The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

[Bigbird]

I was thinking it was a current skater if he was hesitant to say.

So he thinks Katsalapov is better than Moir? Wow. Katsalapov is talented yes. He has his speed and softness yes, but the nuances and intangibles that would make him one of the greatest, IMHO, no. But hey.....

 

[Regretla]

So he thinks Katsalapov is better than Moir? Wow. Katsalapov is talented yes. He has his speed and softness yes, but the nuances and intangibles that would make him one of the greatest, IMHO, no. But hey.....

He probably meant Cizeron but since he's competition and SK beat them at Euros he couldn't really name him in the first place.He has a couple he wants to put on the top of the podium in 2022, how can he name their main competitor as one of the three best male partners ever? It's like shooting yourself on the foot.

 

[mjb52]

Maybe he means himself...

 

[Ka3sha]

Something in this interview prompted me to rewatch the U/Z Four Seasons program. I haven’t seen it in a long time. Their pairing ended pretty unpleasantly obviously but they were such a great team at their best.

He also talked a lot about working with Giuseppe Arena and how grateful he is.

 

[Immortelle]

So he thinks Katsalapov is better than Moir? Wow. Katsalapov is talented yes. He has his speed and softness yes, but the nuances and intangibles that would make him one of the greatest, IMHO, no. But hey.....

God no, not Katsalapov! I was meaning Cizeron.

 

[Bigbird]

Maybe he means himself...

Yes. LOL.

 

[Ka3sha]

EDIT: What are the pills Betina refers to? Diuretics to help shed water? Is this what the Russian forums refer to when they say an athlete becomes "dry"?

Most likely yes, she talks about diuretics.
As for "dry" - usually it's used in reference to muscles and body types. For example, when abs or muscles are clearly visible.

 

[Andora]

Maybe he means himself...

I assumed this immediately, though Guillaume is another ideal guess!

 

[Wyliefan]

Poor Betina. I'm glad her mom has been able to help her, but it sounds like she still has a way to go.

 

[PRlady]

Poor Betina. I'm glad her mom has been able to help her, but it sounds like she still has a way to go.

It’s always tough being a Russian lady in any discipline, but with the two top ice dancers now lithe, long-limbed blondes, I’d imagine the pressure on someone like Popova to be thinner than her natural body type was intense.

 

[marbri]

Considering her coach was Krylova I am not surprised to read that from Betina and actually wondered some time back what talks between them in training may have been like. (I say this as Krylova hasn´t been shy in the past commenting on "fat" skaters.)

 

[aftershocks]

Says lots of colleagues and top dance coaches called him and congratulated him after that victory, because this win showed that everything is possible.

It all just sounds like more p.r. prep for hoping to take down Pap/Ciz again. Of course, Zhulin is a good coach, and he's helped SinKats to improve. But I still think it's a lot of politics involved in pushing up both S/K and Step/Buk, who actually are not as good as some other teams, despite their hard work and competitiveness. It's just this everlasting thirst and over-reach for Russian teams to be on top in ice dance again.

IMHO, the breathtaking, precipitous rise of Papadakis/Cizeron already showed us how everything is possible with talent, dedication, hard work and fairy dust magic. On any given day, it's definitely possible to beat sure-thing top-of-their game athletes, when they may not be exactly at their absolute best. But even a bit slightly off or distracted Pap/Ciz are better than SinKats, so S/K barely edging out a Euros win mostly reveals what a huge political push and the right judging panel can help accomplish. It also demonstrates how ice dance politics is majorly rearing its nefarious head again, big time.

Meanwhile, here's a bit of down memory lane magic:

Somewhere in Time-Dubreuil Lauzon-06 World (Perfect Quality)

Somewhere in Time - choreographed by David Wilson

www.youtube.com

 

[mjb52]

Sometimes it seems like people think Nikita is just some rando who botches twizzles occasionally. He won an individual Olympic bronze medal when he was only 22. I re-watched their performance last night and the response from the crowd and the BBC commentators was simply rapturous. There are still people in the comments who think they should have won the entire thing. He's an incredibly talented skater. Victoria is not just some nobody either - she is a former junior world champion who also made it to the Olympics at a very young age, only two years out of juniors. They are both wonderful skaters. It's not surprising that now that they have been able to gel as a team and overcome their different backgrounds when it comes to technique (this is something I've seen come up in a bunch of interviews) that they are contending for the title. It would be surprising if they weren't.

 

[Ka3sha]

It’s always tough being a Russian lady in any discipline, but with the two top ice dancers now lithe, long-limbed blondes, I’d imagine the pressure on someone like Popova to be thinner than her natural body type was intense.

But one of these liphe, long-limber blondes (Sinitsina) has also openly admitted that she had to control her weight, keep strict diet and had been constantly controlled by Marina back in the day when they trained in Canton. Stepanova hasn’t said the same, but it doesn’t mean things are different for her.

Also, both of these blondes had and still have to deal with other types of pressure on every day basis. Both had to prove that they are good enough and worth of their “better and more skilled partners”. The amount of critique Sinitsina got in 2014 was hideous, and at the age of 19 she had to deal with all the hate she got from fans and with all those comparisons to Elena. Am not a big fan of Stepanova as a skater , but her path isn’t an easy one either. Surely it’s not easy to be considered as a weaker part of the pairing with the talented son of Olympic champion.

Of course, I also feel sorry for Betina and how things turned out in the end. Probably she also felt some pressure because of Sergei’s chronic back injury , so she knew she had to be thinner, weight less and etc (even if he fully supported her and was against her taking those pills).

Considering her coach was Krylova I am not surprised to read that from Betina and actually wondered some time back what talks between them in training may have been like. (I say this as Krylova hasn´t been shy in the past commenting on "fat" skaters.)

Based on this interview it seems to me that the story she told about happened long time before they moved to Krylova or even teamed up with Sergei.

 

[PRlady]

Let’s face it, weight is an issue for almost all the women once they’re past puberty. The dancers don’t have to rotate jumps but the ones who look too big for their partners, even if it’s because the guy is small like Baker, Parsons when he was skating with Rachel, Fabbri etc have a particular problem. One reason I like Shipilaeva is that she seems to own her curvy body. Madison Hubbell gets some snipes for being a bigger dancer but she’s lucky she has a big partner.

I’m sure Vika and Sasha have to be careful but nature, and the size of their partners, has been kind to them.

 

[aftershocks]

Sometimes it seems like people think Nikita is just some rando who botches twizzles occasionally. He won an individual Olympic bronze medal when he was only 22. I re-watched their performance last night and the response from the crowd and the BBC commentators was simply rapturous. There are still people in the comments who think they should have won the entire thing. He's an incredibly talented skater. Victoria is not just some nobody either - she is a former junior world champion who also made it to the Olympics at a very young age. It's not surprising that now that they have been able to gel as a team and overcome their different backgrounds when it comes to technique (this is something I've seen come up in a bunch of interviews) that they are contending for the title. It would be surprising if they weren't.

SinKats have worked extremely hard, yes. But they still have work to do. I don't particularly care for either of their program music selections and choreo this season. The politics has definitely helped them rise faster and jump over some teams who are just as good or better.

With his former partner, Nikita won an individual ice dance bronze medal at the 2014 Olympics. He didn't win it by himself alone. I don't think anyone who is an ice dance aficionado can forget that wonderful performance by I/K. I'm sure many of us were looking forward to their trajectory on the ice dance scene... Oh, but oops! I would partly blame their split on the gnarly circumstances precipitated by Morozov.

Ilinykh - Katsalapov 2014-02 Olympics FD Swanlake Tchaikovsky BBC

www.youtube.com

It's water under the bridge now, but I would be here for a rivalry between I/K and P/C or a triple treat with V/M thrown in there. Alas, not to be...

Psst btw, Papadakis/Cizeron are head-and-shoulders above most teams today. If Sin/Kats actually moved up convincingly like most talented teams, okay then. But they didn't. They had a helping hand with a big political push starting last season. Sure SinKats improved, but not suddenly better than some of the teams they jumped over. With the ever politically-advantaged B/S leaving the scene for Russia, I guess Zhulin had S/K working overtime as he worked overtime with p.r. and politics to take advantage of the transitional scene in ice dance (post absence of a number of retired teams).

 

[Wyliefan]

Sometimes it seems like people think Nikita is just some rando who botches twizzles occasionally.

Who botches his twizzles AND who still has us fearing for his partner's life every time he lifts her. He strikes me as a guy with tons of talent but without a stable foundation (in more ways than one).

 

[Ka3sha]

Let’s face it, weight is an issue for almost all the women once they’re past puberty. The dancers don’t have to rotate jumps but the ones who look too big for their partners, even if it’s because the guy is small like Baker, Parsons when he was skating with Rachel, Fabbri etc have a particular problem. One reason I like Shipilaeva is that she seems to own her curvy body. Madison Hubbell gets some snipes for being a bigger dancer but she’s lucky she has a big partner.

Do you mean Shpilevaya?
She has some curvy parts for sure, but she also is very small (around 154 cm) and thin, so it's not the same.

 

[aftershocks]

There are still people in the comments who think they should have won the entire thing.

Hmmm yes, some people.

At the 2014 Olympics, I/K were behind about 5.85 points from first place after a world-record setting sd performance by Davis/White. Fat chance that I/K deserved to win the whole shebang simply because of their gorgeous fd, albeit with slight twizzle issues.

I'll remind 'some people' that I/K were competing against Davis/White (who hadn't lost a competition in two years), and the not so forgettable, Virtue/Moir. However beautiful I/K's Swan Lake, they weren't going to be giant killers at that competition, even if it was taking place in Sochi.

I/K did beautifully well to solidify their third place position in the fd, with Pechalat/Bourzat hot on their skate blades after the sd. And of course, don't forget that the long-suffering, long politically fortunate Bobrova/Soloviev had entered the competition as the number one Russian team. In Sochi 2014, I/K were battling for third, not for gold.

 

[mjb52]

I never said I personally thought they deserved to win the whole thing... It was a great performance though.

 

[aftershocks]

I never said I personally thought they deserved to win the whole thing... It was a great performance though.

Tee hee... So in my previous post I changed, "I'll remind you..." to "I'll remind 'some people' ..."

Still, it makes no never mind what 'some people' think ...

Yeah, I/K came together for one last time, and they looked d**n good together too. But sadly, as we know, Nikita had already made up his mind to ditch the partnership, even as they were performing the heck out of Swan Lake. The split was not a good decision. But Morosov's choices which preceded Nikita's selfish resolve, were worse.

 

[Ka3sha]

I loved I/K from their first and victorious junior season, was heartbroken when they split, but in a long term, IMHO, Nikita made a right choice in 2014.

 

[pairsicedance]

But one of these liphe, long-limber blondes (Sinitsina) has also openly admitted that she had to control her weight, keep strict diet and had been constantly controlled by Marina back in the day when they trained in Canton. Stepanova hasn’t said the same, but it doesn’t mean things are different for her.

The things Victoria said about Marina's 'techniques' in that interview were horrifying.

"Marina constantly had me stand on the weight-scale, I started to fear them (the scale). Before each weighing I ran to the bathroom and removed all could off myself, the pins, the rubber bands, the jewelry, or gosh forbid an extra gram is showing. I cried. But wanted to skate like crazy. I had to keep myself in form, no matter what it takes. Thanks to Marina, I was able to step over myself.
When the practice was over, in the evenings, I would put on heavy pants, 3 heavy sweaters (to sweat out), and 3 times a week I would wrap myself in plastic wrap and would run for an hour. I created for myself a tough dry-out process.

No, I never told her. All she did is gave me a weight limit to keep to – if you keep to this (certain) weight – you can come to practice (if not, then don’t). Marina is that kind of coach, she will not beat around the push with the athlete. It took me a while to get it.

Q: Took you a while to get it?
A: I tried. First one diet, then the other, then third one, then I only ate rice. Then I was twisted on this issue, and started to weight myself 4 times a day. That was not normal for a person."

 

[mjb52]

The attitude towards weight that comes up with some Russian coaches is definitely something that concerns me. I don’t think it’s exclusive to them but it shows up in interviews more openly certainly. I’m not sure what the answer is though. It might be helpful for the ISU to address the issue of eating disorders in the sport in some way but I don’t perceive it as having such great sensitivity as an organization that it is ready or has the expertise to do it effectively.

 

[her grace]

The ISU could change the lift requirements that encourage lopsided sizing matches if they really cared about eating disorders in ice dance.

 

[Bigbird]

I loved I/K from their first and victorious junior season, was heartbroken when they split, but in a long term, IMHO, Nikita made a right choice in 2014.

You are right about that, she over shadowed him. She needed a more mature partner, with her he looked like a boy. In terms of temperament they were poorly matched, also with respect to body type and dancing style they simply outgrew each other long before 2014 came around. However, the disrespectful way in which he ended things, albeit reflective of his own personal style was horrendous. He and Victoria will never be able to fully live that down.

 

[Bigbird]

The things Victoria said about Marina's 'techniques' in that interview were horrifying.

"Marina constantly had me stand on the weight-scale, I started to fear them (the scale). Before each weighing I ran to the bathroom and removed all could off myself, the pins, the rubber bands, the jewelry, or gosh forbid an extra gram is showing. I cried. But wanted to skate like crazy. I had to keep myself in form, no matter what it takes. Thanks to Marina, I was able to step over myself.
When the practice was over, in the evenings, I would put on heavy pants, 3 heavy sweaters (to sweat out), and 3 times a week I would wrap myself in plastic wrap and would run for an hour. I created for myself a tough dry-out process.

No, I never told her. All she did is gave me a weight limit to keep to – if you keep to this (certain) weight – you can come to practice (if not, then don’t). Marina is that kind of coach, she will not beat around the push with the athlete. It took me a while to get it.

Q: Took you a while to get it?
A: I tried. First one diet, then the other, then third one, then I only ate rice. Then I was twisted on this issue, and started to weight myself 4 times a day. That was not normal for a person."

IMHO, sometimes, just sometimes there are some things more important than competitive figure skating. Much respect to those who told these trainers where they could stuff it. Gubanova girl, and others respect!!

 

[mjb52]

I don’t think it’s a great idea to go over that break-up yet again and I probably shouldn’t have referenced it even in passing. My basic point was that Victoria and Nikita are good skaters. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to be getting good marks. I respect Gabi and Guillame immensely but I don’t think that people always talk about S/K in this thread respectfully and I wish they did.

as to the other topic I think the idea of de-emphasizing lifts a bit is an interesting one that ties back to Zhulin’s comment on the difference between ice dance in the nineties and today. Is there no limit at all on lifts now other than their length in seconds? And the practical one of having to fulfill a bunch of other requirements?

 

[aftershocks]

I loved I/K from their first and victorious junior season, was heartbroken when they split, but in a long term, IMHO, Nikita made a right choice in 2014.

How so do you think his choice was right?

 

[aftershocks]

The attitude towards weight that comes up with some Russian coaches is definitely something that concerns me. I don’t think it’s exclusive to them but it shows up in interviews more openly certainly. I’m not sure what the answer is though. It might be helpful for the ISU to address the issue of eating disorders in the sport in some way but I don’t perceive it as having such great sensitivity as an organization that it is ready or has the expertise to do it effectively.

Frankly, the sport as a whole needs to decide on a lot of pressing issues of major concern that aren't going away, despite being completely ignored by TPTB for the most part. ISU and feds are always dragged kicking and screaming to face anything, so it usually takes scandals of out-sized proportions to even gain a flicker of their attention. And even then, TPTB have so many status quo excuses to hide behind as they lapse back into Attention Deficit Disorder.