Training For The Olympics Is Hard Enough. Try Doing That While Earning A Degree [updated] Nathan Chen wants to try while attending Yale University

[attyfan]

I wonder if Nathan thought that the coincidence of Yale breaks at the time of so many events was a good omen.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I'm not familiar with all the coaching locations in the US, but are there any top coaches around the New Haven area that can work with Nathan when he's not with Raf?

Yes, there are. Depends on what you mean by "around the New Haven area", but within 1-2 hours' drive or less, yes.

 

[Judy]

I worked in an elite boarding/day school in Canada and there were elite sports people (only a small number) that they would support so likely that is what Yale would do on a bigger scale. I had a few Cdn figure skaters over the years.

 

[DreamSkates]

He can probably work things out to do both, but if he wants to remain at the top of the podium most of the time for 4 years while attending Yale, best wishes to him. Name a skater that attended college (especially one like Yale) full-time, and stayed on the podium as they did before college? As Max said, skating is only for a while, but Nathan has a few great years of skating ahead, if he puts in the time and work it takes to remain a champion and in top form. Both elite skating and an elite university required a full-time effort.

 

[screech]

Name a skater that attended college (especially one like Yale) full-time, and stayed on the podium as they did before college?

Dick Button graduated from Harvard in 1952
Though according to his Wikipedia, he was originally planning to go to Yale, being told his skating wouldn't be a problem - but was later informed he couldn't continue competing if he wanted to attend Yale, so he applied to and was accepted to Harvard. Hopefully Yale has changed its stance in the last 70 years!!

Though he was never the top contender, Paul Wylie graduated from Harvard in 1991

Debi Thomas was attending Stanford when she won her world title (though she took time off for the 87/88 season)

 

[BittyBug]

Yes, there are. Depends on what you mean by "around the New Haven area", but within 1-2 hours' drive or less, yes.

Who are the "top coaches" still in Connecticut? Meaning coaches who have worked with senior National, World and Olympic competitors?

 

[livetoskate]

Who are the "top coaches" still in Connecticut? Meaning coaches who have worked with senior National, World and Olympic competitors?

I don't know of any top coaches in CT, but the Ice House in Hackensack, NJ is about 1.5 hours away from New Haven. That's where Morosov is (but I hope he doesn't coach Nathan), and maybe the Petrenkos and Galina Zmieskaya, Johnny Weir's former coach, are still there.

 

[livetoskate]

This thread reminds me of Kevin Shum's essay last year about how tough it was for him to be a student at MIT while training as a competitive skater. His litany of hassles gave me a headache just reading about them. Kevin came in last at nationals. Maybe he has hung up his skates now. He'll have a great career ahead of him as a computer science major from MIT.

http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/skating-or-school?platform=hootsuite

 

[Polaris]

^I don't blame him. But MIT is a special case because even among elite colleges, it ranks at the top in terms of toughness, especially for the Course 6 EECS department that Kevin was in.

 

[BittyBug]

I don't know of any top coaches in CT, but the Ice House in Hackensack, NJ is about 1.5 hours away from New Haven. That's where Morosov is (but I hope he doesn't coach Nathan), and maybe the Petrenkos and Galina Zmieskaya, Johnny Weir's former coach, are still there.

Trust me on this - Hackensack, NJ is more than 1.5 hours away from New Haven. If you hit no traffic, you might be able to make it in that time, but the chances of hitting no traffic traversing Fairfield County, Westchester County, the GW bridge and northern New Jersey are about zero unless you are traveling at a very off hour. And there is no viable public transportation option, so it would have to be driven, which would be thoroughly exhausting unless one were a passenger.

And that's another challenge with Yale's location - travel time to any major training facility. Stamford, Simsbury - either is an hour each way.

Where Nathan might get lucky is if he could find a rink that is not occupied during the day, which is actually not that uncommon - day time ice is hard to fill unless you have a school hockey program or figure skating. And because it's off-peak, the rates are usually much cheaper than prime time. So maybe he'd be able to find private ice.

 

[nimi]

This may be the most important details from Hersh's interview:

• Skate America, in Everett, Washington, takes place during the Yale October recess.
• The French Grand Prix event in Grenoble falls during the Thanksgiving recess.
• The Grand Prix Final, in Vancouver, begins the day before Yale's pre-finals reading period starts.
• The 2019 World Championships, in Japan, are during Yale's spring break.

Nathan can do these major competitions without missing classes at Yale! He can have his programs done and do full-time training during the 4-month summer break from May-August in California or other places. He can do daily program run-throughs for 1-2 hours during the semesters. (...)

I think Raf often has said things like "real training / season preparation is done in the spring" or something along those lines. I can totally see Nathan & Raf doing as much training and preparation in the May-August period in Cali as they possibly can, so that Nathan can then rely on that base -- complemented by whatever training & maintenance work is possible for Nathan to do while in Yale -- to try and get through this insanely challenging (but in theory doable) competition/study schedule for a year and see how it goes.

TBH, I cannot imagine anybody managing to combine a full Yale schedule with full skating competition schedule for longer than one year at a time... But then again, Nathan has done some things I couldn't have imagined possible, so there's that.

 

[bardtoob]

If I was Nathan and did want to graduate from Yale eventually, even if I knew it was incompatible with competing, I would enroll and attend classes for at least literally one day before withdrawing. The reason is that one typically has more rights as a matriculating student that withdraws than as an admit that does not matriculate in terms of enrollment and readmission. It is also a much better situation than deferred enrollment, which is typically more limited.

 

[clairecloutier]

This thread reminds me of Kevin Shum's essay last year about how tough it was for him to be a student at MIT while training as a competitive skater. His litany of hassles gave me a headache just reading about them. Kevin came in last at nationals. Maybe he has hung up his skates now. He'll have a great career ahead of him as a computer science major from MIT.

http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/skating-or-school?platform=hootsuite

Thanks for sharing this essay, I had not seen it before. Amazing!

 

[berthesghost]

Name a skater that attended college (especially one like Yale) full-time, and stayed on the podium as they did before college?

there aren’t any. All of the usual suspects that people will throw out like David Jenkins, Debi Thomas, Paul Wylie, Michelle Kwan etc flipped back and forth with one suffering every time the other was given any attention. All won their oly medals while on breaks or official leave from school.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It will definitely be a challenge. I remember that it took Jeff Buttle something like 3 years to complete his first year of (I think) engineering at the University of Toronto, and he never graduated (as far as I know).

He said that he really wasn't interested in engineering, but thought it was something he "should" do. He didn't have the motivation to slightly through it.

 

[honey]

He said that he really wasn't interested in engineering, but thought it was something he "should" do. He didn't have the motivation to slightly through it.

He also said he was devoting 50% of his effort to school and 50% to skating and not getting what he wanted out of either of them as a result. The phrase “stressed out” is what I’m remember from a fluff piece at some point.

When he went Raf in the summer of 2004 I’m pretty sure that’s when school stopped and he focused 100% on skating.

 

[MsZem]

Name a skater that attended college (especially one like Yale) full-time, and stayed on the podium as they did before college?

there aren’t any. All of the usual suspects that people will throw out like David Jenkins, Debi Thomas, Paul Wylie, Michelle Kwan etc flipped back and forth with one suffering every time the other was given any attention. All won their oly medals while on breaks or official leave from school.

Alissa Czisny and Matt Savoie had similar results during college to what they did when they were not students. Czisny did do a lot of the work online. Paul Poirier has a BA in linguistics from the University of Toronto - you can read about his experience here.

In Europe, Alexander Majorov is a physical therapist and Nathalie Pechalat and Alban Preaubert have Master's degrees (management for her, either management or MBA for him), though I know Pechalat took a while to finish her degree. Kristoffer Berntsson was working on a Master's in engineering at the end of his career; no idea when exactly he did undergrad. Tomas Verner got his BA 2010 and later did at least some graduate study.

I'd be surprised if Nathan Chen managed to graduate from Yale in four years while remaining a medal contender, but it's certainly realistic if he takes an extra year or two, as many athletes do - thus my joking earlier about a redshirt year. A guy in my high school class went to college on a basketball scholarship and managed to get an MBA during his five years there. If someone playing a college basketball schedule can do that, surely Nathan Chen - who is smart and driven - can accomplish his goals at Yale.

 

[chapis]

I am not so familiar with careers in other countries, but in my country, Medicine is a lot harder than linguistics, engineering and practically all the others careers. It is not exactly more difficult than the others careers, but it is too much work, it takes a lot of time to digest and memorize all the information, it's not enough to be smart, it is needed to spend a lot of time reading and it is definitely the longest career. I think part of the concern that people are showing for Nathan is because of the career he chose, not only at Yale but at any other university.

 

[MsZem]

I am not so familiar with careers in other countries, but in my country, Medicine is a lot harder than linguistics, engineering and practically all the others careers. It is not exactly more difficult than the others careers, but it is too much work, it takes a lot of time to digest and memorize all the information, and it is definitely the longest career. I think part of the concern that people are showing for Nathan is because of the career he chose, not only at Yale but at any other university.

Medicine is extremely time-consuming, but it's not something you can study straight out of high school in the US, so it's not what Nathan would be doing at Yale.

Most skaters who have pursued careers in medicine did so after retiring (most recently, I believe, Joannie Rochette and Lynn Kriengkrairut). The only active skater who is a medical doctor is Valtter Virtanen, whom I mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[chapis]

Medicine is extremely time-consuming, but it's not something you can study straight out of high school in the US, so it's not what Nathan would be doing at Yale.

Most skaters who have pursued careers in medicine did so after retiring (most recently, I believe, Joannie Rochette and Lynn Kriengkrairut). The only active skater who is a medical doctor is Valtter Virtanen, whom I mentioned earlier in this thread.

But I guess pre-med is the equivalent to the first years of Medicine in other countries, and it is not precisely a walk in the park.

 

[MsZem]

But I guess pre-med is the equivalent to the first years of Medicine in other countries, and it is not precisely a walk in the park.

It's not. My understanding is that it's mostly about preparatory science courses, and while challenging, it's not as intensive as medical school itself.

According to the Phil Hersh article in IN, Yale doesn't have a premed program.

 

[Sylvia]

Relevant part of Hersh's article:

Chen, 18, has mentioned pre-med, which is not a defined undergraduate major at Yale. The Yale School of Medicine requires prospective applicants to have completed a total of eight term (semester) courses in biology/zoology, chemistry and physics. Yale requires 36 term (semester) courses for an undergraduate degree.
"I need to talk with advisors and people at Yale about what my academic trajectory will look like," Chen said. "Potentially, I can do some general requirements online, then figure out the rest as I go along."
Thomas Conroy, director of Yale's Office of Public Affairs and Communications, did not address directly an emailed question about whether Yale online courses (or others) could count toward a Yale student's undergraduate degree. Conroy's reply noted only that Yale undergraduates are required to live on campus their first two years. A follow-up email seeking further clarification was not answered.

 

[BittyBug]

It is certainly possible to juggle college and high-level skating when the school offers flexibility, whether that means part-time attendance and/or online classes. Yale does not appear to offer a part-time option and has the added challenge of being somewhat remotely located (compared to other skater / college situations like UofM or Colorado or even Harvard).

 

[Debbie S]

It's not.

Also, sccording to the Phil Hersh article in IN, Yale doesn't have a premed program.

Most U.S. colleges don't. There is standard set of courses that med schools require for admission (and that you need in order to take the MCAT) but aside from those, students looking to go into medicine can take pretty much any courses and major they want. Since most aspiring med students are science-oriented, they tend to major in the sciences out of interest, but that is not required.

 

[chapis]

It's not. My understanding is that it's mostly about preparatory science courses, and while challenging, it's not as intensive as medical school itself.

According to the Phil Hersh article in IN, Yale doesn't have a premed program.

oh well, then it will depend on the exigencies of the school, God knows that chemistry and physics can be a nightmare but at least it is not necessary to memorize too much.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

Most U.S. colleges don't. There is standard set of courses that med schools require for admission (and that you need in order to take the MCAT) but aside from those, students looking to go into medicine can take pretty much any courses and major they want. Since most aspiring med students are science-oriented, they tend to major in the sciences out of interest, but that is not required.

Exactly. I worked for an Ivy for 10+ years; you can major in anything you want, as long as you take the courses that fulfill the requirements for the MD program. Nathan could major in Art for all we care and as long as he took the necessary bio/chem/physics classics, he is fine. I have several friends that graduated from my Ivy who followed a similar academic path (one graduated with a degree in... poetry) and turned out just fine.

While I'm here, a couple of things worth keeping in mind:

• Most schools have a minimum and maximum course load limits. It's likely this is something he is considering, as he figures out how to best integrate his education with his athletic career.
• There is no requirement for how long it takes to complete a degree. 4 years is the commonly held belief because that is how most curricula are designed, but statistics show that ~80% of undergraduates take more time to graduate. I can speak from experience; it took me 5 years to finish my undergrad on account of changing my major (not to mention how many non-traditional students I have encountered during my administrative and teaching career). No one is going to throw Nathan out as long as he keeps paying the tuition bill, LOLOLOL.

Nathan is smart, he got into Yale fer chrissakes, so I'm sure he's figuring this stuff out.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

According to the Phil Hersh article in IN, Yale doesn't have a premed program.

You don't have to major in "pre-med", and most schools don't offer that as a major. Pre-med isn't really a major, it's more of a system of advisement. And it's not necessary that your school have a formal pre-med program. What they need to have are the med school pre-req classes, which are a specific series of science, math and etc. classes.

Most U.S. colleges don't. There is standard set of courses that med schools require for admission (and that you need in order to take the MCAT) but aside from those, students looking to go into medicine can take pretty much any courses and major they want. Since most aspiring med students are science-oriented, they tend to major in the sciences out of interest, but that is not required.

As Theoreticalgirl said, you can major in anything you want, and go to med school, so long as you take the med school pre-requisite coursework alongside your major and do specific volunteer work, and etc. In fact, when I'd last checked, although the major with the most students going to med school is biology, the major that has the most success, percentage wise, getting students into med school is actually music.

 

[Debbie S]

although the major with the most students going to med school is biology, the major that has the most success, percentage wise, getting students into med school is actually music.

Does Nathan play an instrument? I know he took ballet as a child. Did his mom ever sign him up for piano or violin? Although majoring in music would probably be just as demanding and time-consuming as the sciences.

 

[Sylvia]

Nathan plays piano (since childhood) and has been learning the guitar in recent years.

 

[IceAlisa]

Does Nathan play an instrument? I know he took ballet as a child. Did his mom ever sign him up for piano or violin? Although majoring in music would probably be just as demanding and time-consuming as the sciences.

Oh yes indeed. He can play his SP music Nemesis on the piano. https://www.instagram.com/p/BXT_nohg4Hf/?taken-by=nathanwchen