The Heir, The Spare and the “Baby Brain” -The Prince Harry and Meghan show rumbles on…

They are usually buried in the seats.

I don't know if the set-up is still the same, but when I went with a friend to her mother's house somewhere in Westchester in the '80's, you'd stand in line by zone, and they'd fill the schmantzy black taxis with people who lived in the zone and charge a flat fee for the shared ride. They had those little round jump seats, and there's no way to be buckled into those.
 
Karen-W said:
Listen, folks... Harry is about to lose his lawsuit against the British Home Office for their decision to not give the Sussexes additional security, etc. And we just happen to have a "near-catastrophic" car chase involving them and paparazzi... the timing is... uhm... coincidentally interesting?
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I read he has 2 lawsuits against the UK home office and 4 lawsuits against the British press. His legal bills…. :eek:
 
I wonder what Meghan's new agency thinks of all this. My bet is they orchestrated the awards appearance perfectly - the entry images, her flashy dress, images from the event itself, details on the award, all designed to support her brand, well done.

But then someone - a spokesperson without a name but certainly acting with approval - decides to put a out a statement where none was needed, and further, fill it with hyperbole and speculation. As others have pointed out, including the NYPD and the mayor and I can concur from years living in Manhattan, the details of the chase itself are not at all unusual or dramatic. Annoying to celebrities, sure, but not life threatening and in fact part of their job.

What I find really distasteful is whoever decided to try and paint this in terms too similar to what happened to Harry's mother, leading to many media stories and the mayor himself even talking about the worst moment in Harry's life. Doesn't make sense to me when the entire thing was unnecessary because no one was hurt and no one was ever in any real danger.

And now the agency's thinking we did all that for the awards event, but all anyone's talking about is the accuracy of that statement, which once again calls into question Meghan and Harry's credibility, when just hours earlier, they had a great story out there about Meghan receiving that award.
 
Karen-W said:
Listen, folks... Harry is about to lose his lawsuit against the British Home Office for their decision to not give the Sussexes additional security, etc. And we just happen to have a "near-catastrophic" car chase involving them and paparazzi... the timing is... uhm... coincidentally interesting?
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I don't really see how that would change anything. If this happened in UK, then this situation could be used as an argument in court. But they themselves chose the United States, because they did not feel safe in UK. Demanding special protection in ANOTHER country and not working for this state is incredible impudence as for me.
And on the other hand, I don’t really understand how those special guards from UK would have helped him in this situation.
 

Mugs said:
There is a photo of Meghan, Harry and Doria in the back seat of an automobile on TMZ's web site. Not sure if it's the SUV they were driving in after leaving the award ceremony or the cab they took after leaving the police station (Harry appears to be filming something out the opposite window with his phone) but it appears none of the three are wearing seatbelts. :wall: Press release about "near catastrophic" car chase but no seat belts!! From the descriptions I read, it was M/H/D's driver who accelerated to near 80mph to out run the paps. Why? Stand around for 5-10 minutes, let the paps get their photos and then be safely on your merry way.
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Yes, give photos to people who insult you & harass you. I read an article that when H&M left the ballroom they were rushed by photogs & one asked Meghan how she felt about being from 2 broken homes. And apparently no one kept their distance. I guess H&M aren't entitled to body autotomy.
Mugs said:
I said they have been photographed multiple times over the past week or two, which is an accurate statement. There have been photos of Meghan hiking with friends, Meghan and Harry eating a restaurant with other celebs, Meghan exiting a building with Gloria Steinem. Someone is alerting the paparazzi of their whereabouts.
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The photographer who took the hiking photos admitted he had camped out on their property (which is illegal) to get the pictures. Of course nothing happened to him except he got a payday.

BTW this award was well publicized so no one had to "leak" their location for pictures.
 
taf2002 said:
Yes, give photos to people who insult you & harass you. I read an article that when H&M left the ballroom they were rushed by photogs & one asked Meghan how she felt about being from 2 broken homes. And apparently no one kept their distance. I guess H&M aren't entitled to body autotomy.

The photographer who took the hiking photos admitted he had camped out on their property (which is illegal) to get the pictures. Of course nothing happened to him except he got a payday.

BTW this award was well publicized so no one had to "leak" their location for pictures.
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I heard in a news report that someone yelled out a comment to M&H as they were leaving the ceremony. I didn't hear what was yelled out and it was not reported who yelled out the comment. So as far as I know, there is no confirmation it was paparazzi versus a random person. If the comment was to Meghan about how she feels being from two broken homes, that was uncalled for. On the other hand, it's not like it isn't at least partially true - M has zero relationships with her own direct family (except Doria) and M's relationships with her in-laws are strained (an overly kind assessment).

From the brief clip I saw, there was an open path from the door M&H exited to their waiting car, with security around to keep the path open. What would it have hurt for them to have stopped and posed for a few photos? M&H want to make their millions doing what they want; the paps want to make their money too. I never saw anyone but security put a hand on M or H and I certainly never said anyone had a right to do so.

The hiking photos I saw were of M and friends walking on a neighborhood street. If the photographer hid on M&H's property, then they are paying big bucks for shit security and that's nobody's fault but M&H. There were no reports that M and friends were accosted or surprised by a photographer and they all had generally pleasant facial expressions (no concern or fear). Also there were follow up reports about M wearing a "peace" necklace from her team. Why would her team do that if these photos weren't approved? I don't buy for one minute that the hiking photos were from someone hiding on their property unless the hiding was approved.

I never said there was a leak about the location of this award ceremony. I gave three examples of recent M&H photos and the awards ceremony was not one of them.

I have read many of your posts. You're clearly a M&H uber who thinks they do no wrong. I'm not an M&H fan nor am I an M&H hater. I have followed the BRF since the days of Diana. Before you respond back to any more of my posts, learn reading comprehension and please do not put words in my mouth about body autonomy or anything else. You have the right to your opinions but you do not have the right to exaggerate, embellish and editorialize my thoughts and statements to fit your agenda.
 
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Nobody should be getting into high speed chases. If your scared call the police.

In fairness it is not in the taxi cab drivers interest to say he got in a car chase.

I don’t think the paparazzi should be chasing down anyone.

But if your going to a fundraiser. Where you invite the press it IS part of your job to give them some pictures.

A lot of the celebrities use the press and call them to take pictures so they can be seen in certain places with certain people.
 
I'm not defending this behaviour at all, but it's very common for paparazzi to yell insults or cruel questions at celebs, in hopes of getting a better picture that will sell for more money. A celeb snarling or swinging a fist at the camera lens is more "newsworthy" than a celeb smiling and posing.

Which is to say, paparazzi asking Meghan about broken homes is not reliable evidence that the media or the dark state or the BRF or whoever are conducting a campaign of harassment specifically targeting H&M.
 
Thinking about what @Jenny said above, after reading SPARE I felt like I understood Harry's perspective a little better. He was in the armed forces for almost a decade and saw some really awful things during his service (some so awful that he wouldn't describe them), and I would guess probably has some untreated PTSD as a result of that. And for various other reasons he is terrified that what happened to his mum is going to happen to him.

That seems to be why he's super paranoid about security, and probably has more security than is really necessary. He seems to see things that other people would see as not unexpected as further evidence of the danger he's in, and reacts accordingly. That's his reality. And TBH I would guess that there are people who get far more media attention than H&M who don't have as many lawsuits on the go as Harry does, as @miffy mentioned.

But honestly, I don't see how what he and Meghan seem to want is going to work. They're not the first celebs to discover that media attention can't be turned off and on as they wish. If they're going to be public figures and monetize their names, the media are going to follow them around, and not always when it's convenient for them. But if the media ignore them and go away, they would probably complain that their truth is being silenced and this is further evidence of their being ostracized by the BRF and the establishment. There's no good way forward in this situation.
 
Not surprised to read that more people have questions about this chase... nothing surprises me with these two. M has yearned to be a star and Harry was her ticket, except... not. For someone who wants privacy (him), to someone who says she does but really doesn't (her), this life of trying to have both seems difficult. I remember all H wanted was to live quietly in Africa, where he felt relaxed and at peace... what happened to that Harry? Instead we have publicists, set up pap shots (usually of her, or her with him...rarely just him), awards that no one has heard of, a strange car chase that many people believe was actually set up (i believe Harry didnt know about it, but the others might have).... things designed to keep them in the papers to make money, but no evidence of anything of substance. It's just so strange, this couple and how they are trying to live.

It all started out well, Harry seemed so happy... but then the strange behavior started, old friends and family were cast off, claims were made and then retracted... At first things could be explained away, but now it's just a set pattern of behavior. Hard to find the authenticity they claim as their own.
 
overedge said:
But honestly, I don't see how what he and Meghan seem to want is going to work.
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I've been wondering for a while now if they actually know what they want. They said they want the truth to come but what has come out is their truth, not the truth. The truth will likely never come out because it's somewhere in the middle between what they say and what the other side would say but we didn't even get to hear the other side and I'm pretty sure that Harry knew that we wouldn't.
So, to me, it looks like they want to be the victims in every story and cash in on being victims. But I doubt that this is what they really want.

overedge said:
They're not the first celebs to discover that media attention can't be turned off and on as they wish. If they're going to be public figures and monetize their names, the media are going to follow them around, and not always when it's convenient for them.
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I had a similar thought. Are we really supposed to believe that a Tom Hanks, George Clooney, Meryl Streep or Julia Roberts etc didn't have similar experiences with paparazzi? I'm sure they all had their share of uncomfortable and potentially dangerous encounters with them and yet, their spokespersons don't rush out statements about what could have happened.

What I also find an interesting point is that I've heard that a number of celebrities live anywhere but LA because they can do things like go for coffee and not be recognized every five minutes wherever they live. And yet, Harry and Meghan chose to move to LA. Which goes back to my first point and that I'm not sure they have figured out what they want.
 
I was surprised that they tried so hard to hide the place where they stayed for a couple of days. They do not have a secret and forbidden romance to hide.
They did not stay in a hostel, where anyone can go. And if someone wants to break through a serious guard, then it will not be difficult for this person to find out where they are staying.
I hope they don't have crazy fans? If they can't handle the paparazzi, then how can they deal with such a combination of stalkers as paparazzi plus fans.
 
liv said:
I remember all H wanted was to live quietly in Africa, where he felt relaxed and at peace... what happened to that Harry?
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He grew up?

ballettmaus said:
I've been wondering for a while now if they actually know what they want. They said they want the truth to come but what has come out is their truth, not the truth.
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Everyone who says they want the truth to come out means their truth. I mean what other truth is there? ;)

airgelaal said:
I hope they don't have crazy fans?
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I am absolutely sure they have crazy fans just from seeing the comments on stories about them on social media. And crazy haters too.
 
I recall back in the day when Britney and Lindsay Lohan, etc. were major "it" girls that there were horrifying reports of car chases and scary incidents. Several veteran popular stars commented on seeing levels of behaviour much worse than they personally experienced and these girls were young. Probably a lot of it comes down to the worth of the photo and Harry and Meghan are probably a top "get". The only ones who seem to beat the paps at their own game is the Kar/Jenn clan - maybe??
 
airgelaal said:
I was surprised that they tried so hard to hide the place where they stayed for a couple of days. They do not have a secret and forbidden romance to hide.
They did not stay in a hostel, where anyone can go. And if someone wants to break through a serious guard, then it will not be difficult for this person to find out where they are staying.
I hope they don't have crazy fans? If they can't handle the paparazzi, then how can they deal with such a combination of stalkers as paparazzi plus fans.
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And regarding the added factor of Harry's mom getting killed after the paparazzi had chased her relentlessly. That will haunt him the rest of his life, and if he can't deal with that, he'll never get over the fear of a paparazzi chasing him and Meghan.

IMO, it wouldn't hurt if Harry got some type of counseling that would help him where they could go on with their lives without the constant thought of that fear.
 
So now Harry and Meghan's lawyers are going after Backgrid, an agency that already said they had four freelancers on the scene who reported that there was nothing out of the ordinary. Apparently they followed them hoping for shots no one else had - not just coming in and out of the event - in case they went to a restaurant, or and this is me guessing, to know where they were staying so they could camp out and get casual shots of them the next day. Backgrid did say they were looking into it further to be sure there was no wrongdoing.

But then the lawyers sent them a letter and here's the quote: "We hereby demand that Backgrid immediately provide us with copies of all photos, videos, and/or films taken last night by the freelance photographers after the couple left their event and over the next several hours."

So now Backgrid isn't playing so nice any more, sending back a snarky reply that included this quote: "In America, as I'm sure you know, property belongs to the owner of it: Third parties cannot just demand it be given to them, as perhaps Kings can do. Perhaps you should sit down with your client and advise them that his English rules of royal prerogative to demand that the citizenry hand over their property to the Crown were rejected by this country long ago. We stand by our founding fathers."

Did they have to "demand" "immediately"? Could they not have "requested cooperation in the interests of safety for all"? It's more hyperbole IMO that continues to make something that should have been great - the award presented to Meghan, showcasing her causes - into a total mess.
 
Mugs said:
I have read many of your posts. You're clearly a M&H uber who thinks they do no wrong. I'm not an M&H fan nor am I an M&H hater. I have followed the BRF since the days of Diana. Before you respond back to any more of my posts, learn reading comprehension and please do not put words in my mouth about body autonomy or anything else. You have the right to your opinions but you do not have the right to exaggerate, embellish and editorialize my thoughts and statements to fit your agenda.
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Anyone who defends obvious lies about H&M is called an uber. I certainly don't think they can do no wrong. And the withdrawal from public life could have been handled much better. But did you have to insult my reading comprehension in order to make your points? How sad. FTR when I quote someone but then want to make some further points I make a new paragraph. Surprise! Everything is not about you.

(This is a new thought, not replying to you.) I have read numerous reports of the paparazzi "attack". The details seem to change with each new article. Before long it will be clear that M&H lied about the whole thing just to get attention. I have personally seen 2 different elite skaters put at risk by crazed fans & aggressive photographers. In both cases the look of terror in their eyes was chilling. The idea that M&H invite this type of behavior is ludicrous. (To me anyway, YMMV.) When I support them I'm not being an uber, I'm being fair I think or maybe naive.
 
Clearly, the trauma of how his mother died (and the way she was pursued by photographers for decades before) shapes Harry's world view. How could it not? What might seem insignificant or "not that bad" to others would be a trigger for him. I can totally see how he would "overreact" to this kind of stuff. I've said before (in this very thread probably) that it seems to me that all of his choices and actions now are about protecting and saving his wife in a way he couldn't protect and save his mother. What seems to be challenging, though, is that his wife seems to want the celebrity lifestyle. She wants to go to parties and award ceremonies and lunch in fancy restaurants with celebrity friends and, yes, be photographed (I'm not criticizing her for that, I just think it's obvious she likes the perks that come with being rich and famous and there's nothing wrong with that). I feel like they almost sabotage each other some times, he's in England suing the newspapers for breach of privacy and she's in LA tipping off the paparazzi that she's going hiking with friends. This "catastrophic chase" by paparazzi has now completely overshadowed the award she won. I wonder how much friction it causes between them.
 
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taf2002 said:
Anyone who defends obvious lies about H&M is called an uber. I certainly don't think they can do no wrong. And the withdrawal from public life could have been handled much better.
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Okay, so: what would you say they have they done wrong since they withdrew from royal life?

I do realize you're trying to present a perspective that you feel is underrepresented here, but to me at least it does read like you think Harry and Meghan can do no wrong and whatever they claim is 100% true.
 
MLIS said:
Clearly, the trauma of how his mother died (and the way she was pursued by photographers for decades before) shapes Harry's world view. How could it not? What might seem insignificant or "not that bad" to others would be a trigger for him. I can totally see how he would "overreact" to this kind of stuff. I've said before (in this very thread probably) that it seems to me that all of his choices and actions now are about protecting and saving his wife in a way he couldn't protect and save his mother. What seems to be challenging, though, is that his wife seems to want the celebrity lifestyle. She wants to go to parties and award ceremonies and lunch in fancy restaurants with celebrity friends and, yes, be photographed (I'm not criticizing her for that, I just think it's obvious she likes the perks that come with being rich and famous and there's nothing wrong with that). I feel like they almost sabotage each other some times, he's in England suing the newspapers for breach of privacy and she's in LA tipping off the paparazzi that she's going hiking with friends. I wonder how much friction it causes between them.
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Agree with all of this, and I do feel really bad for Harry particularly. The language of the initial statement does read to me like his thoughts might have been throughout - the potential for danger that never really happened, which is not surprising given both his personal and military history. What I'm not seeing is any sound counsel that would have told him to let it lie, we'll keep working on our security protocols, everyone's safe, let's let Meghan have her moment in the sun.

Meghan's new agency has work to do too. They know what they're doing, but this is never going to end as long as you say above, they seem to be working at odds with each other. Is it significant that Meghan signed with the agency and Harry did not? Maybe, maybe not.

Years ago I read an in-depth interview in the NY Times with Scooter Braun just as his biggest client, Justin Bieber, was starting to emerge from the worst period in his life, along with several other articles at the time. One of the things he talked about was how relentless TMZ had been in publishing every single misstep - so he sat down with them and pleaded the case that this is a messed up kid and this isn't helping. I think he said something like, look if he screws up by all means, but in fairness, cover the good stuff too - and they did.

Maybe it's time for Meghan's high powered agency to sit down with Backgrid and other photo agencies and cut some deals that support Meghan's work but are also considerate of Harry's mental health. In return, his people need to calm down and start choosing their battles more carefully.
 
MsZem said:
Okay, so: what would you say they have they done wrong since they withdrew from royal life?

I do realize you're trying to present a perspective that you feel is underrepresented here, but to me at least it does read like you think Harry and Meghan can do no wrong and whatever they claim is 100% true.
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To start off, they seem to have painted everyone with the same brush. I don't doubt that Meghan had issues re mental health or that some of the family was racist. So I think they acted in belligerent ways when a soft touch would have served them better. And IMO the Oprah interview & the Spare book were their biggest mistakes. If they had followed QEII's motto of Don't Complain, Don't Explain they would have been better off. Any message they wanted to get out there could have been whispered to their friends who would have then leaked them to the press. (Their friends don't seem to understand NDAs.)

The fact that Meghan has cut her father, sister, & brother out of her life has demonized her in the press. I think this is unfair. These people have shown the world how toxic they are. Why should she give them their 15 minutes of attention?

The RF made mistakes too. Meghan was barred from the discussion about H&M's future which probably felt patronizing to her. And they really come off as uncaring. Their closest family (father & brother) seem ok with never seeing them again. I found it shameful & as a slap in the face that Prince Andrew got to wear his royal robe but Harry was barred from his robe or his uniform.
 
Small point, but Harry doesn't have a "royal robe." The robes that were worn were by those who have been named to the Order of the Garter or the Royal Victorian Order, and Harry is neither of those (he probably would have been named to the Order of the Garter in time once Charles became king, if he had stayed a working royal, but he likely won't now). And Harry has no uniform to wear, he is not a serving member of the military and does not hold any honorary positions. He was dressed as all other members of the family were, in a morning suit with medals he has earned. There are questions about whether Andrew should have been allowed to wear his Garter robe (I would say not, but no one asked me), and there are definitely questions about the whole uniform/no uniform thing around Philip and the Queen's funerals (hashed to death a hundred times over), but not for the coronation.

Edit: I'm wrong, and I'll admit it. I should have looked it up before posting, Harry is a member of the Royal Victorian Order but he's a "Knight Commander" not a "Knight Grand Cross," so perhaps no robe?
 
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Ngl, I find Harry's attitude that Meghan needs complete protection from any cameras kind of patronizing. Before Meghan met Harry, she would have been used to walking the red carpet at awards shows and movie premieres. She would have probably chatted with a few favorite celebrity reporters. There is nothing sinister about any of this.
 
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