The Dance Hall, Part 4: To Helsinki & Back -- Seeking Rhumba Magic ...

[thvu]

Sigh, this truly is the Olympic season. The same posters posting the same predictable criticisms they had planned before even watching.

 

[zilam98]

Sigh, this truly is the Olympic season. The same posters posting the same predictable criticisms they had planned before even watching.

same thing with p/c fans when it comes to v/m--that v/m are trashy, cheap, slutty even, and not the "true" artists that p/c are. that's the storyline that p/c fans want to bring to the OG. just because they can't even say anything objective about v/m's ACTUAL skating that they resort to underhanded storylines like that

 

[marbri]

I really wish P/C didn't start with the slowed down beat. I don't like slowed down beats in general, but with Shape Of You in particular, the exciting thing about that song is the speed of the beat. Slowing it down at the very beginning before the pattern has even started makes it look like there's a problem with the audio. Why not start out fast and then slow it down when the pattern begins?

Or do the pattern during the other song? I didn't imagine the elements to be placed as they were to the two songs. Not a fan of Dean's vision here but I don't it matters for the judges.

 

[MarieM]

I really wish P/C didn't start with the slowed down beat. I don't like slowed down beats in general, but with Shape Of You in particular, the exciting thing about that song is the speed of the beat. Slowing it down at the very beginning before the pattern has even started makes it look like there's a problem with the audio. Why not start out fast and then slow it down when the pattern begins?

People really think that kind of music is exiting? I'm getting old.
They should have used WOTE's version IMO.

I'm really hating all those SDs. I will have to adjust to those latin dances that are not latin.
And IMO, all skaters should LOOK and UNDERSTAND what SYTYCD or DWTS really do, because they're trying it without the underlying understanding of what real choreographers DO on those shows.

Back to those SDs.

The russians are a total disaster in it. From Bobrova to Bukin, not talking about Popova who was marked accordingly to her skating skills (considering she has none). They are not even bothering to try to be a little latin. They're only going for the levels, and not really well.

So far, the best SD for me is the brits. Nic&Penny have a brilliant SD.
The Danish pair is coming close. I have a growing liking of H&Donohue too.

P&C ? Well I hate the costume. I hate the music. Too bad because Gabi's killing it. Guillaume not there yet. At least, they're not trying too hard.

 

[thvu]

@zilam98 I’m a fan of both teams, so I hope your comment wasn’t directed at me.

And in general, I believe you’re making a false equivalency. The militancy of the V&M vs D&W days has reappeared, and the V&M side has just picked a different target. It’s almost as bad as the Yuna vs Mao wars that still go on. This is just missing the death threats.

 

[zilam98]

@zilam98 I’m a fan of both teams, so I hope your comment wasn’t directed at me.

And in general, I believe you’re making a false equivalency. The militancy of the V&M vs D&W days has reappeared, and the V&M side has just picked a different target. It’s almost as bad as the Yuna vs Mao wars that still go on. This is just missing the death threats.

v/m has returned, while d/w hasn't. if d/w returned, all top camps will have 2 other teams to target. at least, i yet have to see derisive, underhanded comments from v/m fans about p/c's new programs, unlike the reverse. so if a v/m fan says cizeron lacks latin feel in his dancing, is it of the same feel as p/c fans deriding v/m as cheap and trashy without even quantifying/qualifying why?

 

[zilam98]

Ya'll need to stop interpreting every mild criticism of P/C as "hate".

those very people who do such need their safe space. they're so fragile that any criticism is being perceived as hate

 

[MarieM]

Both sets of fans are ridiculous so your argument is null and void.

And IMO, both teams have a loooooooot to do to make their SDs work.
V&M were trying way too hard to sell it, rendering it cheap, and even borderlining vulgar (easy considering it's latin stupid boring dances).
P&C have ways to go with him, because he's not feeling latin at all.
Both have wonderfull skating skills, but those SDs are terrible as it is now.

 

[zilam98]

Both sets of fans are ridiculous so your argument is null and void.

And IMO, both teams have a loooooooot to do to make their SDs work.
V&M were trying way too hard to sell it, rendering it cheap, and even borderlining vulgar (easy considering it's latin stupid boring dances).
P&C have ways to go with him, because he's not feeling latin at all.
Both have wonderfull skating skills, but those SDs are terrible as it is now.

where does v/m's SD qualify/quantify as vulgar? i guess i'm not as "enlightened" of a fan as you are

 

[sap5]

People really think that kind of music is exiting?

Maybe I should have said, "the only thing exciting about that song is the fast beat"?

 

[VGThuy]

So after reading all the comments here, I watched P/C’s SD. It has some excellent moments where I really thought Gabriella felt the music. I can see Guillaume feeling it and it’s nice to see him really smile and take a light hearted approach. Facial hair or no, his demeanor here’s makes him read his young age which I felt was refreshing after seasons of angsty FDs and even SDs save for last season’s SD. The loosening of the unison rules for the SBS has really helped P/C because there were times where they were seriously out of synch but they sold it in a way that could be interpreted as intricacy.

Overall, the program itself isn’t a disaster by any means, but it’s not amazing either. I sort expected something more after the music choice announcement, Chris Dean reveal, and then them saying Latin on ice was cliche and cheap which made me think they were going to try to “elevate” the SD in some way but it’s a pretty standard SD. I don’t like their mismatched costumes. He doesn’t have to match her or she doesn’t have to match him completely but I feel they’re dressed for two different programs and he’s taking the male partner not having to dress up for the occasion to a new level with that outfit. At least it’s better than Scott looking like he was wearing loose sweats last season for the SD and FD while Tessa had to be all tiffed out in near skin tight attire.

 

[thvu]

v/m has returned, while d/w hasn't. if d/w returned, all top camps will have 2 other teams to target. at least, i yet have to see derisive, underhanded comments from v/m fans about p/c's new programs, unlike the reverse. so if a v/m fan says cizeron lacks latin feel in his dancing, is it of the same feel as p/c fans deriding v/m as cheap and trashy without even quantifying/qualifying why?

Most of the V&M ubers are Canadian, so their comments are driven by nationalistic fervor. It's not the same. You can try to make the equivalency argument all you want. Yes, both sides can be ridiculous, but you're making the assumption that all the V&M criticisms are being made by P&C ubers. From what I've read, the criticisms of V&M you pointed out are coming from a general audience, fans of both teams, one, or none.

In regards to my post, I was specifically talking about the V&M ubers posting their clearly prepared criticisms of P&C's SD. Regardless of the quality of the program, they would have been the same. While some of the substance may have been valid, the criticisms themselves did not come from a rational place as the animus was clearly nationalistic and/or bordering on the obsessive.

 

[sap5]

Or do the pattern during the other song? I didn't imagine the elements to be placed as they were to the two songs. Not a fan of Dean's vision here but I don't it matters for the judges.

I did imagine the pattern to be to the other song as it's slower, but like you said, it won't matter for the scoring.

I just feel bummed because they use the faster beat for the side by side and twizzles when I really wanted to see them dance that part *together.* They did the same thing with their FD where the presto section is almost entirely used up by their spins. But that might just be me.

 

[zilam98]

​

Most of the V&M ubers are Canadian, so their comments are driven by nationalistic fervor. It's not the same. You can try to make the equivalency argument all you want. Yes, both sides can be ridiculous, but you're making the assumption that all the V&M criticisms are being made by P&C ubers. From what I've read, the criticisms of V&M you pointed out are coming from a general audience, fans of both teams, one, or none.

In regards to my post, I was specifically talking about the V&M ubers posting their clearly prepared criticisms of P&C's SD. Regardless of the quality of the program, they would have been the same. While some of the substance may have been valid, the criticisms themselves did not come from a rational place as the animus was clearly nationalistic and/or bordering on the obsessive.

i'm not canadian myself so there you go. i guess the most active v/m fans here in the forums are canadians? whereas p/c fans are "global"?

so, only v/m fans are irrational, nationalistic and obsessive? you should see how p/c fans behave on youtube videos. so someone saying v/m are cheap, trashy, slutty are rational?

 

[wickedwitch]

I know Guillaume typically is thought as the stronger partner, but both last season and especially this one in the SD, it's been Gabi who has really shined. He doesn't have her versatility. She does a very good job with the Latin rhythms, and as of now, he just doesn't. Hopefully, with time, his expression will improve.

 

[marbri]

Most of the V&M ubers are Canadian, so their comments are driven by nationalistic fervor. It's not the same. You can try to make the equivalency argument all you want. Yes, both sides can be ridiculous, but you're making the assumption that all the V&M criticisms are being made by P&C ubers. From what I've read, the criticisms of V&M you pointed out are coming from a general audience, fans of both teams, one, or none.

In regards to my post, I was specifically talking about the V&M ubers posting their clearly prepared criticisms of P&C's SD. Regardless of the quality of the program, they would have been the same. While some of the substance may have been valid, the criticisms themselves did not come from a rational place as the animus was clearly nationalistic and/or bordering on the obsessive.

You know I usually ignore the pissing contest between which fans are the worst but I would put money on the fact that at lest 40% of those V/M ubers you detest so much in the V/M thread are not Canadian. So as a Canadian I'd really appreciate it if you could just fcuk off with that bullshit.

 

[chantilly]

Not all V and M Uber's are Canadian so....
And not all fans of both teams are ridiculous.
Personally my general impression is that the worst of the Uber's of V and M are irrational and the worst of the P and C fans are condescending and smug.
They each are obnoxious.
There have actually been lots of fans of both teams offering rational criticisms of V and M's SD and P and C's SD.

 

[marbri]

I know Guillaume typically is thought as the stronger partner, but both last season and especially this one in the SD, it's been Gabi who has really shined. He doesn't have her versatility. She does a very good job with the Latin rhythms, and as of now, he just doesn't. Hopefully, with time, his expression will improve.

That is my conclusion as well after watching this SD. She seems off ice to have a really goofy/fun character that I don't think she gets to play with enough and now think it's maybe because Guillaume has stronger feelings about what he wants to show?

 

[thvu]

Not all V and M Uber's are Canadian so....
And not all fans of both teams are ridiculous.
Personally my general impression is that the worst of the Uber's of V and M are irrational and the worst of the P and C fans are condescending and smug.
They each are obnoxious.
There have actually been lots of fans of both teams offering rational criticisms of V and M's SD and P and C's SD.

I wasn’t trying to speak in such a general sense. I agree with your post completely.

 

[zilam98]

yeah, but i see more derision from p/c fans on ANY of v/m's work than the opposite, bordering on disrespect to the team

 

[thvu]

so, only v/m fans are irrational, nationalistic and obsessive? you should see how p/c fans behave on youtube videos. so someone saying v/m are cheap, trashy, slutty are rational?

Where did I say this? My post was just about the few posters making the same predictable comments. Everything else is your own extrapolation.

 

[angi]

Well this thread escalated quickly.

 

[zilam98]

Where did I say this? My post was just about the few posters making the same predictable comments. Everything else is your own extrapolation.

"In regards to my post, I was specifically talking about the V&M ubers posting their clearly prepared criticisms of P&C's SD. Regardless of the quality of the program, they would have been the same. While some of the substance may have been valid, the criticisms themselves did not come from a rational place as the animus was clearly nationalistic and/or bordering on the obsessive."

again, per your EQUIVALENCY as your favorite term, if a v/m fan says cizeron's dancing is not latin enough, then that fan is irrational/obsessive/nationalistic? by the same token, what about p/c fans when they criticize v/m's current work as cheap, slutty, trashy? just because they're p/c fans and not v/m ubers, those comments are rational and not nationalistic or obsessive?

 

[double runner]

Whoa this thread went down the toilet, real quick.

As I watch these SDs, I have come to the conclusion that the ISU should stop with these, loose, rhythm requirements and just name one specific dance to interpret. Stop with the umbrella rhythms like hip hop or Latin and make the teams interpret a definitive style like a tango or a jive-that's it. People will argue that it will take the originality of the teams but that's what the FD is for. These umbrella genres are causing such a discrepancy that short of the pattern, we're basically getting a short FD and a longer FD.

 

[Golden1]

Well, I'm a German v/m fan and when I was at a skating event in Zurich I met v/m fans from all over Europe who flew/drove to Switzerland only to see v/m, so there are a lot of fans of them who can't be nationalistic because they simply aren't Canadian. I find this kind of generalization totally offensive.

 

[chapis]

So, what rhythms are using P/C?, rhumba and what else?

 

[marbri]

I think Shape of You is meant to be samba?

 

[MarieM]

As I watch these SDs, I have come to the conclusion that the ISU should stop with these, loose, rhythm requirements and just name one specific dance to interpret. Stop with the umbrella rhythms like hip hop or Latin and make the teams interpret a definitive style like a tango or a jive-that's it. People will argue that it will take the originality of the teams but that's what the FD is for. These umbrella genres are causing such a discrepancy that short of the pattern, we're basically getting a short FD and a longer FD.

THIS. Or only do this once in a while.
It's NOT working. It's ugly most of the time because those teams do not have real choreographers and can't do it justice with all those stupid requirements. Do it on one rythm will help them build something that has a meaning and will be true to said rythm.
That's why I love Nic&Penny's SD so much.

 

[VGThuy]

I can’t help but think that P/C must have really not wanted to skate to actual Latin music because there’s no real reason they had to use Ed Sheeran for this program. It feels a bit safe to me for them to choose more contemporary music rather than branch out and tackle the Latin theme full on.

 

[chapis]

I can’t help but think that P/C must have really not wanted to skate to actual Latin music because there’s no real reason they had to use Ed Sheeran for this program. It feels a bit safe to me for them to choose more contemporary music rather than branch out and tackle the Latin theme full on.

in fact apparently it was Dean who chose the music.