The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,671
They’re a team that scored quite differently between their two GP events (a 108 FD at NHK was a pleasant development), so I’m curious how they place at nationals.
I like Shevchenko & Eremenko's FD also. They did score quite differently, and I am interested how they will place here also. I will mention that the caller at NHK was Russian, and of course, SA was not an easy place to go. They also did not get any CS events this season, which really seems unfair when it comes to trying to qualify via a top 24 score. I wonder if that might be because their first score, via the GP, was low and they did not bring in the high score until NHK? At that point, they had already been left off the sub list for Golden Spin, though GS generally seems flexible and two of the other Russian teams pulled out. I suppose it is quite possible that S&E didn't want that quick turnover post-NHK and prior to Nationals; but it has left them outside the top 24. How are they doing on your record of World Standings rankings heading into next season at the moment, @RoseRed?

They are currently top 6 on the SB list as far as the Russian teams are concerned, and that is a positive for S&E--particularly during a season in which even the highest junior score of the season has not made the top 24.
 
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RoseRed

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1,651
I like Shevchenko & Eremenko's FD also. They did score quite differently, and I am interested how they will place here also. I will mention that the caller at NHK was Russian, and of course, SA was not an easy place to go. They also did not get any CS events this season, which really seems unfair when it comes to trying to qualify via a top 24 score. I wonder if that might be because their first score, via the GP, was low and they did not bring in the high score until NHK? At that point, they had already been left off the sub list for Golden Spin, though GS generally seems flexible and two of the other Russian teams pulled out. I suppose it is quite possible that S&E didn't want that quick turnover post-NHK and prior to Nationals; but it has left them outside the top 24. How are they doing on your record of World Standings rankings heading into next season at the moment, @RoseRed?

They are currently top 6 on the SB list as far as the Russian teams are concerned, and that is a positive for S&E--particularly during a season in which even the highest junior score of the season has not made the top 24.
I have them 24th right now. With Nguyen/Kolesnik right behind and almost sure to overtake them as long as they do JW.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,671
In honor of Russian Nationals & Christmas, there is currently a very supportive campaign running to vote Popova & Mozgov onto Team Trainwreck. (After all, clearly they can use as much of a support system as possible).

Anyway, if you feel like supporting this . . . only slightly questionable venture;), please go add a post to vote for them in the Team Trainwreck thread. We have only about 1/2 a day to gather ten votes.

Ice dance is currently woefully underrepresented on "The Team," so--you know--you might consider it a fight for equal representation:). Should you care to analyze Popova & Mozgov's worthiness, here are Ka3sha's & my applications on P&M's behalf:

As if that interview was not enough :lol:
Or this one

Or all of this

Or their presence on Mess Shortlist, Part 1
:p
Criteria:
1) Skater needs a complete package to potentially be a top skater at Euros/4CC's/Worlds/Olympic level


Popova & Mozgov defeated last year's 9th place finishers from Europeans twice this season. Actually, I think have defeated last year's 9th place finishers from Europeans in every international head-to-head between these two teams, including last year's Universiade which P&M won. (Naturally did not defeat them at Russian Nationals, as that would have been very non-trainwrecky last season). Also P&M's results are certainly comparable to Soucisse & Firus who have a 4CC silver medal. Oh, yes, and also defeated last year's 5th place finishers from the GPF at Russian Nationals on lovely choo choo day.

Skater needs to have the ability to absolutely rock one day and splat the day after. Even better: rock and splat during one program.

2019 Nepela
2018 Golden Spin


Skater is not afraid of breaking one's heart over and over again

Currently in grave danger of helping to head up the GP alternate list for the 2nd or 3rd season in a row. Also P&M's second season--in only 4 years--of missing Russian Nationals. Did I mention they missed a prime opportunity to qualify for Europeans last year? Missed Golden Spin this year, which was--for the second year in a row--a prime opportunity to earn a top 24 score. Were ignored for the Rostelecom host spot despite being at the top of said list this season in favor of other lovely Team Trainwreck team.


Skater needs more splat/messy performances than great ones

Messy? Check. Also splatting evident at at least three notable events (Russian Cup qualifier in their opening season when they could have gone to Nationals, Golden Spin last year when they could have earned their way onto the SB list, Nepela this year when ditto).

Rules:
1) Worlds/Olympic medalists and Euro/4CC's champions are not eligible

Check.

2) Multiple Euros/4CC's medal winners are not eligible
Check

3) Membership and changes to the Rules and Qualities shall be decided by consensus among longstanding posters in the #TeamTrainwreck Threads, subject to points 1) and 2)
Am quite certain at least Ka3sha & Alchemy Void are in agreement that P&M are certifiably trainwrecky.

4) The pinky166 is not allowed to make more than one proposal a day
Check.

5) Proposals can be submitted in the #teamtrainwreck thread
Check.

6) New membership is granted only to current skaters
Check.

7) New membership is only granted to senior skaters (at least one international senior competition)
Check.

8) Membership can be cancelled due to points 1) and 2), numerous decent skates in a row or not being competitive on elite level anymore.
Totally not a problem.

1) Being a student of Volchkova/Rukavicin
No, but there was some broughhaha including the coach when Y&P split and Popova was the "other woman" who "stole" Mozgov from Yanovskaya in the rumor mill. Then Mozgov had Ilinykh and Yanovskaya both sticking their tongues out at him on social media. Plus apparently there was some gossip about him being mixed up in the whole Ilinykh & Katsalapov split because perhaps P&M do not have enough drama on their own?

2) Big boobs/nice ass
3) Boobs/belly/nipples showing
11) Bizarre Choreo
12) Hair
9) Costume (-Malfunction)

I'm just going to throw all these together & say that handcuffs, prison/wedding dress/dinosaur costumes, PG13 lifts, Betina drama, kissing-your-partner-while-skating-to-50-Shades-of-Gray-as-a-junior-in-what-is-supposed-to-be-a-waltz, and that ghastly dangly thing he was wearing for last year's FD, plus his splits choreo slide in Bohemian Rhapsody, and this season's Cabaret...really, P&M are overqualfied here.

4) Mule kick
N/A

5) Being Uzbek/Russian
Check

6) last name called Schott
:rolleyes:

7) Bizarre off ice incidents
8) Coach

Check & check. See the second #1 above.
 

heartyxo

Well-Known Member
Messages
96
1 point between S/K and S/B. 1 point.
Neither of them are my favorite team but I definitely enjoy S/B more and I feel sorry for them. They were so close.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,141
1 point between S/K and S/B. 1 point.
Neither of them are my favorite team but I definitely enjoy S/B more and I feel sorry for them. They were so close.
SB VS. SK
I thought S/K was both sloppy and dull. Really thought SB had this one LOL. But I think the international community doesn't care much. They've seen enough Russian Nationals to understand the politics. IMHO, just another two more teams battling for bronze, have this gut feeling that PC and CB are going to take off with HD not far behind. How is TAT doing though?

OTHERS.
Props to Morozova and B. I can see that Morozov really is the boss at teaching skating skills, they have really improved.

There was another young dancey team with really soft, soft, bouncy knees, really liked but they need more work.

It's a pity Russia has so few good male ice dancers, Elizaveta N. has the makings of a great ice dancer.

Drozd with current partner looks like a fish out of water, pretentious and fake. Does Zhulin only have one gear? Where is the man who did Karinina and Crazy? Also their postures need so much work, he hunches too much and she breaks too much at the waist, could it be due to their height and the newness of the team? Just asking...
 

heartyxo

Well-Known Member
Messages
96
SB VS. SK
I thought S/K was both sloppy and dull. Really thought SB had this one LOL. But I think the international community doesn't care much. They've seen enough Russian Nationals to understand the politics. IMHO, just another two more teams battling for bronze, have this gut feeling that PC and CB are going to take off with HD not far behind. How is TAT doing though?

OTHERS.
Props to Morozova and B. I can see that Morozov really is the boss at teaching skating skills, they have really improved.

There was another young dancey team with really soft, soft, bouncy knees, really liked but they need more work.

It's a pity Russia has so few good male ice dancers, Elizaveta N. has the makings of a great ice dancer.

Drozd with current partner looks like a fish out of water, pretentious and fake. Does Zhulin only have one gear? Where is the man who did Karinina and Crazy? Also their postures need so much work, he hunches too much and she breaks too much at the waist, could it be due to their height and the newness of the team? Just asking...
I hope CB take off, I'm 100% supporting them for nats/4cc champs and world silver. I don't know about HD though, I have a feeling Rusfed are gonna get SK on the world podium somehow.

There's a lot of potential in younger Russian teams but I think things are gonna stay the way they are for a while- SK and SB then ZG a distant third. I'm glad they did well, I enjoy watching them.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,141
I hope CB take off, I'm 100% supporting them for nats/4cc champs and world silver. I don't know about HD though, I have a feeling Rusfed are gonna get SK on the world podium somehow.

There's a lot of potential in younger Russian teams but I think things are gonna stay the way they are for a while- SK and SB then ZG a distant third. I'm glad they did well, I enjoy watching them.
Or SB could just as easily. Time will out.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,377
It kills me a little bit on principle to like S&B over S&K. I recognize wholeheartedly that S&K are the better team in terms of skating skills, but wholy hell do they ever look flingy and sloppy at the same time. There's no need for it! That's what I'd expect from lesser teams to hide flaws. I've yet to enjoy a single FD of theirs, but I will note that this year's is the best version of the soft and attempted-floatyness they've yet done. Maybe Zhulin's a genius after all-- by Beijing they should have the perfect program. :p Meanwhile, S&B seemed to have more control, finesse, and programs that keep my attention. Damn it. I actually think she has better arms than she's given credit for.

Lots of interesting younger Russian teams, though. :)
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,141
It kills me a little bit on principle to like S&B over S&K. I recognize wholeheartedly that S&K are the better team in terms of skating skills, but wholy hell do they ever look flingy and sloppy at the same time. There's no need for it! That's what I'd expect from lesser teams to hide flaws. I've yet to enjoy a single FD of theirs, but I will note that this year's is the best version of the soft and attempted-floatyness they've yet done. Maybe Zhulin's a genius after all-- by Beijing they should have the perfect program. :p Meanwhile, S&B seemed to have more control, finesse, and programs that keep my attention. Damn it. I actually think she has better arms than she's given credit for.

Lots of interesting younger Russian teams, though. :)
That's Zhulin's and K's style.

I thought today was one of their worst performances of that FD. Did not deserve gold and K knew it. He and Z were talking at length after rather than enjoying the victory. SB on the otherhand were over the moon. Good for them.
 

VGThuy

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Messages
31,221
S/K have a lot of potential and great qualities, but I can’t help but think their rise is like the powers that be trying to make “fetch” happen.
 

heartyxo

Well-Known Member
Messages
96
S/K are much, much better skaters than S/B. It's a fact.
The problem I have with S/K's FD is that the music indicates that there should be soft and subtle movement for a lot of it. Then you have his aggressive twizzles and over the top facial expressions. It doesn't fit.
Their tango RD is, for me, their best program and I think that sharper style would suit them much better than what they're doing now.
S/B's FD definitely suits them and is enjoyable, despite her weak skating skills.
 

happycamper2554

Active Member
Messages
170
That's Zhulin's and K's style.

I thought today was one of their worst performances of that FD. Did not deserve gold and K knew it. He and Z were talking at length after rather than enjoying the victory. SB on the otherhand were over the moon. Good for them.
I think (no real proof) Katsalapov is injured. he looks more shaky then usual and seems to be regressing. I know he was injured over the summer.
 

casken

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Messages
10,574
Stepanova gave it away on that one foot sequence, imo. I'm dubious as to whether that would have been called level three by an international tech panel.

I'm fine with S&K winning, but they haven't been able to perform their programs with the same lightness and freedom as they did at the Russian test skates. The GP seires, the GPF, Russian Nats, etc, all tight. Katsapolov looks like he's trending back to "on the verge of disaster at all times" skating.

Some of the lower ranked teams actually had some original programs and risky choreography. Besides Shevchenko/Eremenko, I was impressed by the voidy-ness of Bibikhina/Zvorykin (felt very "French"), and despite their size similarity, Ignatieva/Bragin where doing some interesting moves.
 

Bigbird

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Messages
1,141
Stepanova gave it away on that one foot sequence, imo. I'm dubious as to whether that would have been called level three by an international tech panel.

I'm fine with S&K winning, but they haven't been able to perform their programs with the same lightness and freedom as they did at the Russian test skates. The GP seires, the GPF, Russian Nats, etc, all tight. Katsapolov looks like he's trending back to "on the verge of disaster at all times" skating.

Some of the lower ranked teams actually had some original programs and risky choreography. Besides Shevchenko/Eremenko, I was impressed by the voidy-ness of Bibikhina/Zvorykin (felt very "French"), and despite their size similarity, Ignatieva/Bragin where doing some interesting moves.
One of these days she's going to topple over on that knee lift. It's so poorly done in comparison to the original. In fact you are right, he is very sloppy in all their lifts and in the final one in particular he struggles.
 

Bigbird

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Messages
1,141
S/K are much, much better skaters than S/B. It's a fact.
The problem I have with S/K's FD is that the music indicates that there should be soft and subtle movement for a lot of it. Then you have his aggressive twizzles and over the top facial expressions. It doesn't fit.
Their tango RD is, for me, their best program and I think that sharper style would suit them much better than what they're doing now.
S/B's FD definitely suits them and is enjoyable, despite her weak skating skills.
To be honest when they skate the way they did this weekend that weakness is not glaring and in fact when SK are skating so heavily with a very open relatively empty program, you really do them no favours by scoring them so highly. Sinitsina again toppled over on the slide, why don't they simply go back to the original ending?
 

Eisfee

Well-Known Member
Messages
275
Oh man, all this negativy on S/K in this forum...

Maybe I'm the only one here, but on a positive note- congrats Vika and Nik!
All the best for the rest of this season, health and strenght!

Over and out!
 

firstflight

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Messages
446
S/K’s curved lift is so disruptive to the enjoyment of the program. The effort-filled launching of her. And then every single time my eyes are drawn to his shaking leg as I’m thinking “Why?!” I’m pulled out of program.
 

Bigbird

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Messages
1,141
Oh man, all this negativy on S/K in this forum...

Maybe I'm the only one here, but on a positive note- congrats Vika and Nik!
All the best for the rest of this season, health and strenght!

Over and out!
When a win isn't deserved or controvertial their is always this sort of outcry. If you look at their body language and the concern in Nikita's expressions after, you know that they know, that win was bogus.
 

rupertsurvive

Banned Member
Messages
25
S/K have a lot of potential and great qualities, but I can’t help but think their rise is like the powers that be trying to make “fetch” happen.
I thought that last season a bit, but at the GPF I thought they were actually kind of robbed/underscored. Atleast in the free dance, I know their short dance was a bit off for them.

And now looking back I get their success last year much more than I did at the time. Hubbell & Donohue were big dissapointments last year after their breakout the season previous and had a ridicuolous FD that did not suit their style at all. This season they are continuing to disappoint, and it is costing them as they are being threatened to lose their U.S #1 status to Chock & Bates who have not been U.S #1 since 2015 now. Weaver & Poje were already semi retired and showed up at worlds after not competing all season. They were clearly better than their teammates last season unless they made a major error. Other than possibly Chock & Bates who were held down by U.S #2 status nobody had any decent case to beat them at worlds.
 

Gris

Well-Known Member
Messages
353
So Lopareva / Brissaud are selected for Euros and Lauriault / Le Gac aren't even listed as a sub. :eek:

Ice Dance (3)
Gabriella PAPADAKIS & Guillaume CIZERON
Adelina GALYAVIEVA & Louis THAURON
Evgenia LOPAREVA & Geoffrey BRISSAUD
Julia WAGRET & Pierre SOUQUET (Substitutes)
Natacha LAGOUGE & Arnaud CAFFA (Substitutes)
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,377
One of these days she's going to topple over on that knee lift. It's so poorly done in comparison to the original. In fact you are right, he is very sloppy in all their lifts and in the final one in particular he struggles.
I feel nervous during at least half of their lifts, to be honest, and I have to assume it's technique on both their parts. I don't think either were setting the world ablaze during lifts with previous partners. She's very fit, but also very tall and could be lacking enough core/stability support to secure herself in some lifts? And, of course, FSU has written multiple books on Katsalapov's alleged past work issues, and who knows how that could affect ability, stamina, etc...

Currently S&B don't have this problem, and I watched for it today with that in mind. I continue to be impressed with how their lifts don't get out of control, for the most part.
 

Dobre

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Messages
6,671
Kudos to Galayavieva & Thauron and Lopareva & Brissaud for the berths at Europeans. I am happy for them.

Surely they must have been asked and turned it down?
Something must be up if they aren't even on the sub list. With Sorensen just having surgery, it makes you wonder if L&LG also have something they've decided to take care of now?
 

Gris

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Messages
353
I feel nervous during at least half of their lifts, to be honest, and I have to assume it's technique on both their parts. I don't think either were setting the world ablaze during lifts with previous partners. She's very fit, but also very tall and could be lacking enough core/stability support to secure herself in some lifts? And, of course, FSU has written multiple books on Katsalapov's alleged past work issues, and who knows how that could affect ability, stamina, etc...

Currently S&B don't have this problem, and I watched for it today with that in mind. I continue to be impressed with how their lifts don't get out of control, for the most part.
Given how shaky Nikita has been in that curve lift, I'm actually impressed at Victoria's posture and extension and I think she is the better one of the two this season overall.

S/B's lifts (and twizzles) are their best technical elements.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,671
Oh man, all this negativy on S/K in this forum...

Maybe I'm the only one here, but on a positive note- congrats Vika and Nik!
All the best for the rest of this season, health and strenght!

Over and out!
Don't worry, @Eisfee. I'm sure you're not the only one. And I love reading your posts so keep sharing them:).

Not sure if this will help, but possibly:

I don't think the overwhelming sense of negativity on the boards that you're probably feeling really has much to do with S&K at all but is more of a knee-jerk trend that seems to happen on the boards 90% of the time a dance team climbs onto the World podium. In part because it is so hard to follow up a great set of programs with another set that people love equally, in part because maintaining a top-three spot at the World level is a different competitive challenge that athletes have to learn, and in part because "momentum" is just much harder to achieve when you are already top 3 in the World than when you are 4-8th and almost every outing can be seen as a climb. Teams that climb just need one surprise win to impress. Fans of teams that are already ranked top 3 find that their favorites are expected to win practically every portion of every competition every time out. Two completely different non-comparable standards.

Anyway, we all know that having your heart attached to a medal-winning dance team can be tough. As a Shib fan, I've experienced it. I've zero doubt that Hubbell & Donohue, Weaver & Poje, Cappellini & Lanotte, and Chock & Bates's biggest fans have experienced it. A lot of us in The Dance Hall know where you are coming from even if we are most emotionally attached to different teams.

In case it helps, a few techniques I've used:

1. Fan threads can be a beautiful safe place to go. A good place to celebrate without the negativity of people who prefer another team. And a good place to discuss what could make ones' favorites' programs stronger without worrying that one's thoughts may be misinterpreted.

2. It's always OK to skip the play-by-play. Whenever I have a favorite team competing, I'm always so nervous that I don't want to hear any negativity. Sometimes I'll just go into the play-by-play and try to pepper the thread with my positive thoughts without reading the other comments. (It makes for pretty nonsensical conversation sometimes, but at least it's positive nonsensical conversation, LOL). In any case, one can always go back & read the thread after the event is over and there is less stress.

3. I don't use the ignore feature, but I hear it's a lovely way to avoid negativity that always seems to come from the same direction. Another method is to just skip a page of discussion after a rough competition. This one I've definitely used;).

Anyway, this wouldn't be the Dance Hall without so many of us that have different opinions and love so many different teams!
 
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