The Dance Hall 8: Join the Maskerade 2020-2021

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,918
I am tired of this weird meme that S/K's programs are similar to P/C's. Yes, I know it is just largely that one person repeating it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over for the most part, but as with many things that one obsessed person says repeatedly, I feel like other people are picking it up. Gabriella even mentioned it (not in a rude way or anything) in her interview. I just don't see it at all. In fact, the very reason I am capable of liking both teams is in part b/c to me they do completely different things, both of which I like (for the most part, I obviously wasn't a big fan of P/C's material last year), although overall I prefer S/K.
I'm not a huge fan of S/K's FD but I agree with that any notion that they are copying P/C in that program or anything else is really quite absurd.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,801
I was surprised by Wang/Liu's placement at Worlds, because they had a really successful season last year. They were 9th on last year's season's-best list, between FB/S and Fear/Gibson. And they were just off the podium in 4th at 2 events last year (4CCs and CoC). Given that momentum, I was surprised to see them to see them back down in 13th at Worlds.
Only non-European team in the battle. Skating in Europe. W&L were a long shot among that group of teams. But they put themselves into it last year. (Not that Hawayek & Baker didn't help them out a ton at 4CCs; however W&L had one or two other good finishes last season that served them well. I'm afraid I don't remember the specifics. Feel like Kaliszek & Spodyriev were in one of them, and W&L did split results with K&S at Worlds). Anyway, while I don't think W&L's result at Worlds was a surprise, I also don't think it would be a surprise if they placed better on non-European soil next year.

And that is without taking into account the fact that said non-European soil will also be home soil in China. W&L are not as fast as some of the teams they are waging battle with. But they have a wonderful team dynamic & are many times more polished than the younger teams below this current fighting-for-the-top-ten group.

I am also curious whether W&L will continue.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,801
Feeling guilty for not referencing Wang & Liu's breakthrough skates more specifically from last season. (Not their fault. The stress from last year wreaked havoc on my skating-factoid memory). Hence, I looked the important stuff up:

In addition to defeating Hawayek & Baker (Plus Lajoie & Lagha, Soucisse & Firus, Harris & Chan, et. al) in both portions of competition at 4CCs in Korea. . .

Wang & Liu also defeated Hawayek & Baker in both portions of competition at Cup of China. (H&B cracked under the pressure in the free there, but I'm not remembering that being the case in the RD? Albeit the event was in China. Let's face it. Regardless, W&L's Chaplin RD is fab and better than a good many programs that placed above it at Worlds).

Then W&L went on to split results with Kaliszek & Spodyriev at Mentor Torun (K&S's home turf in Poland). K&S won the event, but W&L bested them in RD.

W&L also defeated a trio of top young teams at NHK trophy, including Carreira & Ponomarenko who had finished ahead of W&L, Smart & Diaz, and Fear & Gibson early in the season at Nebelhorn. And at NHK, W&L also finished ahead of Shevchenko & Eremenko and McNamara & Carpenter. (Gosh, that was a great field).
 

Ka3sha

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,779
Madison Hubbell posted on her Instagram that they have been working on a new program somewhere, then Zach used geolocation Westbrook, Connecticut.


Any ideas on who could be their new choreographer?
 

mjb52

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,769
I'm thinking a lot of ice dancers might seek outside expertise for the RD if they are considering going the hip-hop route, as many ice dancers looked to experienced tango dancers for that RD, so that could be another option too. For blues/swing, they might be more confident sticking with the choreographers they already use. Pure speculation from me obviously.
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,536
Hey where were you during Worlds? I always look forward to you telling me who can’t skate! :p
Sorry, I watched but was unimpressed. None of those teams actually made any impact. Only Tiff&Jon can skate but are sloted behind teams that can't skate.
OTOH, Chock&Bates & Hubbel/Donohue were robbed in the RD.
Actually was very happy for G&P whose FD was the only one I did like on the night.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,656
Question though, where does SB fall within these hunger games?They seem to have stagnated. Nothing at this point can be done about her skating so choreography will not help. Will they be retiring after the Beijing OGs?

What will become of Z/G retirement as well? Are there any up and comers?

Just asking..
 

Peepsquick

Well-Known Member
Messages
406
Question though, where does SB fall within these hunger games?They seem to have stagnated. Nothing at this point can be done about her skating so choreography will not help. Will they be retiring after the Beijing OGs?

What will become of Z/G retirement as well? Are there any up and comers?

Just asking..
yes, I was puzzled back during Worlds in Saitama, to hear Tanith White talk about S/B as an upcoming young ice dance team :confused:.
They were P/C successful rivals in junior and they are just about the same age (I checked). What happened? Why did the RusFed decide to back another, newer ice dance couple? Anybody knows?
 

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
Messages
5,211
Because S&B lack speed and edges? That S&B are ever in the medal conversations is boggling to me.

It’s not even like Stepanova is out there channeling Usova by giving us beautiful lines with amazing toe point. She’s more Belbin, giving us legs with awkward bends and feet (but at least without the O face.)
 

mjb52

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,769
I had all these thoughts on the free dance and now I can't really remember any of them. Tbh, even though I whined a little about the press conference, I would have had Hubbell and Donohue in second. I really liked the 9-20 teams better than the 6-8 teams for the most part. Thought Galyavieva and Thauron were undermarked, although my knowledge of the technical side of ice dancing is pretty negligible. Surprised by how displeased a lot of the teams were with their marks but admired their not doing the "just so happy to be here" thing and having standards and expectations. Hurtado/Khalyavin looked really crisp and I was impressed with how far they came in such a short time just from the videotaped contest for the spot.

With the lower ranked teams, I was trying to figure out what made them not as good as the higher ranked ones. It seemed like part of it was building to the highlights of the program sort of like singles skaters stalking their jumps? Just less intricacy throughout the program for the most part. That's where I thought G/T were undermarked, their program felt more powerful and intricate than the teams surrounding them. For some reason, the first part of S/B's program felt like it was to different music even though I don't think it actually was - it's just been so long since I've seen it now that I guess I didn't remember what it sounded like?

Obviously very happy with the result. I watched S/K's program with different commentary b/c I'm weird like that, so I saw the BBC, NBC, and CBC versions. The BBC commentator really enjoyed the whole dance event, it was sort of fascinating to see how much he liked it after some of the complaining here. He seemed almost dreamy about it. I think we are headed toward a really interesting Olympic season.
 
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MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,536
It’s good to know that some things never change. :lol:
To be frank, my attention was grabbed with pairs and men. If you ask me, the first program that pops to my mind in Nathan Chen FP. The second one is the pairs event.

Ice dance looked and felt boring. Like a known meal you're having a fourth time around. And it wasn't skated well either.
Next year is going to be better. It has to.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,656
I had all these thoughts on the free dance and now I can't really remember any of them. Tbh, even though I whined a little about the press conference, I would have had Hubbell and Donohue in second. I really liked the 10-20 teams better than the 6-9 teams for the most part. Thought Galyavieva and Thauron were undermarked, although my knowledge of the technical side of ice dancing is pretty negligible. Surprised by how displeased a lot of the teams were with their marks but admired their not doing the "just so happy to be here" thing and having standards and expectations. Hurtado/Khalyavin looked really crisp and I was impressed with how far they came in such a short time just from the videotaped contest for the spot.

With the lower ranked teams, I was trying to figure out what made them not as good as the higher ranked ones. It seemed like part of it was building to the highlights of the program sort of like singles skaters stalking their jumps? Just less intricacy throughout the program for the most part. That's where I thought G/T were undermarked, their program felt more powerful and intricate than the teams surrounding them. For some reason, the first part of S/B's program felt like it was to different music even though I don't think it actually was - it's just been so long since I've seen it now that I guess I didn't remember what it sounded like?

Obviously very happy with the result. I watched S/K's program with different commentary b/c I'm weird like that, so I saw the BBC, NBC, and CBC versions. The BBC commentator really enjoyed the whole dance event, it was sort of fascinating to see how much he liked it after some of the complaining here. He seemed almost dreamy about it. I think we are headed toward a really interesting Olympic season.
I have to admit I really liked the programs by FB/S. Love the innovation! Love the way the IAM ladies dance from their finger tips to their toes. There were some good moments.

On to next season indeed. It's maybe a done deal that S/D will not get the spot for Beijing but I hope they have great programs as well.
 

Peepsquick

Well-Known Member
Messages
406
Because S&B lack speed and edges? That S&B are ever in the medal conversations is boggling to me.

It’s not even like Stepanova is out there channeling Usova by giving us beautiful lines with amazing toe point. She’s more Belbin, giving us legs with awkward bends and feet (but at least without the O face.)
Yes , it is also what I think but how do you explain them being on top as juniors then? It must have given them the wrong signal!
 

mjb52

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,769
Oh, I did forget to say how much I liked the Rio program. Completely out there, in a good way. Hawayek/Baker just completely took me aback the first time I saw it, then I think I built up my expectations too much for the second time after thinking about the program, and finally at Worlds it was just right. A whole three little bears situation! :)
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,656
Yes , it is also what I think but how do you explain them being on top as juniors then? It must have given them the wrong signal!
It must be so very confusing for them. I cannot remember if it was Navka or Besti saying they should also be on the podium. I wonder if they feel at times like window dressing. Can they really teach them to skate or has that ship sailed?
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,432
I remember in an interview, Step herself didn't quite understand how P/C all of a sudden became unbeatable against them when they beat them at juniors consistently. This was back in like 2017.
 

her grace

standing with Mariah
Messages
4,045
Yes , it is also what I think but how do you explain them being on top as juniors then? It must have given them the wrong signal!

Juniors is a different league. What a lot of great Junior teams have going for them is confidence. They really perform and they own the ice (in comparison to their junior peers). Russian juniors have historically been fantastic at showing up and commanding attention. A lot of great junior teams then don't stand out when they get to Seniors, either because their confidence diminishes or because all the greats also have that panache combined with maturity.

And it's not like S/B are terrible dancers. They have good sense of rhythm and the performance quality is high. Her edge quality could be improved, but it's not bottom of the barrel. It's just not truly elite in comparison to the very top teams.
 

Peepsquick

Well-Known Member
Messages
406
I remember in an interview, Step herself didn't quite understand how P/C all of a sudden became unbeatable against them when they beat them at juniors consistently. This was back in like 2017.
What happened is that Gabi and Guillaume at Gadbois had the opportunity to practice full time and could subsequently really blossom. They had lots of potential before (zhulin said that they had struck him as really special) but didn't have the environment and practice time that Gadbois and its team have been providing.
 

Peepsquick

Well-Known Member
Messages
406
Juniors is a different league. What a lot of great Junior teams have going for them is confidence. They really perform and they own the ice (in comparison to their junior peers). Russian juniors have historically been fantastic at showing up and commanding attention. A lot of great junior teams then don't stand out when they get to Seniors, either because their confidence diminishes or because all the greats also have that panache combined with maturity.

And it's not like S/B are terrible dancers. They have good sense of rhythm and the performance quality is high. Her edge quality could be improved, but it's not bottom of the barrel. It's just not truly elite in comparison to the very top teams.
Yes, they are striking and great performers.
 

litenkyckling

Active Member
Messages
78
What happened is that Gabi and Guillaume at Gadbois had the opportunity to practice full time and could subsequently really blossom. They had lots of potential before (zhulin said that they had struck him as really special) but didn't have the environment and practice time that Gadbois and its team have been providing.
I think they also benefitted from the fact that they became the French #1 in their second senior season - having lots of opportunities to get out and attend championships as their country's #1 probably gave them a lot of confidence and forced them to perform like a top team very quickly.

S/B are so frustrating because they have so many qualities that other teams would kill for - their presence is quite demanding, they have great chemistry and legs for days! But ultimately they should have moved to a better coaching team in like 2015. As much as I don't personally like him, imagine what Zhulin could've done for her SS?
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,380
Question though, where does SB fall within these hunger games?They seem to have stagnated. Nothing at this point can be done about her skating so choreography will not help. Will they be retiring after the Beijing OGs?
I'd rate Stepanova/Bukin as easily the most likely of the current top teams to do at least one season beyond the Olympic year, to try for that World medal that has kept eluding them.
What will become of Z/G retirement as well? Are there any up and comers?
Russia has a whole bunch of teams queuing up behind the current top three. It's more a question of whether one of them will be able to consolidate support of if it'll be an ongoing battle for supremacy.
 

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