The Skate Gods bestow upon you 4 wishes...

[Bellanca]

I think you missed the point of this thread. Jeez, lighten up. I mean really. Learn to laugh a little.

It only works once. And make no mistake about it, it kills some people that their skater didn't win even when they are joking or having fun with it. Never forget that. ?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I'm creating a retro-active GoFundMe to buy Tatiana Malinina a decent free program for the 1998 and 1999 seasons.

She was such a great technician, Aladdin was a terrible showcase for her talents.

 

[bardtoob]

I’m also in favor of seeing a US pair team win gold at World’s!

@Weve3 and I kind of get what you're saying ?

 

[Lemonade20]

If I could have four wishes:
(1) To see a Canadian male skater take gold (never happened before) at the 2022 Olympics
(2) Return of Stars On Ice with more skaters from around the world like in the 90s
(3) Less focus on quads, more focus on artistry & especially story telling
(4) For everyone to be safe, healthy and to keep skating

 

[Miki89]

I wish that Mao was able to magically combine her 2014 Worlds SP and Sochi Olympics LP and win the gold.
(Of course in this ideal scenario, the judging would be fair.)

 

[happycamper2554]

Ilinykh and Katasalapov never leave Zhulin

 

[casken]

Men - I always wished Matt Savoie's lutz didn't abandon him in Torino and he would have shocked everyone by making the podium there.
Dance - An Olympic Medal for Delobel and Schoenfelder. They should have got one in Torino.
Pairs - A world title or Olympic medal for Kyoko Ina, preferably with John Zimmerman. I would have been fine with them beating Shen/Zhao for bronze in Salt Lake City.
Ladies - A world medal or Olympic medal for Leatitia Hubert in 1998. Her and Butyrskaya on the podium at worlds together in 98 would have been a dream.

 

[Polaris]

Yuna Kim to be given her rightful OGM in 2014.

 

[Marco]

Ladies: Kwan 1st and Lipinski 2nd at 1998 Olympics (FS and overall)

Men: Chan 1st and Hanyu 2nd at 2014 Olympics (FS and overall)

Pairs: B&S 1st and S&P 2nd at 2002 Olympics (FS and overall, i.e. no tie)

My 4th wish would be for Ashley to stick with Lalaland for the entire 2018 season. Don't know if it would have made the difference at Nationals but at least none of us would be left wondering what might have been.

 

[Lemonade20]

Yuna Kim to be given her rightful OGM in 2014.

Yes!!! I’m still upset over that one

 

[kwanatic]

I'm going to cheat and use all of my wishes for the women because why not, lol

My heart immediately says Kwan over Lipinski in 1998...but I wonder if Michelle would have continued on for another 6 years stacking national titles and world titles/medals--not missing a podium for 9 years straight, a feat which is yet to be matched by anyone. Would the legend that is Michelle Kwan still be the legend if she'd won that title? If that answer is "no" then as much as I want her to have that OGM, I'd keep things the way they are. Ultimately, not winning was a bigger blessing for her. Tara and Sarah have those OGM moments but Michelle has SO MANY memorable performances and wins and she ended up being a bigger star than both of them combined. I don't think I'd trade all of that for an OGM...

Wishes 2 through 4 all go to the Sochi Olympics. I'd want Yuna for gold, Carolina for silver and Adelina for bronze. Shockingly, this wish isn't about Yuna. Full disclosure and grossly unpopular opinion, I wasn't that impressed with Yuna's Sochi performances. Her SP was very lovely but the FS was kinda boring. It didn't really do anything for me. I mean it was good but I enjoyed Carolina way more in both performances and, if I had my choice, I'd have given gold to Carolina and kept Yuna 2nd...but then Carolina would have received all of the hate Adelina got and I don't want that for my Italian goddess so I put her 2nd.

Now, I'll sit here patiently and wait for the verbal tomatoes and rocks to be thrown at me for that one

Anyhoo, I'd shuffle the podium because in addition to the scoring being so fcuked in that competition, I'd be interested to see what would have happened with Adelina's career had she stayed in. She was actually my favorite Russian at the time. Julia was good but I suspected her career would be short... However, I thought Adelina had massive potential to be a strong skater. She was young and unpolished when she took that OGM and it basically stopped her career in its tracks. She competed twice after that (in Russia) and that was it, but in those competitions I could see where she'd improved areas of her skating. I wonder what would've happened if she'd continued training and competing. Of course consistency was her issue but she proved in Sochi that she was capable of delivering strong performances. An Olympic medal (even bronze) could have boosted her confidence and helped her to turn the corner and be a better competitor. She'd have had competition from Liza T and Evgenia but even then she could have continued to compete at GPs/nats/Euros/worlds and possibly made it to a second Olympics. Plus I know she'd receive like 90% less hate from the figure skating community which would be nice for her.

Just an interesting what if...

 

[Rossig]

Gold for Torvill and Dean in Lillehammer.
Gold for Mishkutenok and Dean in Lillehammer.

 

[Miki89]

My heart immediately says Kwan over Lipinski in 1998...but I wonder if Michelle would have continued on for another 6 years stacking national titles and world titles/medals--not missing a podium for 9 years straight, a feat which is yet to be matched by anyone. Would the legend that is Michelle Kwan still be the legend if she'd won that title? If that answer is "no" then as much as I want her to have that OGM, I'd keep things the way they are. Ultimately, not winning was a bigger blessing for her. Tara and Sarah have those OGM moments but Michelle has SO MANY memorable performances and wins and she ended up being a bigger star than both of them combined. I don't think I'd trade all of that for an OGM...

I think Michelle would have continued for at least another cycle. I believe she always loved the sport and would be motivated to become a double OGM. Also, the professional skating landscape was already declining around her time.

I mean it was good but I enjoyed Carolina way more in both performances and, if I had my choice, I'd have given gold to Carolina and kept Yuna 2nd...but then Carolina would have received all of the hate Adelina got and I don't want that for my Italian goddess so I put her 2nd.

You are not the only one. I remember checking the protocals after the event and I noticed that the individual judges were very split with whom they thought was best in PCS. If it weren't in Russia and with a different panel, it's hard to tell who would win in PCS. I do know that it would probably come down to the second mark, because Carolina and Yuna's TES were quite close. Carolina did get the most 10s from the Sochi panel.

I do wonder if the amount of backlash was partly because Adelina was such a surprise winner. No one expected much from her, even her own federation. I wonder if it would have been more reasonable if the winner was Carolina, Mao, or even Yulia, who was hyped as a strong contender before the event. I think it is a pity how Adelina's career turned out. She is an OGM but it was controversial and she received so much hate when it was not her fault imo. Before Sochi, I remember Adelina was seen as the more artistic one compared to Elizaveta Tuktamysheva. She definitely had the most potential. Her programs in Sochi were terrible choreographically but she was a better technical skater than Yulia.

 

[Lemonade20]

If it came that close in scoring, would you rather go with the artistry or technical scores? Personally I feel like some of the jumps aren’t cleanly executed and yet they got higher scores just for the attempt. I would rather watch a well skated, beautiful program than one with poorly executed but difficult elements

 

[gkelly]

If it came that close in scoring, would you rather go with the artistry or technical scores?

Speaking in general, all else being approximately equal I would give the highest weight to the Skating Skills score (or to the equivalent skills under 6.0 judging, which could affect both technical and presentation scores).

Personally I feel like some of the jumps aren’t cleanly executed and yet they got higher scores just for the attempt. I would rather watch a well skated, beautiful program than one with poorly executed but difficult elements

Out of curiosity, how would you distinguish between well skated, beautiful jumps vs. poorly executed jumps? For example, would you prefer a program with big triple jumps and good flow on their landings but a fall on a fully rotated quad, or a program with medium-sized triples with mostly just-adequate landings and an underrotated quad landed on two feet? Does an obvious error in one jump cancel out superior quality in all the rest, compared to lower quality but no errors that casual viewers would even notice?

 

[Vagabond]

@kwanatic ? ? ? ? ? ?

​

 

[Lemonade20]

Definitely the former. Technique is important, but if someone falls, oops! I just feel like some skaters don’t have good technique when it comes to jumps, almost lazy in a way.

 

[Miki89]

I wouldn't equate bad technique with laziness. Skaters are taught technique by coaches at an early age. The majority of elite skaters have issues in one or more jumps.

Anyways, to answer your question. It depends on what you mean by poorly executed. There are well-skated programs to the viewers' eyes but there may be URs and edges with closer scrutiny. There are programs that are executed very well for the most part but there is one major mistake (fall or pop). There is also something to be said about skaters attempting far more difficult technical content with less than perfect execution than a skater who executes clean programs but with significantly less technical content. IJS is all about adding up the points. The differences lie in what the judges value and how they perceive the skater, which is very subjective. I think a close competition like Sochi is a difficult event to judge. Depending on how one manipulates the numbers, you can make a case for any of the three medalists. I am just surprised new fans got so outraged by Adelina's win like this kind of upset never happened in figure skating...?

 

[Lemonade20]

I wouldn't equate bad technique with laziness. Skaters are taught technique by coaches at an early age. The majority of elite skaters have issues in one or more jumps.

Anyways, to answer your question. It depends on what you mean by poorly executed. There are well-skated programs to the viewers' eyes but there may be URs and edges with closer scrutiny. There are programs that are executed very well for the most part but there is one major mistake (fall or pop). There is also something to be said about skaters attempting far more difficult technical content with less than perfect execution than a skater who executes clean programs but with significantly less technical content. IJS is all about adding up the points. The differences lie in what the judges value and how they perceive the skater, which is very subjective. I think a close competition like Sochi is a difficult event to judge. Depending on how one manipulates the numbers, you can make a case for any of the three medalists. I am just surprised new fans got so outraged by Adelina's win like this kind of upset never happened in figure skating...?

True, I guess it’s hard to understand why one program wins gold over another when you feel more emotionally connected to the silver/bronze performance

 

[gkelly]

True, I guess it’s hard to understand why one program wins gold over another when you feel more emotionally connected to the silver/bronze performance

I feel like commentators do viewers a disservice if they spend more time talking about emotional connection than about technique. Especially aspects of technique other than jump content and obvious errors.

Fans will feel emotional connections to skaters regardless of whether the commentators encourage them to. And different fans may have different preferences than each other or than the commentators or producers of the broadcast they happen to be watching.

If judges feel an emotional connection, that will affect their scores. But it's only a tiny part of everything that goes into PCS, not to mention all the technical side of what is in fact a highly technical sport.

Of course fans and judges and commentators might each feel more connection to certain skaters because of nationality or because of their human interest story or just liking the way they look or the kind of music/choreographic style they chose, etc. The only part that is supposed to count in the scoring is how well the skater appears to be connecting to the music and the movement and the audience during the performance. But that's the most subjective part of the PCS assessments anyway. So from a sporting point of view I really feel it's an extra special layer that deserves some reward when present, but not the main point of the competition.

 

[Lemonade20]

I feel like commentators do viewers a disservice if they spend more time talking about emotional connection than about technique. Especially aspects of technique other than jump content and obvious errors.

Fans will feel emotional connections to skaters regardless of whether the commentators encourage them to. And different fans may have different preferences than each other or than the commentators or producers of the broadcast they happen to be watching.

If judges feel an emotional connection, that will affect their scores. But it's only a tiny part of everything that goes into PCS, not to mention all the technical side of what is in fact a highly technical sport.

Of course fans and judges and commentators might each feel more connection to certain skaters because of nationality or because of their human interest story or just liking the way they look or the kind of music/choreographic style they chose, etc. The only part that is supposed to count in the scoring is how well the skater appears to be connecting to the music and the movement and the audience during the performance. But that's the most subjective part of the PCS assessments anyway. So from a sporting point of view I really feel it's an extra special layer that deserves some reward when present, but not the main point of the competition.

Well put!

 

[Miki89]

Bottom Line is that it's almost impossible to be objective about figure skating. Even if we replace the judges with robots, I bet there will still be arguments over scores. I can write an essay about how I think Michelle should have won over Tara in Nagano based on far superior choreography, expression, skating skills, and overall technique. But the judges and the audience were wowed by Tara's 3-3 combo and energy that night. Oh well... I mean that's why we have these dream scenarios right?

 

[mjb52]

Gold for M & D in '94. Gold for U & Z in '94 but with the caveat that they would have had a different free that suited them better (although I haven't watched their '94 free in literally decades and wonder if I might like it better now that I am older). Ok maybe that's not how this thread works but it's MY wish so...

Gold for S & K at 2020 Montreal Worlds. LOOK IT IS MY WISH, let's change all kinds of realities for the better while we are at it.

I'll save #4.

 

[I❤️Marina&Sergai]

Gold for M & D in '94. Gold for U & Z in '94 but with the caveat that they would have had a different free that suited them better (although I haven't watched their '94 free in literally decades and wonder if I might like it better now that I am older). Ok maybe that's not how this thread works but it's MY wish so...

Gold for S & K at 2020 Montreal Worlds. LOOK IT IS MY WISH, let's change all kinds of realities for the better while we are at it.

I'll save #4.

I wish Usova and Zhulin had used any of their other free programmes in 94. They were magnificent and that programme didn’t do them justice. I felt M&D should have won the OG again 94 I can’t help feeling that they were hampered by the their lacklustre performance in the Europeans

 

[Immortelle]

I wish Usova and Zhulin had used any of their other free programmes in 94. They were magnificent and that programme didn’t do them justice. I felt M&D should have won the OG again 94 I can’t help feeling that they were hampered by the their lacklustre performance in the Europeans

I agree with you there. The new rules and the poor choice of FD program did not do U/Z any favours. But I would keep T/D winning the OD, it really was exceptional. That said, the buzz created by G/P’s FD was fantastic and they got the crowd going. I so wanted to love T/D’s FD but I just...didn’t

I haven’t seen G/G and M/D’s performances in a while. It’s raining here today so I might get on YouTube!

 

[mjb52]

I didn't like T & D's FD either and while I was on their side at the time because they were so legendary, when I look back on it, I think they could have been more gracious about G & P's victory. I hesitated to say that before the last time this came up b/c I respect their skating so much in general, but hey we're here to discuss things so. It doesn't take anything away from their extraordinary accomplishments or legendary status, but there was a slight sense of entitlement to the way it seemed people just expected them to get the gold b/c of who they were. It's definitely something to think about, the role just having the right program plays in who gets the gold medal. G & P really picked the right program at the right time both times around.

 

[I❤️Marina&Sergai]

I agree with you there. The new rules and the poor choice of FD program did not do U/Z any favours. But I would keep T/D winning the OD, it really was exceptional. That said, the buzz created by G/P’s FD was fantastic and they got the crowd going. I so wanted to love T/D’s FD but I just...didn’t

I haven’t seen G/G and M/D’s performances in a while. It’s raining here today so I might get on YouTube!

I agree with you there. The new rules and the poor choice of FD program did not do U/Z any favours. But I would keep T/D winning the OD, it really was exceptional. That said, the buzz created by G/P’s FD was fantastic and they got the crowd going. I so wanted to love T/D’s FD but I just...didn’t

I haven’t seen G/G and M/D’s performances in a while. It’s raining here today so I might get on YouTube!

I agree about G & P they generated such a buzz at the Europeans. I remember watching with my Mum and though we hand rooted for T&D we both preferred G&P. T & D FD just lacked some of their usual imagination and reworking it for the Olympics was a bit of gamble. I still feel disappointed in U&Z material for the FD as with their quality they deserved better. That being said I liked all of the top three Rumbas

 

[olympic]

I guess I would use my wishes to right the wrongs of the more egregious judging errors or politik that I can recall from Olympic history -

1. Tim Wood - 1968 OGM
2. Blumberg / Seibert - 1984 OBM
3. Kerrigan - 1994 OGM
4. Yu Na Kim - 2014 OGM

If I had more wishes, my 1st 'alternate wish' would be for a healthy Babilonia / Gardner to compete cleanly at Lake Placid and even '80 Worlds, just to see where they would land. They could have won a 2nd world title at '80 Worlds in Dortmund [Rodnina was injured and they were essentially retired].

 

[Bigbird]

Ice Dance: P/C over S/K at Europeans 2020. They should have been much further ahead in the RD and in terms of bobbles they had no more greater ones than S/K in the FD. That was a travesty.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I guess I would use my wishes to right the wrongs of the more egregious judging errors or politik that I can recall from Olympic history -

1. Tim Wood - 1968 OGM
2. Blumberg / Seibert - 1984 OBM
3. Kerrigan - 1994 OGM
4. Yu Na Kim - 2014 OGM

If I had more wishes, my 1st 'alternate wish' would be for a healthy Babilonia / Gardner to compete cleanly at Lake Placid and even '80 Worlds, just to see where they would land. They could have won a 2nd world title at '80 Worlds in Dortmund [Rodnina was injured and they were essentially retired].

I'm with you on the first three, and my fourth and fifth are yours swapped.