of makes you feel worse for Hiwatashi
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
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16,954
I'm a big fan of Tomoki, but I'm fine with this. Vincent is the reigning World bronze medalist, and that is worth a lot respect. Plus, just having that Worlds experience can be so valuable under the intense competition environment there. I figured going into Nationals that Tomoki would need to defeat Jason in order to control his own destiny and Jason would need to defeat Tomoki, etc. Anyway, usually Tomoki does better after he is familiar with a particular competitive environment. If Vincent had really struggled at Nationals, we might have seen a different call. But he didn't. He skated very well. And, I mean, really, what would you do? (Having seen the GP). If you are going to place a bet on Tomoki, Camden, Kraznozhon, Torgashev, or Vincent . . . I mean, what do you have to lose by going with Vincent?

I am assuming Tomoki won a trip to 4CCs:). (I can't look at the official list because I haven't watched the pairs event yet). His skates at Nationals were absolutely the best I could have hoped for! First time he has skated this new jump format clean in competition. This will be his second 4CCs. Then another GP. By next year, he will have a lot more senior international experience than he does at this point in time.

Also am not surprised that Vincent isn't going to 4CCs. Previously, I figured he would go, but having seen where he is right now in his jump format, it's pretty clear that the best thing he can do is go train.

As far as we know, both Nathan and Vincent will be preoccupied with their studies

My impression is that Vincent is done with his studies at this point, as he has moved to Canada.
 

AYS

🌻
Messages
24,660
I have been rewatching Jason's programs from Nationals, both Short and Long. They are my favorite programs of his in a very long time, and, as a combo, maybe ever. We all know Jason's musicality and SS but for many years it was always one program a year that would grab me, and one would be just OK... and I felt that his interpretive gifts were always a little underutilized. This year both programs are masterpieces that demand his complete artistic involvement, and it is thrilling to see.
Look at the interpretation of the music within the spins alone in these programs. And he’s taken his FW sequences to another level. Mesmerizing.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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23,456
Look at the interpretation of the music within the spins alone in these programs. And he’s taken his FW sequences to another level. Mesmerizing.

I saw this comment elsewhere but it's just such a mood I'll repeat it here: it's absolutely incredible how, at 25, he seems to be getting more flexible, not less, and his extensions are just to die for. His balance on the blade is just exquisite. His movements are so controlled, so graceful - he's the one I'd believe had classical ballet training (though I don't think he has).

Holy hell. This skate, this Nationals, I'll be replaying for years to come.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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17,317
That is what Tanith & Charlie's commentary implied on NBC Sports Gold.

Okay, I saw the sp, but I was distracted watching NBC tv for parts of the men's fp. I haven't viewed the fp coverage yet on NBC Gold with Tanith & Charlie, who btw, make a great commentating duo. :)
 

annie720

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,303
I saw this comment elsewhere but it's just such a mood I'll repeat it here: it's absolutely incredible how, at 25, he seems to be getting more flexible, not less, and his extensions are just to die for. His balance on the blade is just exquisite. His movements are so controlled, so graceful - he's the one I'd believe had classical ballet training (though I don't think he has).

Holy hell. This skate, this Nationals, I'll be replaying for years to come.

Actually, in this very candid interview from 2013, Jason mentions taking ballet.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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23,456
Actually, in this very candid interview from 2013, Jason mentions taking ballet.

Oh, thankyou, I hadn't seen this interview before! (Or I didn't remember it.) I wonder if he still does?

Also, "that guy" that Kori showed him for flexibility...that was Joshua! Jason told that story later on, that it was when he saw Joshua do a Charlotte spiral into a 2A that he was really motivated to become more flexible. And now Jason is basically made of rubber :lol:
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
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41,020
Vincent has a way of being able to look really different in a matter of months and maybe the USFS is banking on that. Plus, being the reigning World bronze medalist and we all know what his TES potential makes this a smart move. They are also taking in consideration the fact he probably take off more than he could chew this past first half of the season and he won’t have the same issue going towards Worlds. I do think that if he botches Worlds, he won’t be given this consideration again with a lower than needed placement at Nationals. To be honest, he probably did well given the circumstances and his base value was close to Tomoki’s despite everything.

If I was the USFS, I’d be encouraging Tomoki to train hard for 4CC, build up his rep and train even after 4CC because maybe Vincent May feel less than ready for Worlds. Not that I expect Vincent to give up his spot in that case, but a good 4CC showing this season and a great GP season after can make sure his Worlds spot will never be given away like this again.

I wonder if Camden had placed 3rd and Vincent 4th would the USFSA still have named Vincent to worlds or would they have simply gone with the podium? Him being named to 4CC over Krasnozhon despite his own history of inconsistency pretty much shows you just how much they personally like him.

That kind of makes you feel worse for Hiwatashi

I see your point, but I think the answer is a clear yes they would have taken Vincent over Camden, and I think most people would be sympathetic to the USFS for doing so. Camden may be well-liked but has not done anything remarkably better than Tomoki to have a better case. I think Skate Canada did a lot for Camden to have him named over Alexei whose best GP LP scores are way below both Camden and Tomoki's best ones.
 
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barbk

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,219
It does make the path even harder for Tomoki next year...because that will be the year that determines Olympic slots. Do you send the guy who's never to been to Worlds? Or do you go with safer bets because they minimize risk? I can totally see USFS thinking that way next year.
 

jlai

Question everything
Messages
13,781
It does make the path even harder for Tomoki next year...because that will be the year that determines Olympic slots. Do you send the guy who's never to been to Worlds? Or do you go with safer bets because they minimize risk? I can totally see USFS thinking that way next year.
Yea, and Canada is a safer turf to try out a newbie too.
 

NAOTMAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
959
It does make the path even harder for Tomoki next year...because that will be the year that determines Olympic slots. Do you send the guy who's never to been to Worlds? Or do you go with safer bets because they minimize risk? I can totally see USFS thinking that way next year.

Just a personal guess but I think the USFSA probably thinks they are safe with Nathan and Jason in getting three spots and the third guy doesn't really matter as much. So it would be okay for them to go with Tomoki then since he would just be extra. That would be real dangerous thinking on their part though and I don't think the USFSA is that stupid so I'm probably wrong
 

annie720

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,303
Oh my god.

It's Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Jason's magnificent skate just took on a whole new meaning.

(Off-topic: his eyelashes are unfairly long and pretty.)
Yep, PBS is airing special programming tonight on the Holocaust. Two hours in. So hard to comprehend.
 

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