Trusova breaks 100 in TES.

[Meoima]

How about Trusova/Hanyu winning Olympic pair gold in 2026 ?
Side by side quad and 5S throw

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I don't love Trusova's skating per se, but I absolutely admire her. And she's totally adorable.

 

[caseyedwards]

Let's discuss these quad wonder girls AFTER they aren't starved so they don't hit puberty.

The ISU has no choice. They must ban all eteri girls and eteri herself from coaching until the investigation into her starving girls is complete

 

[Vagabond]

How about Trusova/Hanyu winning Olympic pair gold in 2026 ?
Side by side quad and 5S throw

He doesn't have the upper body strength, and I doubt she will develop it either.

 

[coppertop1]

The ISU has no choice. They must ban all eteri girls and eteri herself from coaching until the investigation into her starving girls is complete

Great. The drama queen is here

 

[rfisher]

He doesn't have the upper body strength, and I doubt she will develop it either.

What for her to throw him? I don't know, she's pretty buff. She might could manage if she folded him in half since he's probably twice her height

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

What for her to throw him? I don't know, she's pretty buff. She might could manage if she folded him in half since he's probably twice her height

With her strength, he'd either fly into the rafters or over the boards.

 

[MAXSwagg]

She maybe can jump some quads but she has absolutely no program.

 

[muffinplus]

Let's discuss these quad wonder girls AFTER they aren't starved so they don't hit puberty.

These comments are getting beyond pathetic now

 

[muffinplus]

She maybe can jump some quads but she has absolutely no program.

Her free isn't great but her short is good IMO and she does interpret the music...

 

[Kasey]

An impressive feat for her. I don't care for her skating style at this time, but her accomplishment is amazing. Good for her.

 

[Vash01]

She maybe can jump some quads but she has absolutely no program.

I liked her programs. She is truly amazing.

 

[Seerek]

It's interesting - Trusova is going through a slight growth spurt already, but it hasn't yet had any detrimental affect yet (perhaps maybe on the 4 sal, which doesn't appear to be that stable anymore).

 

[coppertop1]

She maybe can jump some quads but she has absolutely no program.

This is why we can't have nice things

 

[kwanatic]

Trusova's overall skating does nothing for me. I find her mediocre to decent in a lot of areas of her skating...

However, I'm in awe of what she can do with her jumps. She's so tiny but she's also extremely powerful. The quads are huge and she's landing multiples and in combinations too. I think it sucks that better and more well-rounded skaters really don't have a chance next to her but it is what it is. As long as she's hitting 3 and 4 quads in the FS, it doesn't matter what anyone else does--she is going to win. I'd argue her PCS were about 3 points too high...but honestly, what does it matter? If you take those 3 points away she still wins by a mile.

For someone who enjoys skating for both sides (artistic and technical) it's really sad because when it comes down to it there isn't anyone who can beat Trusova if she's putting out that kind of content. And if she's winning by landslides I don't see her team taking the time or energy to focus on making her a better or more aesthetically pleasing skater...she'll be able to win everything just based on her jumps alone.

It's just where we are with women's skating right now. It's the reason I've been watching the men, pairs and ice dance this season...

 

[coppertop1]

Trusova's overall skating does nothing for me. I find her mediocre to decent in a lot of areas of her skating...

However, I'm in awe of what she can do with her jumps. She's so tiny but she's also extremely powerful. The quads are huge and she's landing multiples and in combinations too. I think it sucks that better and more well-rounded skaters really don't have a chance next to her but it is what it is. As long as she's hitting 3 and 4 quads in the FS, it doesn't matter what anyone else does--she is going to win. I'd argue her PCS were about 3 points too high...but honestly, what does it matter? If you take those 3 points away she still wins by a mile.

For someone who enjoys skating for both sides (artistic and technical) it's really sad because when it comes down to it there isn't anyone who can beat Trusova if she's putting out that kind of content. And if she's winning by landslides I don't see her team taking the time or energy to focus on making her a better or more aesthetically pleasing skater...she'll be able to win everything just based on her jumps alone.

It's just where we are with women's skating right now. It's the reason I've been watching the men, pairs and ice dance this season...

The age old athleticism vs artistry debate. I do think she needs to work on her other areas of her skating but she is an incredible athlete. I do like seeing the ladies evolve technically. I think the men have found the balance between athleticism and artistry. I'm not sure what the answer is to get more balance for the ladies.

 

[feraina]

Well it’s interesting. In men’s, multiple quads didn’t crush the competition for a long time: Tim Goeble, Plushenko, Max Aaron, Boyang Jin. It wasn’t until someone like Patrick Chan came along who could do both multiple quads and had amazing artistry that it was an overwhelming advantage. But with the ladies, the judges seem willing to just let the tech side totally take over immediately.

 

[coppertop1]

Well it’s interesting. In men’s, multiple quads didn’t crush the competition for a long time: Tim Goeble, Plushenko, Max Aaron, Boyang Jin. It wasn’t until someone like Patrick Chan came along who could do both multiple quads and had amazing artistry that it was an overwhelming advantage. But with the ladies, the judges seem willing to just let the tech side totally take over immediately.

Quads were the dominating force for the Men in the 6.0 system. I think by the time the IJS came, they weren't a huge novelty anymore and I think by then, the ISU and the judges wanted to see more than the quads. Buttle and Lysacek won their respective World Titles (and Olympic Gold Medal) a clean, quad less program. I think the ISU is happy to see the women evolve technically. Patrick came along and gave the judges the whole package. We will have to see what happens with the women.

 

[skateboy]

How many posters here are actually (or have been) competitive skaters? I would guess not many.

I get the feeling that many do not realize exactly HOW DIFFICULT some of these jumps are. Just describing single revolution jumps (and yes, these are my personal assessments, but most skaters and coaches agree with me), a toe loop is easier than a salchow: both are far easier than a loop, which is probably about three times harder than the sal. A flip is about 4 times harder than a loop, and a lutz is 3 times harder than the flip. (Some say that an axel is the hardest, but I always found it easier than the flip and lutz.)

Turn those singles into doubles and the differences are even more notable. Triples are for elite skaters, especially flip and lutz, which are jaw droppingly difficult... and quads are insanity, with flip and lutz entering superhuman athletic achievement. As much as people bitch about points given to "jumpers," the assigned point values do not accurately reflect the insane difficulty of the hardest jumps.

Even if Trusova were to perform in a body stocking with a 101 Dalmatians print, skating to "Shipoopi" from The Music Man, I ain't got nuttin' bad to say about the girl. Give her all the points. She is amazing.

 

[Marco]

Great for her. If she is training healthily and happily then all the better for her and also for pushing the technical envelop for the ladies.

Still not a fan of her style but I guess it hardly matters now. Medvedeva beats her by 6 points in PCS in the free skate and in return, she beats Medvedeva in TES by 27 points, with a fall. To put that into perspective, Medvedeva did a virtually clean 7 triples + 2 2axels program that is pretty much the maximum for non quad / 3axel jumping ladies. To make up on a TES deficit of 27 points, Medvedeva would have to have roughly 3.4-3.5 point edge on each PCS category since the free skate PCS factor is 1.6. The PCS range for the entire competition isn't that big. Plus Trusova's PCS is already in the 8s so it is currently impossible to beat her if she maintain this kind of jumping level (and even harder than impossible if she had landed the opening 4sal, LOL). The only other top ladies ladies whom I know has 3axels and quads are Kostornaia, Tuktamysheva, Shcherbakova, Young You and Kihira - they probably have less TES to make up and thus only need a lesser PCS edge to beat Sasha.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Quads were the dominating force for the Men in the 6.0 system. I think by the time the IJS came, they weren't a huge novelty anymore and I think by then, the ISU and the judges wanted to see more than the quads. Buttle and Lysacek won their respective World Titles (and Olympic Gold Medal) a clean, quad less program. I think the ISU is happy to see the women evolve technically. Patrick came along and gave the judges the whole package. We will have to see what happens with the women.

We won't have to wait long. Later this week Kostornaia is up against Zagitova at Cup O' Croissants.

 

[umronnie]

Quads were the dominating force for the Men in the 6.0 system. I think by the time the IJS came, they weren't a huge novelty anymore and I think by then, the ISU and the judges wanted to see more than the quads. Buttle and Lysacek won their respective World Titles (and Olympic Gold Medal) a clean, quad less program. I think the ISU is happy to see the women evolve technically. Patrick came along and gave the judges the whole package. We will have to see what happens with the women.

It's a process. The sport evolves in spurts. First comes a technical leap forward and then the artistry catches up.

in 2012, Kostner won her world title with just 5 triples. In 2014 it took her 7 triples just to medal. Now most elite ladies are at least trying 3-3s, and the top ladies have multiple 3-3s and even harder jump elements.

One thing that could help restore balance, as I wrote earlier, is changing the PCS facor to 1.0/2.0.
A typical top ladies' TES in the SP is in the low 40s and in the FS in the mid 70s. The tippy-tops are in the mid to high 40s and 80s and above in the FS. Yet their PCS are capped at 40 for the SP and 80 for the FS. This does not allow for the points spread between the great technicians and the great artists.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

It's a process. The sport evolves in spurts. First comes a technical leap forward and then the artistry catches up.

in 2012, Kostner won her world title with just 5 triples. In 2014 it took her 7 triples just to medal. Now most elite ladies are at least trying 3-3s, and the top ladies have multiple 3-3s and even harder jump elements.

One thing that could help restore balance, as I wrote earlier, is changing the PCS facor to 1.0/2.0.
A typical top ladies' TES in the SP is in the low 40s and in the FS in the mid 70s. The tippy-tops are in the mid to high 40s and 80s and above in the FS. Yet their PCS are capped at 40 for the SP and 80 for the FS. This does not allow for the points spread between the great technicians and the great artists.

By factoring the PCS at 1.0 in the short, and 2.0 in the free, I did a quick recalculation for Trusova and Kihira.

Short Program Totals
Kihira = 45.96 (TES) + 44.24 (PCS) = 90.2
Trusova = 40.96 (TES) + 41.80 (PCS) = 82.76

Free Skate Totals
Trusova = 100.20 (TES) + 84.28 (PCS) = 184.48
Kihira = 77.50 (TES) + 89.35 (PCS) = 166.85

Overall Total
Trusova = 267.24
Kihira = 257.05

Interestingly, the PCS for both skaters increased slightly for the free skate from the short.

It really didn't make much of a difference to the total point gap between both skaters.
(Although, Trusova would have finished second in the men's event, and Kihira, fourth!)

All kidding aside, the short program will be key this season.

Assuming both skaters make the world team and skate clean, Kihira will likely place first or second in the short, and without a competitive triple axel (that we know of), Trusova could finish anywhere from 3rd to 7th.

At this stage, I'm thinking the only one who could beat Trusova is if Team USA recruits Simone Biles and teaches her to skate.

 

[Marco]

One thing that could help restore balance, as I wrote earlier, is changing the PCS facor to 1.0/2.0.

A typical top ladies' TES in the SP is in the low 40s and in the FS in the mid 70s. The tippy-tops are in the mid to high 40s and 80s and above in the FS. Yet their PCS are capped at 40 for the SP and 80 for the FS. This does not allow for the points spread between the great technicians and the great artists.

Problem is - there are only a handful of ladies doing these quads and 3axels. Re-adjusting the PCS factor may fix the issue at or near the top, but may make PCS overly important in the first 3 groups when they only typically only land 5 to 6 triples or so and without anything more than +3.

 

[MAXSwagg]

No one is questioning her technical ability. Honestly, I was there in person and her free skate has absolutely no performance, no expression, no choreography outside of the beginning, middle, and end points where she does those arm and head movements, no acknowledgement of anything going on in the music whatsoever, and the skating skills are completely mediocre exemplified by poor knee bend, almost nonexistent edges, lack of speed when doing the few difficult steps and turns she did do, poor ice coverage...no effortless and smooth flow across the ice at all.

The first 1/3 especially of the exercise consisted of her executing choppy crossovers to get speed for the quads. Her step sequence (also in the SP) - which is where you really see the skating skills, as everyone knows - was so slow with almost know edges (hence the level 2 in the) SP - I could barely make out any definitive turns, the edges were so shallow (and I was only a few rows from the ice) - and no body movements. I would give all her components in the 5s outside of skating skills and transitions which might be in the 7s, and that’s probably (likely) generous. That cannot be called a program.

 

[lily]

I am, honestly, startled of all the negativity what Trusova is getting. And I am very thankful for some positive and reasonable comments what have made above.
The girl is revolutionary, she broadens borders of figure skating, yes she broadens it in technical part.

Not only artistry and program components are important in competitive skating – such a revolutionary technical development is also exciting.

As it is said already, probably no one who is commenting here is a top skater but what I have read in skaters interviews is, that it is extremely hard to show fantastic artistry when you do 3-4 quads in the program.

About artistry, skating skills etc – give her a little bit of time. She is a junior, doing her first steps in seniors. Somehow she has no mercy in that sense: in addition to her 4 quads, she must immediately be a queen of artistry.

Who is superior in artistry, always pays with inconsistency of jumps.

 

[MsZem]

Well it’s interesting. In men’s, multiple quads didn’t crush the competition for a long time: Tim Goeble, Plushenko, Max Aaron, Boyang Jin. It wasn’t until someone like Patrick Chan came along who could do both multiple quads and had amazing artistry that it was an overwhelming advantage. But with the ladies, the judges seem willing to just let the tech side totally take over immediately.

That's not what happened. Chan started out with no quads at all (recall the Great Quad Controversy at 2009 Worlds), which didn't stop him from winning 2009 4CC and medalling at 2009 and 2010 Worlds - arguably more due to skating skills than amazing performance ability (admittedly the skating skills were a performance in and of themselves). He began incorporating a 4T (not multiple quads) into his LP only in 2010-2011, and indeed became more dominant after doing so.

Plushenko lost one competition in the entire 2002-2006 quad, which I would certainly call crushing the competition. He had a ten-point lead out of the SP in the Olympics, and won by 27 points overall. Plushenko only had a 4T, but he was a very consistent jumper - and also among the first skaters to get L4 on a step sequence.

I believe the first skater under the IJS to land at least two different quads in the same program was Brian Joubert at 2006 Cup of Russia. Nobody was landing anything except 4T and 4S until after Vancouver.

 

[Meoima]

Anyway, personally, I think Trusova has a lot to improve in skating skills and performance overall. I do not agree with the PCS and GOE she is getting. But as of right now, there is no one to stop her because our system is designed this way and judges like it that way.

She is adorable though, so... I am fine.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

It's funny how TES and PCS are tied together.

I'm reminded of when the late Denis Ten skated an excellent short program at the 2013 World Championships, and the very next day in the free skate, his PCS rose by almost a point. Even his coach at the time, Frank Carroll, commented on that along the lines of, 'who improves that much in 24 hours.'

The impression I am getting is that judges like consistency, and clean programs with all the jumps landed. Then solid PCS will follow.

 

[rfisher]

Keep in mind if the PCS value were changed to the same factor as the men, that means she could do 2 quads in the SP. She still wins. And, everybody's favorite who can't catch her can learn to do what she does then they'll win.