aka_gerbil
Rooting for the Underdogs
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Zoueva is also in Florida.
Do you know something? Separately I have heard that Marina and Sergei are planning a move to Florida, or they are already there. Of course, Evgeny has been coaching in West Palm Beach for several years now.
And now it's Kaitlin Hawayek's turn to get some local media coverage from her hometown (Buffalo, NY):Video story on Washington native Jean-Luc Baker by Bradley Warren (KHQ local news reporter based in Spokane, WA and a former competitive skater himself):
Article version:Washington figure skater Jean-Luc Baker’s road to the Olympics continues
Click here to view this video from khq.com.www.khq.com
Washington figure skater Jean-Luc Baker’s road to the Olympics continues
SPOKANE, Wash- The Beijing Winter Olympics are fast approaching, athletes from across the country are preparing to make the case to their respective sports, that they deserve a spot onwww.khq.com
What makes you think Marina can't actually choreograph from ground up? What does that even mean? She has to take someone else's choreography and then tweak it?I have a feeling there's a reason most teams don't go to Platov anymore. He probably is happy with the life he has now. Coaching elite-level isn't for everyone. Many prefer coaching lower levels and adults.
Anyway, I still think both Igor and Marina haven't been nearly as good apart as they were together. Sure many of us rolled our eyes at their work and didn't like they're style of pushing and pulling substituting for actual ice dance holds in order to get speed whereas places like Gadbois are showing how it's done, but look at what they produced in comparison apart.
Igor always made sure programs were full of content and he would maximize and challenge the skaters to go the extra mile athletically to leave an impression while Marina was able to rein him in, knew how to edit programs, and polish the programs so that they didn't look too busy or extraneous with too many arm flourishes in the place of actual choreography (see some of later Chock/Bates programs).
Marina's real issue is that I don't think she can actually choreograph from the ground up and she's not a tech coach and the team she put together to make up tech weren't always the best to eyeing ways to get level 4. Igor can't choreograph at all but at least he seems eager to make a program. He was known as a great tech coach to can get his teams level 4 but then people started wondering when his teams had issues with that later on. Pasquale relied on Anjelika to be the tech coach and she seemed a bit inconsistent. He knows how to choreograph though...at least better than Igor and Marina. Those three could be a threat if they combined forces. I know Pasquale and Igor are already together, but I think Pasquale's programs for the most part could use some finishing to go from good/very good to even better.
Of course my idea above only works if Marina wasn't the way that she was. She really does seem to not to be able to work with others longterm due to whatever it is in her that makes her want to takeover. Of course, the initial Igor break up seemed to have been initiated by him with the teams thinking he had less time for them, but I wonder if there was a reason for that. I also think had Igor and Marina been together, V/M wouldn't have left Sochi so bitter about their experiences thinking mommy put all of her attention to Davis/White. With Igor, they could have split their time in a way to satisfy both teams.
I don't think Marina could fix this. She needs to have a good tech coach with her that could address that. Who does she have right now for that?I don't really care who C/P train with as long as they 1. Stick together and 2. Address their weaknesses.
The major weakness that I see is that they usually skate (and partner) with a gap between them. The top dance teams skate much closer together (as did Nguyen/Kolesnik). I hope that C/P can learn to skate (and partner) closer together. Then, I think their scores will go up.
She’s only been the coach behind 1/2 the medals handed out in ice dance in the last four Olympics. She definitely doesn’t know what she is doing.I like how Marina supposedly doesn't know how to do anything but everyone agrees she'd be the perfect coach.
Because I’ve seen her programs and the fact that the Shibs were left on their own mostly to edit their own music and go to outside choreographers to finally get success. She mostly edited their dances after they did bulk of the work themselves with other choreographers. Notice how not many are going to her for choreography anymore. For singles and pairs, she had an easier time because most of their programs are taken up by level four elements and jumping passes. For ice dance, you have to choreograph the elements. Marina’s best skills in ice dance has been tweaking and polishing programs. When she worked with Igor, I bet both had a heavy hand in choreography. He came up with elements and such and she came up with packaging and theme.What makes you think Marina can't actually choreograph from ground up? What does that even mean? She has to take someone else's choreography and then tweak it?
I've replied to you in the Dance Hall discussion thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...askerade-2020-2021.107408/page-6#post-5947118Who does she [Marina Z.] have right now for that?
They were great but I’m not the only one who thought their programs were kind of empty. A lot of people on FSU said that. However, what they had was gorgeous skills and gorgeous packaging that made them nearly untouchable. Which isn’t contrary to what I said about Marina being great at overall packaging and finishing and polish. People acting like FSU hasn’t been criticizing Zoueva choreography since at least 2004.And here I thought Gordeeva & Grinkov were pretty legendary.
Course, I my Shibs!
FSU criticizes everyone. Going to outside choreographers doesn’t mean Marina doesn’t know how to choreograph from ground up— it could just be an injection of fresh ideas.They were great but I’m not the only one who thought their programs were kind of empty. A lot of people on FSU said that. However, what they had was gorgeous skills and gorgeous packaging that made them nearly untouchable. Which isn’t contrary to what I said about Marina being great at overall packaging and finishing and polish. People acting like FSU hasn’t been criticizing Zoueva choreography since at least 2004.
I agree and was trying to think of his name.I wish they would really surprise us by going to Platov or something.
The Shibs like V/M and D/W relied on Marina for choreography after the Igor split. They often consulted with off-ice choreographers like ballroom dancers like every other ice dance team does. The Shibs even had the choreographer for the film Memoirs of a Geisha give feedback to their FD with that same music, but it didn't translate well via choreography over the ice. She also had issues choreographing their Yankee Polka OD, constantly re-editing it, re-choreographing it, changing it (must like what V/M went through during their last two years with her). However, many V/M fans said Marina was really at a loss as to what to do with them and their Carmen FD and FinnStep SD apparently were heavily choreographed by other choreographers. The dances Marina did choreograph for them, their Sochi FD never gelled and Marina kept tinkering with it. It was a program not a lot of people liked. Marina seemed to gel more with D/W because but nobody was really celebrating their Scheherazade FD or other programs.FSU criticizes everyone. Going to outside choreographers doesn’t mean Marina doesn’t know how to choreograph from ground up— it could just be an injection of fresh ideas.
I don’t remember— were the Shib’s outside choreographers other figure skating choreographers, or were they off-ice dance choreographers? Because translating off-ice dance into on-ice dance is very difficult, and is something I think Marina does quite well.
I wish they would really surprise us by going to Platov or something.
The Shibs like V/M and D/W relied on Marina for choreography after the Igor split. They often consulted with off-ice choreographers like ballroom dancers like every other ice dance team does. However, many V/M fans said Marina was really at a loss as to what to do with them and their Carmen FD and FinnStep SD apparently were heavily choreographed by other choreographers. The dances Marina did choreograph for them, their Sochi FD never gelled and Marina kept tinkering with it. It was a program not a lot of people liked. Marina seemed to gel more with D/W because but nobody was really celebrating their Scheherazade FD or other programs.
For the Shibs, when it was just Marina and her team, she couldn't really come up with programs for them. So they sought Peter Tchernyeshev who choreographed their Coldplay exhibition program to "O" which got a lot of great audience response, so sought him to make their "Fix You" FD. After a bad outing at an Nepela, Marina edited Peter's work, re-arranged the elements, and made some changes to the lifts, etc., and we had the program that put them back on top at US Nationals and to a World silver medal and lots of fanfare. They went back to Peter T. and Stephane Lambiel for their following FD set to the soundtrack of The Truman Show and a mix with Max Ricther's work for "The Leftovers" which helped them win two GP events, and stay on the international podium with V/M coming back feeling great with their new choreography/choreographers at Gadbois. Alex and Maia edited their own music with the help of Ryanimay from the hip hop dance team Quest Crew for their hip hop/blues SD and sought outside hip hop choreographers for their SD. For their Olympic programs, Alex and Ryaninmay edited the Perez Prado Latin-American music themselves and Alex and Maia mostly came up with the content of their dance. For the FD, it was mostly Maia and Alex and Massimo with feedback from Stephane Lambiel and Renee Roca with Marina supervising.
Believe me, I didn't get the Marina has issues choreographing ice dance routines by herself out of nowhere.