Trusova breaks 100 in TES.

essence_of_soy

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5,316
It will be interesting to see how technically competitive Trusova, Shcherbakova, and Kostornaia stay over the next few years at the senior level.

Last season, Tursynbaeva landed a quadruple salchow when she was eighteen. Mind you, she has the body of a ten year old.

Tuktamysheva first landed the triple axel in practice when she was a wispy 14. She is still very compact, but has since become a muscular skater with a similar build to Tonya Harding or Midori Ito. The fact that she has maintained her technical firepower into her twenties is very impressive.
 
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coppertop1

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1,362
The talk of Eteri starving her students sounds like sour grapes. The fact that these allegations are about the top coach who is producing these champions smacks of "If you can't beat them, they must be doing something unethical." Like with the Chinese gymnasts in Beijing or the Chinese Swimmer in London. Why not just praise Sasha for her accomplishments instead of pouring cold water over it.

And it would be nice if people stop saying that the system doesn't reward complete skaters. Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Kaetlyn Osmond and Carolina Kostner were all figments then?
 
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Erin

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9,572
The talk of Eteri starving her students sounds like sour grapes. The fact that these allegations are about the top coach who is producing these champions smacks of "If you can't beat them, they must be doing something unethical."
I haven’t wanted to get into this debate but what you’re referring to as allegations are simply a listing of statements made by Eteri’s students, including her current students, who would have no reason to make things up to give fodder for “sour grapes.”
 

Aerobicidal

Inspired by Selections
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10,583
The talk of Eteri starving her students sounds like sour grapes. The fact that these allegations are about the top coach who is producing these champions smacks of "If you can't beat them, they must be doing something unethical." Like with the Chinese gymnasts in Beijing or the Chinese Swimmer in London. Why not just praise Sasha for her accomplishments instead of pouring cold water over it.

And it would be nice if people stop saying that the system doesn't reward complete skaters. Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Kaetlyn Osmond and Carolina Kostner were all figments then?
Why not praise Sasha for her achievements and simultaneously point out that her coach has created a toxic training environment that might cause lifelong psychological and physical damage to her students?

This whole discussion makes me wonder what would have happened if more people on FSU had been aware of the toxic situations Gracie Gold and Gabrielle Daleman had been facing. Would people have said, "They're still winning events and you're just jealous and it's just sour grapes and they look healthy and they have energy and they look happy"?

The difference here is that we KNOW the disordered eating is being forced upon the skaters. And we don't have to rely on hindsight to recognize the toxicity.

But, instead, people deny, deny, deflect, and deny some more.

Ten years from now, the Eteri skaters might very well be healthy and happy. And if so, that's awesome. And their achievements are laudable either way.
 

Aerobicidal

Inspired by Selections
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10,583
What sense it has to say it again and again. What to do then? Forbid all the figure skating?
I don't know what this means, but you said that someone who looks "happy and pleased" can't have an eating disorder or be experiencing disordered eating.

I have two words to say to that: fashion models.
 

Fiero425

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,913
Why not praise Sasha for her achievements and simultaneously point out that her coach has created a toxic training environment that might cause lifelong psychological and physical damage to her students?

This whole discussion makes me wonder what would have happened if more people on FSU had been aware of the toxic situations Gracie Gold and Gabrielle Daleman had been facing. Would people have said, "They're still winning events and you're just jealous and it's just sour grapes and they look healthy and they have energy and they look happy"?

The difference here is that we KNOW the disordered eating is being forced upon the skaters. And we don't have to rely on hindsight to recognize the toxicity.

But, instead, people deny, deny, deflect, and deny some more.

Ten years from now, the Eteri skaters might very well be healthy and happy. And if so, that's awesome. And their achievements are laudable either way.
Figure skating behind the scenes has more than likely been toxic from the beginning; only getting worse with the revenue potential! There are retched people running it and retched people participating! There are no saints here! It's always something from racism to politics; the little investigative info I've heard makes me cringe! :duh:
 

muffinplus

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Messages
3,571
The difference here is that we KNOW the disordered eating is being forced upon the skaters. And we don't have to rely on hindsight to recognize the toxicity.

But, instead, people deny, deny, deflect, and deny some more.
You don't KNOW anything unless you are part of that camp. The facts are 1) skaters struggle with disordered eating 2) coaches may or may not have a hand in influencing unhealthy habits, some have a stronger influence. This doesn't mean you can make statements like "Coach X is starving her students." as if they are factual.

BTW Gleikhgengauz never "praised" Scherbakova for not eating if this is the interview being referred to


Literally the only thing he said

"you Rarely get to be so Lucky..." ("to have a small appetite" - implied only because the sentence was never finished?). The interviewer was saying Shcherbakova said she was full after eating two pieces of shrimp for dinner and they tried to literally make her eat more but she didn't want to. Of course, we immediately get quotes like "he praised her for not eating anything".
 
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Tak

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2,714
First, a bit of Midori news: NHK showed a program last night (30th October), as a lead up to NHK Trophy, a show with Kihira,Takeshi Honda and Akiko Suzuki. Near the end of program, Akiko talked about "the great Midori Ito" featuring skating snippets from 88Calgary, 89Worlds and 92Olympics. Akiko marveled at the fact that the second 3Ax Midori landed at Albertville was 3 minutes into her free. Rika responded "This is impossible. 3 minutes into the program, my legs are so tired." Then, Midori Ito walks into the studio! She was quite effusive in praising Kihira. Kihira said "I remember you encouraging me, when I was in Juniors, although I fell trying 3Ax at that event." Then everyone wanted to know how she could get so much height and distance on her jumps. Midori answered "It is easy. You only have to skate at your top speed and BAM! jump! You end up getting both height and distance." Both Honda and Suzuki, even Kihira, looked flabbergasted. Honda mumbled "Just getting the axis right requires some moderation of speed.." Kihira blurted "We are not trained to skate at top speed!" It was so nice to see Midori, looking so relaxed!
Sorry to be somewhat off topic.
The shortest time span between major jump being landed in Mens and Ladies, is 4 years. Quad Sal was landed by Timothy Goebel in 1998, then Miki Ando lands hers at 02 JGPF. Miki Ando's best quad Sal was at 04 JPN Nationals (this event was not televized due to switch from TBS to Fuji, that year), but Fuji TV, last year, showed a tape of her quad Sal at 04 JPN Senior Nats, which was totally clean. It was the first time I saw it, myself.
I am intrigued by the idea that first quad Ax or quint toe could be by a Lady skater. This has only happened once before, in 1902 Worlds, when Madge Syers, the only female competitor, evidently outskated everone there. I tend to believe this since the purported winner, Urlich Salchow, offered his gold medal to her and always said that Madge was the best skater there. ISU responded by creating Ladies Division by 1905.
 
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lily

Active Member
Messages
485
Why not praise Sasha for her achievements and simultaneously point out that her coach has created a toxic training environment that might cause lifelong psychological and physical damage to her students?

This whole discussion makes me wonder what would have happened if more people on FSU had been aware of the toxic situations Gracie Gold and Gabrielle Daleman had been facing. Would people have said, "They're still winning events and you're just jealous and it's just sour grapes and they look healthy and they have energy and they look happy"?

The difference here is that we KNOW the disordered eating is being forced upon the skaters. And we don't have to rely on hindsight to recognize the toxicity.

But, instead, people deny, deny, deflect, and deny some more.

Ten years from now, the Eteri skaters might very well be healthy and happy. And if so, that's awesome. And their achievements are laudable either way.
I see Gracie Gold training (in the instagram of her coach) to get in shape again and in the beginning of autumn she did a small competition in US, I see Gabrielle Daleman (just recently) fight to get in good shape again. Why they don't throw away this toxic sport and toxic situations?
What your fight here in forum changes in real skating world? If you are so big enthusiast, you can write maybe articles about that problem - but with better argumentation, than to quote translated excerpts from Russian interviews. For the full understanding is better to read them in Russian. And of course, you have to go to Russian training centre's to see the real situation.
 

umronnie

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,141
While the ISU is on the path of creating new "programs" (like the stupid award show and the WTT) they should think about a mixed competition - men and women together, under the same rules (i.e. same PCS factoring). This should be limited to 12, like a GP event, and could feature the top 6 in season- or world-ranking. It could be a very exciting - and interesting - competition. Bring in Brown and Medvedeva, too, as those without the big jumps but more artistic, and see where the chips fall.
 

essence_of_soy

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,316
First, a bit of Midori news: NHK showed a program last night (30th October), as a lead up to NHK Trophy, a show with Kihira,Takeshi Honda and Akiko Suzuki. Near the end of program, Akiko talked about "the great Midori Ito" featuring skating snippets from 88Calgary, 89Worlds and 92Olympics. Akiko marveled at the fact that the second 3Ax Midori landed at Albertville was 3 minutes into her free. Rika responded that "This is impossible. 3 minutes into the program, my legs are so tired." Then, Midori Ito walks into the studio! She was quite effusive in praising Kihira. Kihira said "I remember you encouraging me, when I was in Juniors, although I fell trying 3Ax at that event." Then everyone wanted to know how she could get so much height and distance on her jumps. Midori answered "It is easy. You only have to skate at your top speed and BAM! jump! You end up getting both height and distance." Both Honda and Suzuki, even Kihira, looked flabbergasted. Honda mumbled "Just getting the axis right requires some moderation of speed.." Kihira blurted "We are not trained to skate at top speed!" It was so nice to see Midori, looking so relaxed!
Sorry to be somewhat off topic.
The shortest time span between major jump being landed in Mens and Ladies, is 4 years. Quad Sal was landed by Timothy Goebel in 1998, then Miki Ando lands hers at 02 JGPF. Miki Ando's best quad Sal was at 04 JPN Nationals (this event was not televized due to switch from TBS to Fuji, that year), but Fuji TV, last year, showed a tape of her quad Sal at 04 JPN Senior Nats, which was totally clean. It was the first time I saw it, myself.
I am intrigued by the idea that first quad Ax could be by a Lady skater. This has only happened once before, in 1902 Worlds, when Madge Syers, the only female competitor, evidently outskated everone there. I tend to believe this since the purported winner, Urlich Salchow, offered his gold medal to her and always said that Madge was the best skater there. ISU responded by creating Ladies Division by 1905.
Wow. I hope someone posts the program to YouTube. It sounds great.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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13,619
I am intrigued by the idea that first quad Ax could be by a Lady skater. This has only happened once before, in 1902 Worlds, when Madge Syers, the only female competitor, evidently outskated everone there. I tend to believe this since the purported winner, Urlich Salchow, offered his gold medal to her and always said that Madge was the best skater there. ISU responded by creating Ladies Division by 1905.
Close, but not exactly. It was said about Cecelia Colledge, the inventor of the layback spin, camel spin, and first lady to do double jumps, that:

"Writing in 1938, T.D. Richardson (author of Modern Figure Skating and Ice Rink Skating) said "Her Free Skating Programme is by far the most difficult attempted by anyone, man or woman, in the Skating World, but she brings off these staggeringly difficult combinations of jumps and spins with such ease and sureness and at such speed that even experts are sometimes deceived as to the real worth of her programme."


 
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Domshabfan

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9,485
I haven’t wanted to get into this debate but what you’re referring to as allegations are simply a listing of statements made by Eteri’s students, including her current students, who would have no reason to make things up to give fodder for “sour grapes.”
Many of them having been translated and then interpreted to some people’s liking. Don’t particularly care for Eteri at all, but some of the reaction here makes me what to route for her and her students more. It is also amazing that there is no vitriol against Orser since his students by the same account as Eteri’s have been starved (Daleman) and left thirsty ( Kurakova).
 

believed

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246
I haven’t wanted to get into this debate but what you’re referring to as allegations are simply a listing of statements made by Eteri’s students, including her current students, who would have no reason to make things up to give fodder for “sour grapes.”
It is disingenuous to write off health concerns for young girls as “sour grapes” just because they are her ex students. Not only does it discount their actual experiences and feelings, it dismisses the real problems of body image, eating disorders, and emotional and physical health among teenage girls.
 

muffinplus

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3,571
Many of them having been translated and then interpreted to some people’s liking. Don’t particularly care for Eteri at all, but some of the reaction here makes me what to route for her and her students more. It is also amazing that there is no vitriol against Orser since his students by the same account as Eteri’s have been starved (Daleman) and left thirsty ( Kurakova).
Had no idea about Kurakova. But then we'd rather talk about Eteri starving her students based on interpretations of sometimes poorly translated quotes here :shuffle:
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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28,597
sigh

Once again, concerns about Eteri and her coaching team arose because THEY THEMSELVES HAVE SAID more than once that they support and approve of extreme dietary methods for their students. Brian and his team have not done this. When they do, we will be concerned about them also.

How many thousands of times do we have to make this distinction?
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,571
sigh

Once again, concerns about Eteri and her coaching team arose because THEY THEMSELVES HAVE SAID more than once that they support and approve of extreme dietary methods for their students. Brian and his team have not done this. When they do, we will be concerned about them also.

How many thousands of times do we have to make this distinction?
They said?

I already watched a video (that I posted above - of Gleikhengauz's interview) based on which it was said here that Eteri's team supposedly praised Shcherbakova not eating anything, when nothing to that effect has been said at all... excuse me if I don't take interpretations of what gets posted as what someone said (statements that are frequently translated and interpreted) at face value.

Anyways, I've had enough of this topic and said all I need to say... just really tired of this bs.
 
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Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
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9,485
sigh

Once again, concerns about Eteri and her coaching team arose because THEY THEMSELVES HAVE SAID more than once that they support and approve of extreme dietary methods for their students. Brian and his team have not done this. When they do, we will be concerned about them also.

How many thousands of times do we have to make this distinction?
They haven't said anything of that sort, how many thousand times will people peddle these lies.

They can't beat her athletes hence push lies ...
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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28,597
They haven't said anything of that sort, how many thousand times will people peddle these lies.

They can't beat her athletes hence push lies ...
What, I can't beat her athletes? That's blindingly obvious. :rofl:
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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28,597
You can't for sure... since american/Canadians athletes can't beat her athletes you are intend spreading lies about her athletes...
Since I have "Team Satoko" and "Team Sofia" in my sig, you automatically assumed I was rooting for American and Canadian ladies. Good one. ;)

And before you go there, I accepted long ago that neither Satoko nor Sofia is going to beat Eteri girls. That's just the way it is and I'm not losing sleep over it. If they can scoop up a couple of the other medals left lying around, that'll do for me.
 

coppertop1

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1,362
Perhaps the topic of abusive coaches and eating disorders, all of which are important topics, should be in a different thread? This is about Sasha's landmark achievement.

So, what is the maximum jump layout with four quads? How many triples can a skater do?
 

essence_of_soy

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5,316
So, what is the maximum jump layout with four quads? How many triples can a skater do?
Trusova combines two of her quad jump passes with triples, leaving her with three passes. One is a triple/triple, a second is a solo triple, and the last is a required jump with an axel take-off.

All up she includes four quads, five triples, and a double axel.

She is currently working on a triple axel in practice. So at some point, she may include that in the free skate, if or when she needs it.
 

attyfan

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8,495
After watching the side by side quads in exhibition ... do the rules allow pair skaters to try such a feat?
 

LarrySK8

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454
A lot of posts here regarding growth and eating and the toxic skating environment.

The reality really is that for these skaters and their quad jumps, their enemies are meat, starch, dairy, sugar and of course, fats.... and growth.
 

lily

Active Member
Messages
485
A lot of posts here regarding growth and eating and the toxic skating environment.

The reality really is that for these skaters and their quad jumps, their enemies are meat, starch, dairy, sugar and of course, fats.... and growth.
And for the others who don't jump quads all that is Ok?
 

Polaris

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Messages
892
It amazes me the posters here who keep insisting that Camp Eteri doesn't encourage questionable diets and think everyone who believes so are jealous and bitter about Russian skating. I saw this same kind of denial when it came to sexual harassment allegations in sports.

There is way too much smoke around Camp Eteri for there not to be fire.
 

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