Training For The Olympics Is Hard Enough. Try Doing That While Earning A Degree [updated] Nathan Chen wants to try while attending Yale University

[Debbie S]

Nathan plays piano (since childhood) and has been learning the guitar in recent years.

Perfect.

 

[BittyBug]

Exactly. I worked for an Ivy for 10+ years.....

• There is no requirement for how long it takes to complete a degree. 4 years is the commonly held belief because that is how most curricula are designed, but statistics show that ~80% of undergraduates take more time to graduate. I can speak from experience; it took me 5 years to finish my undergrad on account of changing my major (not to mention how many non-traditional students I have encountered during my administrative and teaching career). No one is going to throw Nathan out as long as he keeps paying the tuition bill, LOLOLOL.

Maybe all Ivies are not the same. http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/requirements-for-ba-bs-degree/

A student must complete the requirements for the bachelor’s degree in no more than eight terms of enrollment. ....
In exceptional circumstances, a student may petition the Yale College Committee on Honors and Academic Standing for permission to enroll for an additional term.

And http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/leave-of-absence-withdrawal-reinstatement/

Leave of Absence
Any student in Yale College who is in academic good standing will normally receive permission, upon petition to the Committee on Honors and Academic Standing through the residential college dean, to take one or two terms of leave of absence, provided that the student departs in academic good standing at the end of a term and returns at the beginning of a term.

So it appears that at Yale at least, there is in fact a requirement for how long it takes to complete a degree.

 

[Willowway]

Several people have said that the closest ice rink to Yale is Simsbury. Actually, no. The closest ice rink is on campus in New Haven - the Ingalls rink (otherwise known at the Yale Whale). It's a lovely rink and was created for Yale hockey. Not to say that Nathan couldn't commandeer some time there each day. The question is who would coach him and that's a very critical question?

The rink itself is sorta stunning, designed by Eero Saarinen. Being a New Haven native I remember well when it was being built.

All that said, I don't see how he could do his class work and training at the same time, completing each to his satisfaction.

 

[overedge]

Most undergraduate university programs are indeed designed around the model of a four-year degree. And yes, in real life most students do take more than four years to complete. But almost all programs and/or universities also have maximum completion times (as @BittyBug pointed out with the Yale example). "There is no requirement for how long it takes to complete a degree" is kind of misleading.

IME universities try to be sympathetic when students have circumstances that unduly extend their completion times - e.g. illness, family commitments, lack of $$$. But it can be a problem for the student in their academic performance if they are only taking a few courses at a time, or taking many semesters off. They might struggle in upper-level courses if they took the lower-level prerequisite course(s) a long time ago. Or, if the discipline is a fast-changing one (e.g. computing science) what they learned previously might be outdated by the time they get to more advanced courses. So it's to the student's benefit to take the degree at a continual pace.

 

[BittyBug]

Several people have said that the closest ice rink to Yale is Simsbury.

No. What several people have said is that the closest high-level training facility is Simsbury (it's actually Twin Rinks in Stamford, but they are about the same distance). Also, as other posters and Elis have pointed out, the Yale rink is highly scheduled already. Maybe he can get ice time there, but it's not a given.

 

[bardtoob]

According to the Phil Hersh article in IN, Yale doesn't have a premed program.

No good university has a "pre-med program" bachelor degree. You choose a major and integrate pre-med courses into the major. Pre-med students at my undergraduate university typically major in molecular cell biology, which includes all the courses necessary to go to med school, go to grad school for more rigorous biology subspecialties (ie computational biology, biochemistry), or work in biomed.

However, I would have chosen electrical engineering because the rigor is good preparation for medical school and physicians that are engineers can make a lot of money designing biomedical devices.

Maybe all Ivies are not the same. http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/requirements-for-ba-bs-degree/

And http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/leave-of-absence-withdrawal-reinstatement/

So it appears that at Yale at least, there is in fact a requirement for how long it takes to complete a degree.

Note that is does not say they have to be contiguous terms.

To me, the eight term limit essentially translates to a cap on the number of attempts. They do not want you to return indefinitely if you fail your courses repeatedly and often.

 

[Lilia A]

Many universities indeed impose a time limit. In Canadian universities it's usually the length of the program times 2 (8 years for a 4 year program, 10 for a the occasional 5 year co-op program, and 6 for those 3 year programs that still exist). Approved part time programs have a different way to determine time limits (one I've heard of is the number of semester courses divided by 3 = maximum number of years. But I'm not 100% sure).
And yes, I've never heard of a "pre-med" major. It's basically what everyone else has already stated. Any science major of your choice, making sure that you take specific med school course requirements. A bio major will usually have no problem meeting the requirements. A chem or physics major may/will have to take additional bio courses as electives.

 

[BittyBug]

Note that is does not say they have to be contiguous terms.

No it did not but the second policy quoted pretty clearly suggests that a leave of at most two terms will be considered. So 8 terms standard + possible 9th term + possible 2 term leave (max) = 11 semesters maximum elapsed time = 5-1/2 years.

 

[overedge]

My guy friends tell me that while they know full well that there's no such thing as a pre-med major, it really impresses girls at bars and parties to tell them that's what you're taking

 

[bardtoob]

No it did not but the second policy quoted pretty clearly suggests that a leave of at most two terms will be considered. So 8 terms standard + possible 9th term + possible 2 term leave (max) = 11 semesters maximum elapsed time = 5-1/2 years.

Sounds reasonable. One must have a least some capacity to get into Yale, and so to complete a minimum schedule in 5-1/2 years full-time seems very liberal, given you one is almost guaranteed to not have to work for tuition and expenses because of their funding policies.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

No it did not but the second policy quoted pretty clearly suggests that a leave of at most two terms will be considered. So 8 terms standard + possible 9th term + possible 2 term leave (max) = 11 semesters maximum elapsed time = 5-1/2 years.

5 1/2 years, which is right around the average time most students complete a degree. So thanks for spitting the Yale course bulletin at me.

 

[overedge]

There's a difference between the actual time students take to complete their degrees and the maximum amount of time to complete a degree that's set out in policy. The fact that the two amounts are similar doesn't mean that they are the same thing.

 

[dinakt]

As Theoreticalgirl said, you can major in anything you want, and go to med school, so long as you take the med school pre-requisite coursework alongside your major and do specific volunteer work, and etc. In fact, when I'd last checked, although the major with the most students going to med school is biology, the major that has the most success, percentage wise, getting students into med school is actually music.

Really? Cool. I was just going to say that a good friend of mine who did his undergrad in voice (and has a gorgeous tenor), then went to medical school and is an emergency physician.

 

[Polaris]

As Theoreticalgirl said, you can major in anything you want, and go to med school, so long as you take the med school pre-requisite coursework alongside your major and do specific volunteer work, and etc. In fact, when I'd last checked, although the major with the most students going to med school is biology, the major that has the most success, percentage wise, getting students into med school is actually music.

Probably because music is an easy major and you can protect your GPA with it.

 

[dinakt]

Probably because music is an easy major and you can protect your GPA with it.

Totally off topic, but music is not an easy major. Maybe at a bad school.

 

[Polaris]

^It's way easier than any engineering, science, or quant major. Music is one of the easiest majors you can take (unless you're at Julliard) if you want to cruise and protect your GPA.

 

[BittyBug]

5 1/2 years, which is right around the average time most students complete a degree. So thanks for spitting the Yale course bulletin at me.

You are mixing two entirely different issues. Average time is not the same as maximum time allowed. You claimed there was no time limit, but apparently at Yale there is.

 

[bardtoob]

Probably because music is an easy major and you can protect your GPA with it.

If you have every had to perform a memorized piece during juries (aka music finals), you would not say that. Moreover, diagramming the chord structure of a piece, singing from memory a song in a language you don't know while being graded for pronunciation, or writing counterpoint can be every bit as hard as Real Analysis (the "real math" that math majors take that does not have anything to do with computation).

Being a music major is like being a figure skater in some ways. You put in 20 hour of practice per week in order to perform about 4 times a years in front of expert judges that expect perfection, and, like figure skating, they can tell from a mile away if you have not been practicing. You can't cram music like you can many other subjects.

 

[overedge]

^It's way easier than any engineering, science, or quant major. Music is one of the easiest majors you can take (unless you're at Julliard) if you want to cruise and protect your GPA.

*Any* major is "easy" or "hard" depending on the individual student and their own talents and preferences. Engineering might be hard if you're good at music. Music might be hard if you're good at engineering. C'est la vie.

 

[dinakt]

*Any* major is "easy" or "hard" depending on the individual student and their own talents and preferences. Engineering might be hard if you're good at music. Music might be hard if you're good at engineering. C'est la vie.

Yup! Besides, people do not major in music to protect their GPA. They major in it because they have talent and already have likely put in thousands of hours (tens of thousands sometimes) of practice in previous years and think they can make it a career. Often after four years they know that even with a big talent future is uncertain, and their other interests can provide for a more secure lifestyle.
BTW, Yale has an excellent music department- not that I think Nathan is going to choose this "easy" major... But he could, and still get a prestigious degree.

 

[MRani]

I’m just gonna throw out there that I was a chemistry major who thought my work was way easier (for me) than what my music major friends had to do. If I had majored in music instead because it would be supposedly “easier” than taking upper level chem classes, I would’ve failed pretty hard

Not to say it would be the same with Nathan. If he has the talent and passion for it, then he should absolutely pursue music as a major. I’m just saying it’s not a guarantee that he could “cruise” that way. Better to only do it if you truly love it, which I think is solid advice for choosing any major.

 

[iloveemoticons]

Nathan plays piano (since childhood) and has been learning the guitar in recent years.

Wow, is there anything he does not do? He skates at a world class level, plays hockey, plays piano, plays guitar, and has the grades and test scores to get into Yale. Jeebus. I guess if there's anyone who can handle skating at a world class level while going to Yale, it'd be this guy.

 

[sk9tingfan]

Wow, is there anything he does not do? He skates at a world class level, plays hockey, plays piano, plays guitar, and has the grades and test scores to get into Yale. Jeebus. I guess if there's anyone who can handle skating at a world class level while going to Yale, it'd be this guy.

He also danced and I believe was involved in gymnastics at one point

 

[kwanette]

http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/ Phil interviews the Hughes sisters about Nathan..

 

[feraina]

Never mind.

 

[Polaris]

If you have every had to perform a memorized piece during juries (aka music finals), you would not say that. Moreover, diagramming the chord structure of a piece, singing from memory a song in a language you don't know while being graded for pronunciation, or writing counterpoint can be every bit as hard as Real Analysis (the "real math" that math majors take that does not have anything to do with computation).

Being a music major is like being a figure skater in some ways. You put in 20 hour of practice per week in order to perform about 4 times a years in front of expert judges that expect perfection, and, like figure skating, they can tell from a mile away if you have not been practicing. You can't cram music like you can many other subjects.

Agree to disagree. Unless you're attending a music specific school ala Julliard, music was one of the joke majors that people used to pad their GPAs for grad school.

 

[bardtoob]

Agree to disagree. Unless you're attending a music specific school ala Julliard, music was one of the joke majors that people used to pad their GPAs for grad school.

Maybe your college just had a crappy music department.

My first year of college, when I was a music major, I went to this little Christian liberal arts college, like it literally had 1,000 students, where it was understood that we were going to be working church musicians, if not studio musicians. Thus, we had to be able to actually perform well routinely, arrange music, lead an ensemble of instrumentalist and/or singers, etc. And it was no Julliard. We were just expected to be competent.

It is interesting to note that when a music teacher is actually skilled at music pedagogy, that is they can actually commuicate sound technique, the talent the students begin with becomes less important.

 

[overedge]

Agree to disagree. Unless you're attending a music specific school ala Julliard, music was one of the joke majors that people used to pad their GPAs for grad school.

MIT has an extremely well regarded music program, that has many options as well as majors for students in other programs who want to learn or to continue their musical education At a tech-heavy school like MIT, do people think music is a joke major? I can assure you they don't.

 

[alexikeguchi]

I attended Yale as a chemistry major, but I have the utmost respect for my classmates who chose music. As dinakt pointed out above, Yale has a top ranked music program which offers graduate degrees as well and produces many artists who go on to successful performing careers. In fact, the daughter of my favorite chem professor is one of them. It is true that most non-science majors require fewer courses to complete a degree, but they are not necessarily easier. Regardless of the major they choose, the vast majority of Yale students, like Nathan, are incredibly motivated people who are dedicated to pursuing excellence and not just to getting a paper result with minimal effort.

 

[Polaris]

MIT has an extremely well regarded music program, that has many options as well as majors for students in other programs who want to learn or to continue their musical education At a tech-heavy school like MIT, do people think music is a joke major? I can assure you they don't.

Nope. Music is definitely not seen as a "heavy/legit" major at MIT. I would know because one of my degrees is from MIT so you're trying to assure the wrong person.

Also, I would hardly use MIT as an example to prove your case since sometimes the mentality around these corners is Course 6/EECS or go home.

Again, agree to disagree.