U.S. Men 2018-19 season (cont.) - news & updates

Skittl1321

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Let's do the math. If next skater up has better skating skills, and/or transitions, and/or composition, and/or performance, and/or interpretation what mark can they be given? You are going back in time to 6:00 system.
Any skater who has "outstanding" skating skills gets a 10.0. It is not a ranking system, unless, again, you can point to me in the ISU rulebook where it says it is and that space should be saved for other skaters? There are criteria that are meant to be applied objectively. If they meet the criteria, they get a 10.0. It doesn't matter what other skaters are doing.
 

barbarafan

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Any skater who has "outstanding" skating skills gets a 10.0. It is not a ranking system, unless, again, you can point to me in the ISU rulebook where it says it is and that space should be saved for other skaters? There are criteria that are meant to be applied objectively. If they meet the criteria, they get a 10.0. It doesn't matter what other skaters are doing.
You are running out of room to judge there. As the changed GOE from -3/+3 to -5/+5 shows there is not enough room to differentiate between super good and totally amazing. If you throw 10's out there for really good every 3rd skater will get them and the wrong people will win. That is not what the changes made to the judging system were meant to do.
 

Karen-W

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You are running out of room to judge there. As the changed GOE from -3/+3 to -5/+5 shows there is not enough room to differentiate between super good and totally amazing. If you throw 10's out there for really good every 3rd skater will get them and the wrong people will win. That is not what the changes made to the judging system were meant to do.
So, are you asserting that Nathan should NOT have won?
 

Tavi

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Nathan’s PCS this season with major errors such as falls and botched jumps were around 45 short and 90 long.

His short at GPF with a missed 4T3T combo (5.70) was 92.99 without considering anything else but replacing it with a perfect 4T3T (19.82), he’d have 107.11. Considering he skated with energy and speed to the demanding Caravan I don’t see giving him 113.42 by the judges is much of an inflation.

His long at nationals was perfect, miles better than any man has produced under the new IJS. The slow music at the opening allowed him to take time with the 4Lz and 4F. As the vocal came in after the 2nd jump, there were plenty of transitions that matched the music into the 3A and 4T. After the midpoint of the program the pace of the music picked up so did his jumps and movements. The choreo sequence matched the music perfectly. Under the electrifying national atmosphere, the judges were carried away a little and gave him 10’s for performance and interpretation and a total PCS of 98.50. I think his perfect execution of the elements and performance would get him similar GOEs and probably 95 PCS with an international panel. Again, it’s not much of an inflation.

I always enjoy the pains Nathan’s performances inflicted on Karne and Maxswagg.
Three problems with your analysis:

1. Each component is supposed to be judged against specific criteria, not by comparison to what the skater was awarded by different judges at different competitions. You can’t justify a 3.5/8.5 point bump by saying well, he was better here.

2. Even if you could, the PCS you’re using for comparison here were already inflated. No one should be getting 45/90 PCS for a sloppy program with falls - those numbers imply that the skater was excellent in all categories, and Nathan was quite sloppy all season until Nats. The truth is, he was getting free World Champion candy from judges.

3. He skated very well at Nats, and I think he was the rightful winner, but neither program was perfect. I just looked quickly at his programs again, and he had poor landings on several jumps including the 3A in the SP and the 4F and the 4T-3T (which he barely eked out) in the FS. In addition, some of his spins were slow in both programs, especially in the camel position, and some of his footwork was slow. Yes he does have good transitions but he does a lot of crossovers in the FS, especially setting up for some jumps. I’m not saying this to be mean, but just because Tara and Michael Weiss went gaga over it doesn’t mean it was perfect.

I’ve heard people say that it doesn’t matter if he was overscored because even if his score were 20 or 30 points lowers, he still would have won. Yes he would still have won even with lower PCS and GOE. But why not score him fairly then? It’s not just the outcome that’s important. If you’re using the scoring system to set your skater apart from everyone else, to position him as “the best” in the world - which is what the judges seemed to be doing at Nats - you’re contributing to a scoring system that lacks integrity. You’re creating the same problems of imbalance that the old system had. And for me that’s a problem.
 

misskarne

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It also sends a poor message to the international judges regarding Jason.

"We think this guy whose FS is nothing but jump-jump-jump is better in PCS than a smooth, beautiful skater with well-choreographed programs."

Great message to send, guys.
 

VALuvsMKwan

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It also sends a poor message to the international judges regarding Jason.

"We think this guy whose FS is nothing but jump-jump-jump is better in PCS than a smooth, beautiful skater with well-choreographed programs."

Great message to send, guys.
You mean...international judges can't think and judge for themselves? :eek: Why, the horror!!!! :drama:
 

Tahuu

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Three problems with your analysis:

1. Each component is supposed to be judged against specific criteria, not by comparison to what the skater was awarded by different judges at different competitions. You can’t justify a 3.5/8.5 point bump by saying well, he was better here.
Of course judges judged on the performance on the ice. Previous results may service as a reference to his ability. If a skater performs clearly better than what he has done earlier, it would not be a surprise that he gets a higher score this time.

2. Even if you could, the PCS you’re using for comparison here were already inflated. No one should be getting 45/90 PCS for a sloppy program with falls - those numbers imply that the skater was excellent in all categories, and Nathan was quite sloppy all season until Nats. The truth is, he was getting free World Champion candy from judges.
International judges gave him free World Champion candy? They also inflated him? It's neither truth nor a fact. It's your fantasy. Are you more qualified to judge than those ISU certified judges? Show us your qualifications, will you?

3. He skated very well at Nats, and I think he was the rightful winner, but neither program was perfect. I just looked quickly at his programs again, and he had poor landings on several jumps including the 3A in the SP and the 4F and the 4T-3T (which he barely eked out) in the FS. In addition, some of his spins were slow in both programs, especially in the camel position, and some of his footwork was slow. Yes he does have good transitions but he does a lot of crossovers in the FS, especially setting up for some jumps. I’m not saying this to be mean, but just because Tara and Michael Weiss went gaga over it doesn’t mean it was perfect.
Again, are you more qualified to judge the performance than the trained judges? It's not only the commentators' opinion but more of the judges' opinion, who were sitting by the board.

I’ve heard people say that it doesn’t matter if he was overscored because even if his score were 20 or 30 points lowers, he still would have won. Yes he would still have won even with lower PCS and GOE. But why not score him fairly then? It’s not just the outcome that’s important. If you’re using the scoring system to set your skater apart from everyone else, to position him as “the best” in the world - which is what the judges seemed to be doing at Nats - you’re contributing to a scoring system that lacks integrity. You’re creating the same problems of imbalance that the old system had. And for me that’s a problem.
How do you know the judges' motivation? If you have not asked and talked to them, you don't know how they were reasoning to give out the scores they gave.
 
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skateboy

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It also sends a poor message to the international judges regarding Jason.

"We think this guy whose FS is nothing but jump-jump-jump is better in PCS than a smooth, beautiful skater with well-choreographed programs."

Great message to send, guys.
Except that Nathan's FS is not "nothing but jump-jump-jump."
 

jlai

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It also sends a poor message to the international judges regarding Jason.

"We think this guy whose FS is nothing but jump-jump-jump is better in PCS than a smooth, beautiful skater with well-choreographed programs."

Great message to send, guys.
Having TES drive PCS is nothing new in the sport. It is five times more severe in the ladies in international competitions. (Just look at certain past world champions...) I don't think this competition, once accounting for national inflation, is doing anything that ISU judges aren't already doing.
I think the GOEs and levels are more problematic because skaters do use those as feedback (more so than the pcs). Hiwatashi and Vincent have been repeatedly dinged for urs internationally, but Hiwatashi hardly got called for them at nationals. That said, I am happy for him, and he SHOULD get one of the highest transition scores for that crazy hard program. I wish he would take some of the transitions out and rotate properly.
 

Tavi

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Of course judges judged on the performance on the ice. Previous results may service as a reference to his ability. If a skater performs clearly better than what he has done earlier, it would not be a surprise that he gets a higher score this time.

International judges gave him free World Champion candy? They also inflated him? It's neither truth nor a fact. It's your fantasy. Are you more qualified to judge than those ISU certified judges? Show us your qualifications, will you?



Again, are you more qualified to judge the performance than the trained judges? It's not only the commentators' opinion but more of the judges' opinion, who were sitting by the board.



How do you know the judges' motivation? If you have not asked and talked to them, you don't know how they were reasoning to give out the scores they gave.
All I’m going to say is that I expressed my personal opinions, that they’re informed opinions, and that I don’t need to justify them to you. Sorry if you don’t like them, but anybody who says they enjoy seeing pain inflicted on anyone else, for any reason, deserves no more response than that.
 

barbarafan

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So, are you asserting that Nathan should NOT have won?
NO I AM NOT.I am saying the PCS given to him were WRONG. as you well know and the fact that he would have won anyways is irrelevant to the situation. Judging is not supposed to be an agreed upon procedure for each competition. It must be constant. This is not fair to the other competitors or the sport.
 

meer

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I'm kind of....amazed that people are still going on about this. He got almost 95 PCS last nationals in the fs for a program that was not nearly as good as he did this year and had a popped jump. He even got 10's last year too. And the world did not end and FS was not ruined. Amazing. :rofl:

There's no way Nathan is ever going to get low 80's PCS at nationals or anywhere else for that matter with a perfect FS when he got 88-90 on the GP with rather sloppy mistake filled programs. You can make the argument that he has never deserved those PCS and it's a gift, but it's rather pointless since that PCS ship has sailed a long long time ago. Nathan is never getting the PCS his detractors think he deserves, especially now. You can stay mad about it I guess? :slinkaway
 

Skittl1321

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You are running out of room to judge there. As the changed GOE from -3/+3 to -5/+5 shows there is not enough room to differentiate between super good and totally amazing. If you throw 10's out there for really good every 3rd skater will get them and the wrong people will win. That is not what the changes made to the judging system were meant to do.
Well if they are "really good" (which I'm going to equate to ISU's "very good") they should be getting 8.00 – 8.75, not 10s.

There is NOTHING in the rulebook that says to leave room for other skaters. It says to judge each skater on what they put on the ice.

I have no doubt Nathan, and every other skater, got a nationals bump. But I don't think his tens were unwarranted in the categories he got them in, based on the criteria.


And marks cannot be compared across competitions. The judges need to provide consistent judging within the competition they are judging. So yes, what is "outstanding" may vary slightly with human nature, one competition to the next; but any "outstanding" skater should be getting a 10.
 

Tavi

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I'm kind of....amazed that people are still going on about this. He got almost 95 PCS last nationals in the fs for a program that was not nearly as good as he did this year and had a popped jump. He even got 10's last year too. And the world did not end and FS was not ruined. Amazing. :rofl:

There's no way Nathan is ever going to get low 80's PCS at nationals or anywhere else for that matter with a perfect FS when he got 88-90 on the GP with rather sloppy mistake filled programs. You can make the argument that he has never deserved those PCS and it's a gift, but it's rather pointless since that PCS ship has sailed a long long time ago. Nathan is never getting the PCS his detractors think he deserves, especially now. You can stay mad about it I guess? :slinkaway
By that measure, all conversation on this board is pointless. Nothing anyone says here is likely to impact what judges, skaters, the ISU, or federations do. Nor is it likely to change the results of past competitions or settle the burning questions of “who was better, Yuna or Mao,” or “what should be done about Nathan’s costume. It doesn’t stop people from talking about them, and in fact, that’s why the board exists.

All of us have different opinions, and strong disagreement on topics like Nathan’s PCS is to be expected. But IMO, it’s out of line to characterize the expression of someone else’s opinion as pointless, and label that person a “detractor,” simply because you disagree with the opinion being expressed - and that’s pretty clearly what you’re doing here.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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We all know PCS hasn't been accurately applied since the inception of IJS and those who don't have the technical goods to be competitive with the top men will have their PCS underscored compared to the top men who are pushing the tech. The men who are taking the biggest tech risks will also have their PCS overvalued somewhat because of how TES and PCS are tied together. Honestly, Jason is one of the biggest exceptions to this rule as he is one of the few who isn't doing quads and can still get top PCS and GOEs to make up for it. This new +5/-5 GOE system will benefit or has benefited Jason as are the rules reigning in on the quads as is the harsher look at rotations. Even then, some can argue his PCS isn't accurate in comparison to other men who have similar or even higher PCS due to their jump content. But I guess with this system the way it is, the fact Jason has made it this far is pretty amazing in of itself. I think all PCS should be reset so that all the competitors in all disciplines aren't grouped together so closely at the top and room could be made for really exceptional skaters who deserve high 8s and 9s in PCS will get them and it actually becomes an advantage over those with ok to good PCS but who have a TES BV advantage.

The problem is that PCS is used like 6.0 and judges who really want a skater who has landed like 4 fully rotated quads to win so they'll make sure the GOE and PCS isn't too far behind to have a "shock" loss. However, IJS is a system where it's supposed to be judges judging what they see and just let the numbers fall where they may. No judge is going to do that though as they clearly have a certain overall ranking working in their heads and they don't want to risk having a result they did not intend.
 

Spiralgraph

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We all know PCS hasn't been accurately applied since the inception of IJS and those who don't have the technical goods to be competitive with the top men will have their PCS underscored compared to the top men who are pushing the tech. The men who are taking the biggest tech risks will also have their PCS overvalued somewhat because of how TES and PCS are tied together. Honestly, Jason is one of the biggest exceptions to this rule as he is one of the few who isn't doing quads and can still get top PCS and GOEs to make up for it. This new +5/-5 GOE system will benefit or has benefited Jason as are the rules reigning in on the quads as is the harsher look at rotations. Even then, some can argue his PCS isn't accurate in comparison to other men who have similar or even higher PCS due to their jump content. But I guess with this system the way it is, the fact Jason has made it this far is pretty amazing in of itself. I think all PCS should be reset so that all the competitors in all disciplines aren't grouped together so closely at the top and room could be made for really exceptional skaters who deserve high 8s and 9s in PCS will get them and it actually becomes an advantage over those with ok to good PCS but who have a TES BV advantage.

The problem is that PCS is used like 6.0 and judges who really want a skater who has landed like 4 fully rotated quads to win so they'll make sure the GOE and PCS isn't too far behind to have a "shock" loss. However, IJS is a system where it's supposed to be judges judging what they see and just let the numbers fall where they may. No judge is going to do that though as they clearly have a certain overall ranking working in their heads and they don't want to risk having a result they did not intend.


Agree completely, Add to this that if a judge dares to give marks that actually differ greatly from what the other judges have given, isn't that judge asked to defend his/her marks? That could put that judge in a precarious position with their own federation, the ISU or heaven forbid us fans (satire there.)
 

jlai

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We all know PCS hasn't been accurately applied since the inception of IJS and those who don't have the technical goods to be competitive with the top men will have their PCS underscored compared to the top men who are pushing the tech. The men who are taking the biggest tech risks will also have their PCS overvalued somewhat because of how TES and PCS are tied together. Honestly, Jason is one of the biggest exceptions to this rule as he is one of the few who isn't doing quads and can still get top PCS and GOEs to make up for it. This new +5/-5 GOE system will benefit or has benefited Jason as are the rules reigning in on the quads as is the harsher look at rotations. Even then, some can argue his PCS isn't accurate in comparison to other men who have similar or even higher PCS due to their jump content. But I guess with this system the way it is, the fact Jason has made it this far is pretty amazing in of itself. I think all PCS should be reset so that all the competitors in all disciplines aren't grouped together so closely at the top and room could be made for really exceptional skaters who deserve high 8s and 9s in PCS will get them and it actually becomes an advantage over those with ok to good PCS but who have a TES BV advantage.

The problem is that PCS is used like 6.0 and judges who really want a skater who has landed like 4 fully rotated quads to win so they'll make sure the GOE and PCS isn't too far behind to have a "shock" loss. However, IJS is a system where it's supposed to be judges judging what they see and just let the numbers fall where they may. No judge is going to do that though as they clearly have a certain overall ranking working in their heads and they don't want to risk having a result they did not intend.
Yes, I think the pcs inflation has been creeping up over the years. When IJS started, skaters started off getting six in PCS and a 7 is supposed to be a good pcs mark. Yet nowadays 80 is the average pcs mark for senior international competition. It's kind of like grade inflation, where now students rarely get a C. Just because grade/score inflation exists doesn't mean teachers who do give As and Bs are stupid. It's just the way the system is set up.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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Yes, I think the pcs inflation has been creeping up over the years. When IJS started, skaters started off getting six in PCS and a 7 is supposed to be a good pcs mark. Yet nowadays 80 is the average pcs mark for senior international competition. It's kind of like grade inflation, where now students rarely get a C. Just because grade/score inflation exists doesn't mean teachers who do give As and Bs are stupid. It's just the way the system is set up.
That reminds me of a joke on The Simpsons where Michelle Obama visits Lisa Simpson (she did not play herself) and was like "I got 'As' in college back when it was hard to get 'As'."
 

Tahuu

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All I’m going to say is that I expressed my personal opinions, that they’re informed opinions, and that I don’t need to justify them to you. Sorry if you don’t like them, but anybody who says they enjoy seeing pain inflicted on anyone else, for any reason, deserves no more response than that.
Yes, it’s an enjoyment. When a skater defenseless on forums and social media uses his performance and result to response to the haters, who spew their hatreds after every competition season after season: no artistry, nothing but jump-jump-jump, a disgrace, a crime … I can see the gnawing pains in these haters’ soul. I am happy for the skater whose success makes his bashers suffer.
 

Vagabond

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Yes, PCS have been inflated over the years, but at the very top level, they are undervalued. It used to be that the top skaters' TES and PCS counted about as much as each other in their overal TSS, but now skaters sometimes receive more TES than the maximum possible PCS for the segment. This overturns decades of figure skating practice where the first and second marks counted as much as each other, with the first mark used as a tie breaker in the Short and the second mark being used for that purpose in the Free.
 

gkelly

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Yes, PCS have been inflated over the years, but at the very top level, they are undervalued. It used to be that the top skaters' TES and PCS counted about as much as each other in their overal TSS, but now skaters sometimes receive more TES than the maximum possible PCS for the segment.
That's because the men are doing more quads, and more difficult quads. The element point values and PCS factors were set up so that the maximum PCS could be on par with the top jump content of 15 years ago.

To solve that problem, aside from removing one jump from the freeskate, they would need to use a larger factor for the program components.

(Or make the scale go up to 12 or something instead of 10, but that would be harder for the judges to readjust to.)
 

Tavi

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Yes, it’s an enjoyment. When a skater defenseless on forums and social media uses his performance and result to response to the haters, who spew their hatreds after every competition season after season: no artistry, nothing but jump-jump-jump, a disgrace, a crime … I can see the gnawing pains in these haters’ soul. I am happy for the skater whose success makes his bashers suffer.
Just because I criticize someone or something doesn’t make me a “hater,” and criticism doesn’t equate to hatred, facts that are seemingly lost on you. As it happens, I generally like Nathan’s skating, although he’s not my favorite skater. I don’t agree with some of his marks, but that doesn’t mean I hate him, the judges, or the judging system.

As I said before, I find it really disturbing that you would ever admit to taking pleasure in anyone suffering for any reason, but especially for something as dumb as whether they’re critical of one of your favorites. It’s particularly ironic when I consider how many times you’ve made really nasty remarks about other skaters over the past few years.
 

slicekw

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Yes, PCS have been inflated over the years, but at the very top level, they are undervalued. It used to be that the top skaters' TES and PCS counted about as much as each other in their overal TSS, but now skaters sometimes receive more TES than the maximum possible PCS for the segment. This overturns decades of figure skating practice where the first and second marks counted as much as each other, with the first mark used as a tie breaker in the Short and the second mark being used for that purpose in the Free.
I agree. It seems to be an ISU answer to the question of "is figure skating a sport?" that they're making the total score much more reliant on the technical score. So right now, the pendulum is swinging more in the "athletics" direction.

One thing that I've noticed lately is that the skaters who have more artistic skills are growing their footwork and spins as well as their jumps. It's one area where Nathan has improved. Jason's always going to be hindered until he breaks through that glass wall of the quad - as much as he's effervescent and artistic, it's right that he be held back from scoring higher than a not-quite-as-artistic but more athletic skater under the current IJS. I'm just happy that the GOE was changed to allow a broader range. I don't know if anyone's done any analysis if expanding the range by 4 points has been able to differentiate the top 20% of skaters. I think we'd need the full year of data to do so anyway.

There are ways for fans to feed back to the ISU and I strongly urge anyone that's unhappy with the current IJS to do so.
 

MAXSwagg

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Yes, it’s an enjoyment. When a skater defenseless on forums and social media uses his performance and result to response to the haters, who spew their hatreds after every competition season after season: no artistry, nothing but jump-jump-jump, a disgrace, a crime … I can see the gnawing pains in these haters’ soul. I am happy for the skater whose success makes his bashers suffer.
No one is “bashing” any skater. People are criticizing improper judging.
 
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Sylvia

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Article published before the Men's FS at Nationals with interesting/insightful quotes from Tomoki Hiwatashi, Alex Krasnozhon, Camden Pulkinen, Andrew Torgashev and Tim Goebel: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...are-there-any-other-u-s-figure-skating-stars/
2019 U.S. World Junior Team Camp (6 skaters, 3 spots) - taking place this weekend
Ryan Dunk [J1]
Tomoki Hiwatashi [S4, JGPF-6] - competing at 4CC next week
Alex Krasnozhon [S5]
Camden Pulkinen [S12, JGPF-5]
Andrew Torgashev [S7, JGPF-wd]
Dinh Tran [J2]

"Selections for the ISU Word Junior Figure Skating Championships 2019 will be announced at the conclusion of the camp."

2018 Junior Worlds results:
6 Camden PULKINEN USA 207.88 17 4
7 Tomoki HIWATASHI USA 206.68 11 7
WD Alexei KRASNOZHON USA 80.28 1 (SP)

December 2018 Junior Grand Prix Final results:
5 Pulkinen 71.85 (1) 124.70 (6) 197.68
6 Hiwatashi 62.48 (6) 128.32 (5) 190.80
Torgashev WD (fractured right toe... resumed training around mid-November 2018)

2019 Nationals results (senior):
4 Tomoki Hiwatashi, DuPage FSC 84.05 (4) 169.23 (4) 253.28
5 Aleksei Krasnozhon, Dallas FSC 82.53 (5) 151.99 (5) 234.52
7 Andrew Torgashev, Broadmoor SC 76.95 (9) 149.02 (6) 225.97
12 Camden Pulkinen, Broadmoor SC 78.39 (8) 121.48 (15) 199.87

2019 Nationals results (junior):
1 Ryan Dunk, Baltimore FSC 68.58 (2) 132.85 (1) 201.43
2 Dinh Tran, SC of San Francisco 64.84 (4) 131.19 (2) 196.03

* = ISU senior competition score this season

ISU SB 31) 223.95 Camden PULKINEN USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2018 31.08.2018
Season Best Score Short Program 81.01 28.09.2018 ISU JGP Czech Skate 2018
Season Best Score Free Skating 147.80 ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2018

ISU SB 41) 215.16 Tomoki HIWATASHI USA ISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 2018 05.10.2018
Season Best Score Short Program 77.22* 14.11.2018 ISU CS Inge Solar Memorial / Alpen Trophy 2018
Season Best Score Free Skating 140.99 ISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 2018

ISU SB 46) 211.03 Alexei KRASNOZHON USA ISU GP Helsinki 2018 04.11.2018
Season Best Score Short Program 75.32* 16.11.2018 ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2018
Season Best Score Free Skating 136.98* ISU GP Helsinki 2018

ISU SB 62) 201.63 Andrew TORGASHEV USA ISU JGP Amber Cup 2018 08.09.2018
Season Best Score Short Program 69.39 ISU JGP Amber Cup 2018
Season Best Score Free Skating 132.24 ISU JGP Amber Cup 2018
Note: Torgashev won the Philadelphia Summer International (Senior B) in early August 2018 with a total score of 206.41 (67.67 SP, 138.74 FS), not counted on ISU SB list.

ISU SB 70) 195.30 Ryan DUNK USA ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018 13.10.2018
Season Best Score Short Program 68.45 ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018
Season Best Score Free Skating 126.85 ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018

ISU SB 110) 169.70 Dinh TRAN USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2018 31.08.2018
Season Best Score Short Program 60.07 ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2018
Season Best Score Free Skating 109.63 ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2018
 

barbarafan

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Well if they are "really good" (which I'm going to equate to ISU's "very good") they should be getting 8.00 – 8.75, not 10s.

There is NOTHING in the rulebook that says to leave room for other skaters. It says to judge each skater on what they put on the ice.

I have no doubt Nathan, and every other skater, got a nationals bump. But I don't think his tens were unwarranted in the categories he got them in, based on the criteria.


And marks cannot be compared across competitions. The judges need to provide consistent judging within the competition they are judging. So yes, what is "outstanding" may vary slightly with human nature, one competition to the next; but any "outstanding" skater should be getting a 10.
bunk...and he got them in all categories. Glad you are not a judge.
 

Tahuu

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Just because I criticize someone or something doesn’t make me a “hater,” and criticism doesn’t equate to hatred, facts that are seemingly lost on you. As it happens, I generally like Nathan’s skating, although he’s not my favorite skater. I don’t agree with some of his marks, but that doesn’t mean I hate him, the judges, or the judging system.

As I said before, I find it really disturbing that you would ever admit to taking pleasure in anyone suffering for any reason, but especially for something as dumb as whether they’re critical of one of your favorites. It’s particularly ironic when I consider how many times you’ve made really nasty remarks about other skaters over the past few years.
Good for you for not getting hurted by Nathan's scores. For your note, I haven't hit back by saying negatives about Jason the past two years.
 

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