Trusova breaks 100 in TES.

sjs5572

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All I can say is Alysa has nothing to worry about regarding her PCS when she gets to seniors. If Trusova can get 67 with that FS, then Alysa should pull at least 75!
 

starrynight

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I don’t recall reading similar criticism of his skating or his marks. His weaknesses were conveniently ignored. Why? Due to his gender or his country or his coach? (After all Trusova is coached by the evil Eteri- sarcasm of course)
My apologies if your comment was a little joke and you are being sarcastic and I've missed the point.

But there were threads and threads and threads and threads of criticisms of Nathan.

You should have heard it on here when he had to be carried off the ice on a stretcher after the Nationals gala because he blew his hip doing a quad.

It may seem a memory now, but due to sticking around and being consistent for several seasons and keeping those quads without injury, he has quietened (some) of his critics. Which is what being consistent over the years will do for you.

Nathan is a bit different though, because he always had the ability to be artistic, but it was shoved to the side for quads. In respect of his 2017/2018 free, it used some of my favourite music ever and his first run through had no quads as he was tracing out the program - and it was actually the best performance of the season. By the time all the quads went in, the choreography was completely gone. The Olympic skate, while technically remarkable was just going from one end of the rink to the other jumping whilst wearing all black. I'm glad that Yuzuru's samurai program was the gold medal face of the Olympics.

But to give Nathan credit, he has developed and incorporated more artistry and choreograhhy into his programs than in the past.

It's funny I was a much newer fan to the sport when Nathan came on the scene and I was totally dazzled by those quads and couldn't understand people who were banging on about artistry. But the more I watch skating, the more I realise how important it is to have memorable choreography and artistry or presence. It's what makes people go back and rewatch programs and creates the uniqueness of the sport. So I've changed my views a lot.
 
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bardtoob

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Nathan is a bit different though, because he always had the ability to be artistic, but it was shoved to the side for quads.
I have to admit Nathan Chen did have very significantly developed skating skills when he was a little boy in novice a decade ago. He was doing edge pulls, spread eagles, footwork in both directions ... I mean Scott Hamilton commented on the edges in his step sequence, saying "It's too soon!"

 
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starrynight

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I have to admit Nathan Chen did have very significantly developed skating skills when he was a little boy in novice 10 years ago. He was doing edge pulls, spread eagles, footwork in both directions ...

Yes and I think that's what heightened the criticism of the quads taking up so much time and space in the programs because everyone knew what he was more than capable of in the artistic realm.

I just really want someone else to use the Mao's Last Dancer music and do a full program to it.
 

skateboy

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I prefer more complete skaters, but this judging system doesn’t reward the complete skater.
There have been "complete skater" ladies champions. Michelle Kwan, who started out as a jumping bean and not particularly artistic, developed into an artist with great skating skills as she grew. Yuna Kim was always a good jumper, her artistry improved as she developed.

Trusova, along with the other young jumping phenoms, may very well do the same.

And on the flip side... is there something stopping complete skaters from upping the difficulty of their jump content?
 

bardtoob

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And on the flip side... is there something stopping complete skaters from upping the difficulty of their jump content?
Often it is hard to teach older skaters new jumps because they have lost their "fearlessness", and using a skater like Mirai Nagasu as a counterpoint is not correct because she had been working on the 3A off and on since she was a junior skater in elementary school.
 

starrynight

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Little kids bounce in a way adults don’t lol.

Just go to a beginners skiiing lesson and watch 6 year olds tearing down slopes with no poles and the adults inching around lol. For starters if the kids break their legs it’s just their parents’ problem. Lol
 

Coco

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I don’t like the idea of ladies skating being viewed as something that athletes have to get over and done with by school leaving age. Why even bother then. Just skip the sport.

So different to a sport like tennis where there are champions everyone follows for a long time and come to love. Imagine tennis without Williams, Nadal, Federer etc.
I know exactly what you mean. If ...and this is a big if..she has a growth spurt and loses her quads, there is nothing there. The public tunes in to see the great Trusova /quad artist and it is much ado about nothing. She's been replaced with someone younger who in 18 months will be replaced within 18 months. No continuity for fans. No face to market to casual fans. Inevitably, there will be interviews with limping 19 year olds mourning their flowers for Algernon moment of brilliance.

Gymnastics went through this in the early 90s and their solution, imo, has traded fans' outrage for boredom and indifference.

A lot of this reaction is driven by fans' utter frustration with how PCS are applied.

It wouldn't change the results for Skate Canada, but I think people would feel better about it.
 

Brenda_Bottems

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The television schedule showed figure skating on NBC Sunday afternoon.

I did not see figure skating.

I saw Russian girls doing gymnastics on ice.

I saw atrocious dresses paired with offensive "popular" music.

I heard yet more pandering,flamboyant comments from Weir and his minion.

I made it fifteen minutes,somehow, before turning the television off.

Bring back figures :mitchell:
This,along with going back to 6.0,is the only answer.

-BB
 
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essence_of_soy

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With skaters being replaced by the next big thing on a regular basis, it is very hard to build any kind of long - term appreciation or continuity for developing stars. The era of a Michelle Kwan has well and truly passed.

What I am hoping for in Trusova is, since she has the jumps, I hope that the rest of her skating catches up at some point.

I'm reminded of when Elaine Zayak first hit the sport, when she was criticised for simply being a jumping machine. Four years later by 1984, she really was a complete skater, and a great example of the IJS system 20 years before it came into play.

But because of injuries and the inability to maintain her consistency, she was bypassed by artists like Rosalynn Sumners and Tiffany Chin. Not to mention Katarina Witt, one of the toughest competitors of all time.
 

Zazy

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Since we don't know the future, this season she's the skater to beat. If ladies skating competition medalists are the next 15 year old with the skills, that's what it is.
If that happens long-term, my fear is that many (more) skaters will try to starve themselves to have a pre-pubescent girl's body. Obviously eating disorders are already a big problem in the sport but we've seen women win worlds in recent years while not being stick figures. What if the need for multiple quads means this is no longer possible?

This isn't the young skaters' fault (although I do hope their puberty isn't being artificially delayed) and I don't think they should be prevented from doing quads. But I worry.
 

Cachoo

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I don't have a problem with Trusova: I think we have not adequately addressed just how many wonderful female skaters from Russia and Japan do not make their national teams and have so many skating years left imho. That is not a knock on the quad queens.

When the U.S. dominated there was Katarina, Denise, Midori, Irina, Maria and maybe a few other names from other countries. But now the sport has exploded in Russia and Japan and there are fantastic skaters who might have more experience and artistry but do not have quads. There must be a better way to do this. Again I do not have a problem with the quad queens. I do detest that we miss so many seasoned skaters.
 

Finsta

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There have been "complete skater" ladies champions. Michelle Kwan, who started out as a jumping bean and not particularly artistic, developed into an artist with great skating skills as she grew. Yuna Kim was always a good jumper, her artistry improved as she developed.

Trusova, along with the other young jumping phenoms, may very well do the same.

And on the flip side... is there something stopping complete skaters from upping the difficulty of their jump content?
yes, but even the Michelle Kwan was not rewarded when jumping bean she was. Judges sent her clear message of needing to improve the presentation mark. And she did. Trusova has no reason to improve when rewarded for quads and only quads with such high scoring. I don’t know if her future will hold a complete skater when she has no incentive for improving. Just maybe more jumps. If her body holds up. And maybe it will. But maybe a younger more complete quad jumper will come.
 

essence_of_soy

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Looking at the results for Finlandia versus Skate Canada, I know it is comparing two separate events, but there was only a six point gap overall between Trusova and Kostornaia.
 

DreamSkates

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Sigh. This feels like the same conversations that have been going on re: ladies skating, only now intensified and/or made worse by this quad thing which is not balancing skating (technical plus quality skating skills and artistry).
:wall::wall::wall:
 

Vash01

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If that happens long-term, my fear is that many (more) skaters will try to starve themselves to have a pre-pubescent girl's body. Obviously eating disorders are already a big problem in the sport but we've seen women win worlds in recent years while not being stick figures. What if the need for multiple quads means this is no longer possible?

This isn't the young skaters' fault (although I do hope their puberty isn't being artificially delayed) and I don't think they should be prevented from doing quads. But I worry.
I don't believe Trusova is starving. She has a small body because she is young, but she has the muscles to do powerful jumps.
 

DreamSkates

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Since we don't know the future, this season she's the skater to beat. If ladies skating competition medalists are the next 15 year old with the skills, that's what it is. And, the 2022 Olympic medalists may not be any of the current Russian seniors. Nobody knows. But, overall, the women skaters are athletes same as the men. And they're the ones who've decided they can do what the men can do. They've set a new standard in women's skating. Fans may or may not like it, but that's the fan's problem and not the skater. They have a different agenda.
I agree they are all athletes who set their own agendas and goals. But I also agree with others that program component scores are being inflated for more "athletic" skaters and that is an unjust way to award points, which determines which skaters go home with medals.
 

Tak

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Congratulations to Trusova.
Last time Ladies Division skater challenged the best of Men, technically, was 1988-92. Midori Ito did have technical content (up to triple Axel), since the quad age was just dawning in Mens Division. Browning's first ratified quad toe was at 1988 Worlds. I have to admit that I was rabid Midori fan, then and now. IMHO, Midori would have won JPN Nationals in Mens if she was allowed to compete, 1990-92, since she was the only one landing triple Axel in JPN, man or woman, unitil Kagiyama (the father) managed it. The major difference between Trusova and Ito is the age, Midori was born in 1969, so her first 3Ax in international competition was landed in 88 NHK at age 19. However, Midori's first 3Ax attempt (fall) was in 1984 NHK when she was 15.
Midori Ito was, IMHO, unfairly dinged in artistic scores, until 1989. She was rather un-artistic during her early career, 1981-86, but developed quite nicely, so that low artistic scores particularly 1987-1988 period was simply unfair. Her Calgary Free Skate should have won that portion of the event hands down, but was held back to third place by some incredibly awful judging. IMHO, current scoring system was designed so that "travesty" like Calgary will never occur again. It is so nice to see that it has done its job.
IMHO, perfectly executed jumps have a unique athletic beauty by itself, almost a poetry in motion. Midori at her prime, displayed this in spades. Trusova reminded me of this "Sense of Wonder", I always felt when I was bowled over by Midori's excellent performances, particularly 1989 NHK Free Skate "Shez". For thirty years, for me, this was the BEST Ladies Free performance ever.
Thank you, Trusova, for bringing back that "Sense of Wonder" to the Ladies Skating.
 
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Amantide

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I don't love Trusova's skating per se, but I absolutely admire her. And she's totally adorable.
Ditto! (y)
She is a fighter and I admire that. Plus her quads are not tiny at all. She actually gets a lot of elevation.

Sigh. This feels like the same conversations that have been going on re: ladies skating, only now intensified and/or made worse by this quad thing which is not balancing skating (technical plus quality skating skills and artistry).
:wall::wall::wall:
That's nobody's fault but the judges. No skater or coach should be blamed for that. This venom against these girls by some peeps is despicable. And I'm not even a nice person myself. :lol:
The judges have two sets of marks, TES and PCS, which clearly are separate and is not rocket science to know how to use them. But they clearly are using PCS marks a cazzo di cane.:rolleyes:

The ISU has no choice. They must ban all eteri girls and eteri herself from coaching until the investigation into her starving girls is complete
Heya, Nostradamus. :lol:
 
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4rkidz

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It's interesting - Trusova is going through a slight growth spurt already, but it hasn't yet had any detrimental affect yet (perhaps maybe on the 4 sal, which doesn't appear to be that stable anymore).
She is still very much pre pubescent (therefore no hips etc) until she has enough body fat to go through it (Puberty), That is required as opposed to muscle. If she can still do quads after that will be amazing as women are typically at such a disadvantage physically with their body changes. Even if they stay very slender, hips an shoulder’s make a difference as we see with Medvedeva. So much harder to rotate. BUT ... You cant take away her amazing accomplishment she has really pushed the envelope for women‘s skating, bravo to her!
 

bardtoob

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:yawn: Let's discuss these quad wonder girls AFTER they aren't starved so they don't hit puberty.
The ISU has no choice. They must ban all eteri girls and eteri herself from coaching until the investigation into her starving girls is complete
Eteri's students sure have a lot of energy for being starved. They must train a lot and they have good ice coverage for 4 minutes straight and do a lot of leaping and arm waving.

I am inclined to believe they eat like dancers, which is high protein (high protein dairy, eggs, some lean meat), whole fruits and nuts and grains, water or tea or coffee or broth, and vitamins. It's actually very satiating after you stop craving sugar, salt, and white flour.

... Of course, if a girl eats a dancer's diet before 12, then where would she get the requisite fat stores to start a cascade of growth?
 
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Polaris

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With skaters being replaced by the next big thing on a regular basis, it is very hard to build any kind of long - term appreciation or continuity for developing stars. The era of a Michelle Kwan has well and truly passed.
Not really - just look at Hanyu, who might arguably be the sports' biggest megastar ever. Only for ladies do we have this issue.
 

essence_of_soy

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Not really - just look at Hanyu, who might arguably be the sports' biggest megastar ever. Only for ladies do we have this issue.
I was talking only about the ladies (whom I guess are the bread and butter of the sport.)

Sorry for not being that specific.
 

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