The Dance Hall, Part 4: To Helsinki & Back -- Seeking Rhumba Magic ...

Correcting myself a bit from earlier. We will see Wang & Liu before Cup of China because they are also scheduled for Finlandia. I think it is great that China is sending them out for competition. They only just squeaked in to the top 24 SB list last season during World Team Trophy at the last minute. And the only reason they were ever in danger of missing a guaranteed berth on the GP was because W&L hadn't been sent to any Challenger events to maintain their World Standing with other teams whom they had defeated throughout the season.
 
Is it me or is there an inflation of accrobatics this year in the programs ? We're speaking dance here and not circus.
For me, in most instances, accrobatic lifts' general purpose is to hide poor choregraphy or lack of skating skills or both.

Why is it that so many teams this year have packed their programs with accrobatic lifts that bring nothing to their dance at best or kill the dance at worst ? Do they think it will bring them extra points for the OG ?

Some of those lifts are ok and well executed (V/M FD), some are botched, some are ugly (G/P FD), some are outright tacky (all crotch lifts should be forbiden) but most of them don't bring anything to the dance or distract from the dance and in all cases are simply too much.

I like MR. I think it suits V/M style and strength. Tessa's dress (like Gabriella's and Kaitleen's) is perfect (form, colour,style for their FD) but there is too much accrobatics.
No matter what they do I usually love G/P but not this time. Their FD this year doesn't work for me. Their lifts are ugly and do not work with their program. Besides those lifts are not necessary. I like the theme they chose and their costumes though as always.

On the other hand I love W/P, H/D, FB/S and of course P/C lifts. I hope the Shibs won't fall into the accrobatic inflation cauldron. They really don't need that.

Also to answer to the P/C detractors. It is not because it looks simple that it is easy and low and fast ground lifts are just as difficult and risky than the more spectacular higher lifts.
 
EYGH said:
Also to answer to the P/C detractors. It is not because it looks simple that it is easy and low and fast ground lifts are just as difficult and risky than the more spectacular higher lifts.
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Yeah right. We are all blind and stupid.
 
Just watched C/B and M/R. I really enjoyed Penny and Nick's short dance and Kana and Chris FD even though once again too many accrobatics in the latter's FD for me.
 
Maddie Sparks said:
I'm fine with "acrobatic" lifts, so long as they fit within the program and match the intensity of the moment.
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I am, too. But I feel like acrobatic lifts really need to be well-executed to work well. Chock/Bates and Davis/White are both teams who could do acrobatic lifts really, really well and smoothly. For them, acrobatic lifts make sense and can be used as highlights.
 
EYGH said:
Is it me or is there an inflation of accrobatics this year in the programs?
Click to expand...

See p. 12-20 of the requirements to earn a Level 4 Dance lift:
https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/ISU 2086-id-requirements-for-technical-rules-2017_18 with notes.pdf

My understanding is that there has been an additional requirement for both last season and this season in order to earn the entrance/exit feature points for the lifts. If you don't do something different there, you can't earn a level 4. So, yes, there are more changes of position/flip outs/flip ins, etc. coming in and out of lifts over the last two seasons than previously. Because it is a requirement.
 
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clairecloutier said:
I am, too. But I feel like acrobatic lifts really need to be well-executed to work well. Chock/Bates and Davis/White are both teams who could do acrobatic lifts really, really well and smoothly. For them, acrobatic lifts make sense and can be used as highlights.
Click to expand...

Those are two teams I would not put on my "do acrobatic lifts really, really well and smoothly" list, but I know the genre sentiment is otherwise.
 
I think Chock/Bates have some of the best executed acrobatic lifts in the field. Both Madison and Evan put equal effort into getting into those difficult positions and they tend to seamlessly enter and exit out of them. They make it look really easy. Some times the lifts are busy and whether they always fit the program or look aesthetically pleasing to you is a different question, but I think they do them well.
 
Speaking of lifts, the new forward-leaning one in Weaver & Poje's FD scares me a bit.

I really liked the one Sales & Wamsteeker had in their FD, which is in a similar direction but with a prettier line.
 
EYGH said:
Is it me or is there an inflation of accrobatics this year in the programs ? We're speaking dance here and not circus.
For me, in most instances, accrobatic lifts' general purpose is to hide poor choregraphy or lack of skating skills or both.

Why is it that so many teams this year have packed their programs with accrobatic lifts that bring nothing to their dance at best or kill the dance at worst ? Do they think it will bring them extra points for the OG ?

Some of those lifts are ok and well executed (V/M FD), some are botched, some are ugly (G/P FD), some are outright tacky (all crotch lifts should be forbiden) but most of them don't bring anything to the dance or distract from the dance and in all cases are simply too much.

I like MR. I think it suits V/M style and strength. Tessa's dress (like Gabriella's and Kaitleen's) is perfect (form, colour,style for their FD) but there is too much accrobatics.
No matter what they do I usually love G/P but not this time. Their FD this year doesn't work for me. Their lifts are ugly and do not work with their program. Besides those lifts are not necessary. I like the theme they chose and their costumes though as always.

On the other hand I love W/P, H/D, FB/S and of course P/C lifts. I hope the Shibs won't fall into the accrobatic inflation cauldron. They really don't need that.

Also to answer to the P/C detractors. It is not because it looks simple that it is easy and low and fast ground lifts are just as difficult and risky than the more spectacular higher lifts.
Click to expand...
Virtue and Moir once did two well done crotch lifts, so it is possible.
 
EYGH said:
Is it me or is there an inflation of accrobatics this year in the programs ?
Click to expand...

I've noticed just the opposite. Some teams have watered down their lifts so much they're barely recognizable as a lift at all. You can watch a JGP dance comp and see a string of sixteen year-olds doing bolder, more difficult lifts than some senior teams who are touted as Olympic medal threats. You gotta wonder....
 
Wasn't there a rule change after 2014 that not only decreased the number of leveled lifts in the FD but also made it so that lifts didn't need to be complicated to get level 4? I think maybe some were tired of seeing the Marina/Igor style of lifts that were criticized back in the day.

If things stay the same, I also think some of those juniors will take it a bit easier in a few years when they made more of a name for themselves and focus on GOE. A lot of the seniors now did pretty complicated lifts when they were younger as well.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
Wasn't there a rule change after 2014 that not only decreased the number of leveled lifts in the FD but also made it so that lifts didn't need to be complicated to get level 4? I think maybe some were tired of seeing the Marina/Igor style of lifts that were criticized back in the day.
Click to expand...

Yes, the required number of lifts in the FD was reduced from 4 to 3 and 7 seconds for a lift vs. 6, and also step sequence requirements loosened. If I recall correctly, there were lots of complaints from different camps regarding the difficultly to produce a good skate with so many restrictions and not really anything to do with Marina/Igor. There were other teams doing acrobatic lifts at the time. Pechalat/Bourzat come immediately to mind. I think these changes have helped.
 
I'm not crazy about the music cuts in either of V/M's programs. Both have a non-cohesive feel to me. I think the issue with the FD could be fairly easily solved by just changing the last 30 seconds or so to give the ending more oomph. (Disclaimer: I am not a big fan of V/M's romantic programs, so the Come What May part does little for me in the first place.) The short dance has no quick fix. They interpret the Latin music as well as almost anybody out there today and are obviously technically excellent, so they still should get good marks. But if they need a margin in the SD to overcome a hypothetical margin for P/C in the FD, I'm not sure if this program can do it.

I do prefer P/C's FD right now. I personally wish that they would explore a larger range of music and movement in their FDs, but if I were a judge, I think I would get lost in the moment during their FD performance and thus not let it affect the marks I gave. And because they haven't displayed the versatility V/M have, I haven't become an uber, which is much better for my mental health.
 
The issue I'm having with V/M's SD right now is that it's "too much." There's so much going on with the costumes and the music cuts that I'm distracted from the actual dancing, which, when I do focus on it, is absolutely amazing. The rhumba section in particular is outstanding. It just feels to me like it's so jammed with stuff that its hard to see everything and appreciate it.
 
I really hope Tessa reconsiders wearing the blue dress for the short dance at least for one competition.
 
sap5 said:
The issue I'm having with V/M's SD right now is that it's "too much." There's so much going on with the costumes and the music cuts that I'm distracted from the actual dancing, which, when I do focus on it, is absolutely amazing. The rhumba section in particular is outstanding. It just feels to me like it's so jammed with stuff that its hard to see everything and appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I think this is fair. I love the first music cut, but do agree the second cut into Santana needs to be smoother. I do think though part of it has to do with the rhythm requirements.
I think the makeup needs to be toned down.
I'm ok with Scott's costume. And I like Tessa's in motion.
I think for me the over riding issue was the expression was over the top.
But I expect they will develop that more organically throughout the season.
As an actor it's always been the lesson you can take it down way easier then bring it up.
Even the Prince SD developed throughout the season.
It didn't start the way it finished.
 
chapis said:
I really hope Tessa reconsiders wearing the blue dress for the short dance at least for one competition.
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I don't. I LOVE her SD dress. But I did really like how the blue dress showed off her beautiful movement when she wore it to practice the FD so I would kind of like to see something like that in red for MR. I understand the dress she went with but the sleeves on the other dress really highlighted her beautiful arms and upper body.
 
marbri said:
I don't. I LOVE her SD dress. But I did really like how the blue dress showed off her beautiful movement when she wore it to practice the FD so I would kind of like to see something like that in red for MR. I understand the dress she went with but the sleeves on the other dress really highlighted her beautiful arms and upper body.
Click to expand...
:cheer2:
 
sap5 said:
The issue I'm having with V/M's SD right now is that it's "too much." It just feels to me like it's so jammed with stuff that its hard to see everything and appreciate it.
Click to expand...

My initial impression--and I've only watched it once--is that it is too busy. I do think streamlining would give it stronger highlights. And I do expect the top dances to evolve throughout the season.

Cappellini & Lanotte are on the list for Cup of Nice! So hopefully we will really see them this time.

Also, Tobias & Tkachenko are signed up for the Minsk Challenger so we should see them there before NHK.
 
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