The Dance Hall 8: Join the Maskerade 2020-2021

[RoseRed]

Which L/L are we talking about? The French L/L won't be there but the Canadian L/L will. I don't see either of them as battling for the 9-10 spot, though, so I guess it doesn't matter, lol.

Don't forget there are the Poles who always seem to place higher than anyone else believes they should. FSU will lose its collective mind if they beat any of the following: FB/S, H/B, F/G, Spain, Z/G, and probably also W/L and L/L.

Hard to say how the others will stack up.

The Canadian L/L. I call the French team L/LG, since his last name is Le Gac.

I don't think L/L are a favourite for the 9-10 spots, but just looking at SB scores from last season (since we don't have much from this year), saying they are in the mix is pretty reasonable:

Wang/Liu - 196.75 (4CCs)
Fear/Gibson - 195.35 (SCI)
Hurtado/Khaliavin - 193.47 (Challenger)
Lajoie/Lagha - 192.11 (4CCs)
Smart/Diaz - 191.01 (SA)
Zagorski/Guerreiro - 188.03 (Euros)

Obviously it's a new season, and there are a lot of different factors in play. W/L were without their Montreal coaches for months and months. F/G and S/D haven't competed at all as far as I know. We don't know which Spanish team will go, and Sara Hurtado had a major injury earlier in the year that kept her off the ice for quite a while IIRC. Z/G had a more normal competitive season, but they've also dealt with illness and injury (?). L/L haven't competed either, outside of the virtual Challenge.

And who knows about H/B and FB/S even. H/B's SB from last year was 194.77 at Skate Canada. But they've looked stronger this year, with a great FD and have competed, so I see them as ahead. FB/S had the best SB score with 201.00, but it was from a challenger and they haven't competed in longer than most. But they did beat all of W/L, H/B, S/D, and Z/G last season on the GP, and scored 197.53 at SA. And in Challengers, they beat H/B, W/L, F/G, L/L and S/D. So I do see them as most likely a little ahead.

Based on last season, you'd say W/L and F/G are the favourites for those last two top ten spots. But L/L improved a lot over the course of last season and did very well at 4CCs. You can't perfectly compare across competition (and not everyone was clean, etc), but looking at Euros and 4CCs 2020 since they were around the same time:

Wang/Liu - 196.75
Fear/Gibson - 192.34
Lajoie/Lagha - 192.11
Hawayek/Baker - 188.49
Zagorski/Guerreiro - 188.03
Hurtado/Khaliavin - 185.84
Smart/Diaz - 183.12
Kaliszek/Spodyriev - 180.26

Just based on the info we do have, I wouldn't be overly surprised if they ended up 10th. So I consider them in the mix. It's not my prediction though.

 

[Colonel Green]

Lilah's gotta help her sister get to the Olympics.

 

[Ka3sha]

Kazakova/Reviya are not included in the 2021 Worlds entry list of 33 teams that was published today (so I assume they do not feel ready to compete this season: http://www.isuresults.com/events/wc2021_IceDance.htm

Comment from Geo Federation

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[mjb52]

So disappointed for them, hope they come back strong next year!

 

[yurokis40]

Hoping for G&P first world medal given how this season has gone I say they have a fighting chance.
Podium 1 Russian 1 American and 1 Canadian my guess S&K, C&B,and G&P, i know alot of people will be up in arms that I did not include Hubbell and Donahue, my theory they were losing momentum with international judges last year and will have the disadvantage of debuting 2 new programs in front of an international panel. The other three are coming in with familiar and well trained programs from last year. S&K went back to there free dance from last year. I like Stepanova and Bukin but I agree with the skating lesson their Justin Timberlake free is not podium material in my book they will also be skating the rd in the penultimate group not the final group like the others already a disadvantage.

 

[mjb52]

Thought this was a good interview with Romain Hagenauer, that touched on some of the issues with choosing music (and other things) for ice dance: https://skating-to-music.blog/2021/...ith-a-frame-interview-with-romain-haguenauer/

 

[Sylvia]

Hurtado/Khaliavin are going to Worlds: https://twitter.com/fedhielo/status/1368642025529225221

ETA a translated comment by Pedro Lamelas below the original tweet:
"The decision has been made based on the total score of the programs carried out. Apparently Smart & Díaz failed, especially in rhythmic dance. The problem is that Hurtado & Jalyavin are not, unsurprisingly, in the best of forms either..."

Apparently the videos will be made public tomorrow: https://twitter.com/Hieloespanol/status/1368617655876415492

 

[Colonel Green]

Hurtado/Khaliavin are going to Worlds: https://twitter.com/fedhielo/status/1368642025529225221

I admit I'm kind of shocked by that, but if they out-performed their rivals despite not having nearly as much training time, more power to them.

 

[Wyliefan]

Did not expect that at all! But I'm happy for H/K and hope they have the skate of their life.

 

[Dobre]

And this is why you have to have a competition/skate off.

Thanks, Sylvia. Looking forward to seeing the performances, rough or not. I feel so completely ??? about what may happen around spots 9 & 10.

 

[Orm Irian]

Thought this was a good interview with Romain Hagenauer, that touched on some of the issues with choosing music (and other things) for ice dance: https://skating-to-music.blog/2021/...ith-a-frame-interview-with-romain-haguenauer/

Thank you for the link, that was a really fascinating read!

 

[Braulio]

As much as I like both couples and always been more in the H/K side but I think this is a wrong call given her 'speedy' recovery and rushing back to the ice, was it enough for her to heal? what if another accident happens? what if a (knocking on wood) re-injury? this could be career ending incident. Coming to this 'do or die' skateoff wasn't that fair, but well is just the cherry on top of the always drama/conspiracy tha surounds spanish ice dance after Sara/Adrian breakup in 2016

Considering the bad track of the twizzles with Sara I am terrified thinking about the rhythm dance

The chances of a top 10 for Spain and two spots for the Olympics are even less now IMO

 

[aka_gerbil]

I still wonder if S/D have their own undisclosed injuries/training issues that may have triggered the skate off.

 

[Ka3sha]

Apparently the videos will be made public tomorrow: https://twitter.com/Hieloespanol/status/1368617655876415492

S/D RD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssrfYqI50lg
H/K RD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSd_28rTnd4
S/D FD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3DoKEEZtBU
H/K FD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkz8EIGDjQE

 

[marbri]

Well good luck to Spain and H/K because having just watched those videos S/D have vastly superior programs. Watching H/K's programs is like being stuck in an elevator watching paint dry. Could get lost in the shuffle at worlds to more interesting programs.

so according to that twitter account the scores were:
H/K : 67.17 + 108.27 = 175.43
S/D : 62.52 + 106.72 = 169.24

 

[taz'smum]

Well good luck to Spain and H/K because having just watched those videos S/D have vastly superior programs. Watching H/K's programs is like being stuck in an elevator watching paint dry. Could get lost in the shuffle at worlds to more interesting programs.

so according to that twitter account the scores were:
H/K : 67.17 + 108.27 = 175.43
S/D : 62.52 + 106.72 = 169.24

Despite HK having elevator music, it was well skated given her time off for injury/YKW.

Provided Sara hangs onto the twizzles, they have a shot at the top 10 and 2 spots for Spain in the Olympics.
Though with the new rules, if I understand correctly, even if HK earn 2 spots this worlds, S/D will still have to qualify the 2nd Olympic spot at Nebelhorn
This is quite tough, as these new rules were aimed at preventing low level teams from qualifying for the Olympics, not aimed at teams like S/D who are worthy of an Olympic spot.

Both teams really deserve to be at the Olympics IMHO!

I really like S/D's FD music, I'd really like to see that program skated fully bedded in!

 

[Ka3sha]

I enjoy watching both teams, but if both are clean I'd choose H/K simple because I think they are stronger skaters, but at the same time Olivia and Adria usually have interesting and entertaining programs. There's no question that both teams deserve to get to the Olympics and it's a pity they can't get two spots (still believe their best shot was at 2018 Worlds in Milano).

Given Sara's injury and last season's results I was sure S/D would go to Worlds this year, but looking at those videos - they must have had some problems as well. Either with injuries/health, either with lack of motivation, I don't know. But they look heavy and undertrained.

Well, best of luck to Sara and Kirill in Stockholm

 

[mjb52]

It's really a shame bc I feel like S & D would have been well positioned to get two spots for this year at their home worlds and then both teams could have gone!

 

[Colonel Green]

Though with the new rules, if I understand correctly, even if HK earn 2 spots this worlds, S/D will still have to qualify the 2nd Olympic spot at Nebelhorn
This is quite tough, as these new rules were aimed at preventing low level teams from qualifying for the Olympics, not aimed at teams like S/D who are worthy of an Olympic spot.

While flukes can happen, for S/D I don’t think that requirement would be anything more than a box to tick. They wouldn’t have a problem qualifying one of those spots if given the opportunity.

 

[taz'smum]

While flukes can happen, for S/D I don’t think that requirement would be anything more than a box to tick. They wouldn’t have a problem qualifying one of those spots if given the opportunity.

Of course it should be easy for them to qualify, I just meant that it would be tough that they would have to be put through the unnecessary stress of such a competition.

 

[Bigbird]

Of course it should be easy for them to qualify, I just meant that it would be tough that they would have to be put through the unnecessary stress of such a competition.

SD's programs are a tribute to their choreographer's genius.

It's a pity that simplicity and good GOE's aren't really separated in the sport.

 

[Wyliefan]

Who'd have thought that both Sara and Olivia would mess up their twizzles! Both teams must have been sweating the results.

S/D probably would have been better off holding on to their old FD, bonkers as it was. This one was better, but they weren't used to it and it showed.

 

[litenkyckling]

I feel like I'm the only person who actually doesn't mind H/Ks FD - I thought performance wise it was quite impactful at Europeans last year! I don't really have an opinion on who goes - I don't want Sara to risk injury though but if she feels healthy enough to go then fair enough - she's an adult and can make these decisions for herself. I wonder why S/D opted for a new FD - it's fine but her in the same costume just made me think for one competition wouldn't you just keep it? (Like say, F/G have kept theirs)

One thought I did have though was that Kazakova/Reviya really started a trend with handstands in the choreographic steps!

 

[Wyliefan]

I feel like I'm the only person who actually doesn't mind H/Ks FD - I thought performance wise it was quite impactful at Europeans last year!

No, you're not the only one. I like it too. It's understated -- which we're not really used to in ice dance! -- but very elegant.

 

[Cherub721]

It was a good call to do the skate off. Neither team has competed all season, and if they were going to let S&D submit a video, it's only right that H&K could too. They were wrong to wait until after the Worlds deadline. That will cause drama and conspiracies. I also assume that now if S&D have to be withdrawn so the "alternates" H&K can skate, then if H&K have a last minute injury or positive test, they are out with no replacement. I don't think they can make S&D alternates again. It was stupid to wait this long to decide, and unfair to both teams.

I haven't watched yet but going by the scores it makes sense to send H&K. The RD is the more important score. Either Spanish team would draw in the penultimate group and they need to have a good RD to keep themselves in that flight for the FD (with two Canadian teams, Russia #3 and US #3 all fighting to move up to that flight). They need to beat the British, Chinese, and Polish teams + 1 of CAN/RUS/US to keep top 10.

 

[litenkyckling]

I haven't watched yet but going by the scores it makes sense to send H&K. The RD is the more important score.

Although both teams had twizzle issues, S/D's Finnstep was a mess - possibly the worst they've performed it in competition ever unfortunately.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

No, you're not the only one. I like it too. It's understated -- which we're not really used to in ice dance! -- but very elegant.

Me three. I never saw it performed to its full potential, but I loved the elegant subtlety. It actually was one of my favorite FD’s last season!

 

[Colonel Green]

Obviously there were RD errors for both teams, in particular, but those kinds of scores will not cut it for the top ten at Worlds; and it’s especially challenging considering this was domestic judging. H/K have a few more weeks to prepare, but that’s not a lot of time in the grand scheme.

 

[MsZem]

Considering the bad track of the twizzles with Sara I am terrified thinking about the rhythm dance

The chances of a top 10 for Spain and two spots for the Olympics are even less now IMO

Have Smart/Diaz ever finished ahead of Hurtado/Khaliavin in international competition? IIRC H/K generally finish ahead in direct competition (outside of Spanish Nationals). Given that neither team has competed since 2020 Euros, it seems reasonable enough to send the one with the stronger international record to Worlds and hope for the best

 

[Sylvia]

I also assume that now if S&D have to be withdrawn so the "alternates" H&K can skate, then if H&K have a last minute injury or positive test, they are out with no replacement. I don't think they can make S&D alternates again.

Smart/Diaz are listed as alternates to Hurtado/Khaliavin now: http://www.isuresults.com/events/wc2021_IceDance.htm

Spanish federation's press release today (March 8):

Sara Hurtado & Kirill Jalyavin representarán a España en el Mundial de Estocolmo - Real Federación Española Deportes de Hielo

Sara Hurtado y Kirill Jalyavin estarán en Estocolmo (Suecia) para disputar el Mundial de Patinaje Artístico 2021 (22-28 de marzo), después de ser la pareja de

www.rfedh.es