The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

blancanieves

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770
Hubbell and Donahue have a huge opportunity to do an FD that matches the public mood. I always thought James/Cipres’ Sound of Silence was partially so successful because it matched the ominous feeling so many people had that year. If H/D can come up with something both sad and hopeful, nothing as literal as Shallow, it would help them a lot.
I don't think that trying to speak for the collective should be the priority. After what happened with R&J and Shallow, I think that looking inward is needed more. Remembering why and how they are a unique team and bringing that out again in a program.
 

muffinplus

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3,660
Hubbell and Donahue have a huge opportunity to do an FD that matches the public mood. I always thought James/Cipres’ Sound of Silence was partially so successful because it matched the ominous feeling so many people had that year. If H/D can come up with something both sad and hopeful, nothing as literal as Shallow, it would help them a lot.
What ominous feeling did people have that year?
 

clairecloutier

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10,519
I'm not sure that simply looking inward is entirely the answer for Hubbell/Donohue. Both of last year's programs meant something to them personally. They said as much in multiple interviews. The programs resonated with them personally on some level.

The problem, as I perceive it, is that other people didn't like the programs. Other people didn't like the music, first of all. And that predisposed them to not like the programs. There were many other complaints as well, about costumes, choreography, technique, their personalities, their looks, whether they can play characters, what have you. But I think the most basic problem was that people didn't like their music and themes.

Personally I feel like the best course of action would be to find some powerful and evocative music that doesn't necessarily have a built-in theme or character, but that is appealing on a wider scale, and make it their own and sort of return to the basics in that way. They did this in the past with their Tron and Hungarian Rhapsody FDs, and it worked well.
 

PRlady

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34,906
What ominous feeling did people have that year?
You’re not American, right? It was after Trump’s election, that Euros. Not everybody was depressed and worried but a lot of people were, including people who live in ally countries who had the feeling they were going to be dissed. And they were. According to polling back then, the only countries where people were happy about the election were Russia and Israel.
 

mjb52

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2,904
I'm probably too old for Lady Gaga's whole thing generally but I do really like Shallow, for me the issue has always been about the way the music is cut together. I've said this before but it feels like a program that should have worked but didn't and I think it's that the music doesn't build right for the program. Of the US/Canadian teams I probably like Hubbell/Donohue the best (although the Danadians are getting to be tough competition) but their choreography this year just didn't seem to work somehow.
 

muffinplus

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3,660
You’re not American, right? It was after Trump’s election, that Euros. Not everybody was depressed and worried but a lot of people were, including people who live in ally countries who had the feeling they were going to be dissed. And they were. According to polling back then, the only countries where people were happy about the election were Russia and Israel.
OK...but I guess I don't see what audience reaction to that program had to do with US Elections results ?
 

PRlady

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34,906
OK...but I guess I don't see what audience reaction to that program had to do with US Elections results ?
Let’s put it this way. I sent the Euros program to dozens of non-fan people and posted it to social media. Many people responded with a version of “that’s just how I feel.”
 

blancanieves

Well-Known Member
Messages
770
I'm not sure that simply looking inward is entirely the answer for Hubbell/Donohue. Both of last year's programs meant something to them personally. They said as much in multiple interviews. The programs resonated with them personally on some level.

The problem, as I perceive it, is that other people didn't like the programs. Other people didn't like the music, first of all. And that predisposed them to not like the programs. There were many other complaints as well, about costumes, choreography, technique, their personalities, their looks, whether they can play characters, what have you. But I think the most basic problem was that people didn't like their music and themes.

Personally I feel like the best course of action would be to find some powerful and evocative music that doesn't necessarily have a built-in theme or character, but that is appealing on a wider scale, and make it their own and sort of return to the basics in that way. They did this in the past with their Tron and Hungarian Rhapsody FDs, and it worked well.
I wasn't referring to having an emotional connection to a program. I'm saying to look inward to reassess what to showcase about their skating. Before changing their creative strategy, they have to admit in the first place that said strategy is not working and understand for themselves why it isn't working.
 

Dobre

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7,255
Me the week Worlds were cancelled: I really don't want to see a bunch of reused programs.

Me this week: I just hope & pray my favorite teams will be able to keep skating together.
 

Weve3

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2,996
I am so torn about Sin/Kats since they already have such a well-received RD. It makes sense perhaps to keep it but pump it up with some new highlight moves? I think it is hard since we don't really know when the season will start again. If it is going to be truncated, like Nov. to Mar. that's different than if things get rolling again in June or July.
If I were them, I would keep it. It is reliable and comfortable by now, but as you suggested, adding some new highlight moves might be helpful. So, of course, they’ll go a different direction 😊. That would be okay, too. I’m sure they just want to get on with it, like we all do.
 

Bigbird

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1,266
P/C should do a really nice classic RD and retire FAME. Also do a return to the classics with the FD. As Scott says you have to dumb it down and make it easier for the judges.
 

casken

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10,655
P/C should do a really nice classic RD and retire FAME. Also do a return to the classics with the FD. As Scott says you have to dumb it down and make it easier for the judges.
In general, I'm anticipating FDs with one obvious thematic/dramatic idea that is "balanced" out with a final "happy clappy" section, ala Chock and Bates FD. Usually when something is that big a hit with both judges and the masses, everyone rushes to do their "take" on it.
 

Colonel Green

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5,788
Usually when something is that big a hit with both judges and the masses, everyone rushes to do their "take" on it.
On that front, honestly, I'm surprised we haven't really seen a lot of other teams trying to mimic Fear/Gibson yet, given what an obvious template they laid out for how a minor team can suddenly catch fire.
 

chantilly

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1,703
Well, H/B did go disco this year . . .
And Gilles and Poirier did it before them.
F and G are very much like G and P IMO because they pick themes and music outside the norm.
They choose music and vehicles that are a good match for their personality.
 

Gris

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388
I wonder if the ISU still plan to use Midnight Blues with Hip-hop in the Olympic season given the recent circumstances.
I've seen some rumor on Russian forum saying that they're now considering Golden Waltz as the pattern, probably since now there wouldn't be two consecutive years of waltzes?

If Midnight Blues + Hip-hop is still in the plan then there would be plenty disco-y programs.
 

chantilly

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1,703
In general, I'm anticipating FDs with one obvious thematic/dramatic idea that is "balanced" out with a final "happy clappy" section, ala Chock and Bates FD. Usually when something is that big a hit with both judges and the masses, everyone rushes to do their "take" on it.
I think Chock and Bates have very good material this year and had last year really.

But I think people counted them out when they shouldn’t have. They are the best lifters out there and have always had decent skating skills, though not the best.

They’ve improved a lot with IAM, but I also think they really struggled with injury, material and nerves in the last few seasons.

I’m not surprised they’re back on top to be honest. And I think they deserve it.
And this is coming from someone who was never a great fan of them and preferred both other US teams.

But they managed to pull it all together the last two seasons and I personally think that THAT is what is really being rewarded.

It’s not just their material IMHO.
 

Colonel Green

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5,788
I wonder if the ISU still plan to use Midnight Blues with Hip-hop in the Olympic season given the recent circumstances.
I've seen some rumor on Russian forum saying that they're now considering Golden Waltz as the pattern, probably since now there wouldn't be two consecutive years of waltzes?

If Midnight Blues + Hip-hop is still in the plan then there would be plenty disco-y programs.
While nothing's set in stone at this date, the reasons for supposedly picking the Midnight Blues for the Olympic season were seemingly about wanting the once-every-four-years crowd to see a theme with a lot of contemporary music/dance style incorporated.

That reasoning, if it's so, wouldn't be affected by whatever happens with the prior season.
 

VGThuy

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31,938
I’ve been wanting the Golden Waltz forever because it’s such a difficult dance that I want to see teams do it to separate the best from the rest. But the tech committee will probably butcher it and only make the teams only do like 1/3 of it or something.
 

heartyxo

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121
I think Chock and Bates have very good material this year and had last year really.

But I think people counted them out when they shouldn’t have. They are the best lifters out there and have always had decent skating skills, though not the best.

They’ve improved a lot with IAM, but I also think they really struggled with injury, material and nerves in the last few seasons.

I’m not surprised they’re back on top to be honest. And I think they deserve it.
And this is coming from someone who was never a great fan of them and preferred both other US teams.

But they managed to pull it all together the last two seasons and I personally think that THAT is what is really being rewarded.

It’s not just their material IMHO.
I completely agree. They’ve always had what they needed to be at the top and they never lost that. I think their downwards spiral was partly due to their assets not being properly utilised and partly due to them improving at a slower rate than others (although I do think they’ve improved every year).
For me, the nicest part about them recently has been their attitude, which has changed so much. In the years where results weren’t going their way it was evident that they were putting a lot of pressure on themselves (which didn’t help their consistency issues at all). To see them last season, come back so optimistic and skating because they love it after a difficult Olympic season, when they were skating injured, was so nice because there were many people doubting them/wanting them to retire yet they continued. And I think that positivity has helped them to get to where they are now. They worked for it and didn’t give up, and they got it.
 

chantilly

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1,703
Of course. Being attractive and being from the US helps.
Being attractive helps whatever country you’re from, cause it’s Ice Dance.

I remember watching Ice Dance with my roommate years ago and he was commenting on how good looking they all were. And my response was, “ Of course, it’s Ice Dance.
 

Firedancer

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1,500
Hawayek and Baker are doing an instagram live with Nathan Chen. They said they are keeping their rhythm dance and getting a new free.

They also said the rhythm dance for the Olympic season is still going to be hip hop.
 

Ka3sha

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6,637
I literally hate hip hop on the ice :yawn:

I can see the reasoning behind this for Olympics, but then it will most likely turn out to be a competition for the most crowd pleasing program...
 
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Weve3

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2,996
I literally hate hip hop on the ice :yawn:
Yeah, I agree with that. It’s also an oil and water don’t mix experience - or the equivalent of seeing it at the ballet, for example. 😖 Not sure the 4yr. fan knows quite what to make of it... 🤔
 

Peepsquick

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382
I literally hate hip hop on the ice :yawn:

I can see the reasoning behind this for Olympics, but then it will most likely turn out to be a competition for the most crowd pleasing program...
It probably because it is what works best for the typical Olympic crowd imo ... I don't like it particularly either but the public is not the same one you have at figure skating events. They want something showy and Hip Hop is showy.
 

Weve3

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It probably because it is what works best for the typical Olympic crowd imo ... I don't like it particularly either but the public is not the same one you have at figure skating events. They want something showy and Hip Hop is showy.
The typical Olympic crowd is far more sophisticated than expecting something simply showy to clap at like accommodating seals (no offense to seals) Hip-hop is a required taste and some may feel slightly embarrassed sitting through an awkward attempt at it. I’ve experienced that, people suddenly excusing themselves to go use the restroom. Kind of like the refrigerator break. And, no, it wasn’t Dick Button! 😜
 

Peepsquick

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382
The typical Olympic crowd is far more sophisticated than expecting something simply showy to clap at like accommodating seals (no offense to seals) Hip-hop is a required taste and some may feel slightly embarrassed sitting through an awkward attempt at it. I’ve experienced that, people suddenly excusing themselves to go use the restroom. Kind of like the refrigerator break. And, no, it wasn’t Dick Button! 😜
I do think that the music plays a big role in appealing to sports fan of all types vs figure skating fans who might like hip hop (as a dance) but know that it is not a good match for the ice-magic, the flow. It can be fun but it will rarely enhance what makes ice dance a mesmerizing sport/art.
 

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