The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
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9,323
Na those were politiks. B&A were put in silver because russian felt Navka could eat on their heads. While DenStav were too dangerous. Don't get me started on Grushina to fend off anyone else too. That were the worst time in ice dance history. They nearly killed their own sport by being that obvious and crazy.
Virtue & Moir were already the ones to beat by 2009. But with Tessa's injury, they had some problems winning before that.

Still, ice dance WITHOUT politiks is no ice dance.

I just wish russian ice dancers could, one year, come by early september and be fully ready, costumes made, and just tiny bits and pieces to fix.
What they shown there is unacceptable. Not one team was ready, not one came with costumes (I will pretend Popova's costumes ARE not costumes). The whole russian ice dance is not working not being ready by the end of august. It's fecking ice dance, everything COUNTS.
 

starrynight

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1,338
I wonder what US Champs Camp or Canadian High Performance Camp or whatever the French equivalent is would look like if it was internationally broadcast? We don’t know because we never see it. Programs and music choices are often kept a total secret, sometimes with programs totally changing with no one finding out. It’s easy to judge on this when the rest of the world’s teams aren’t required to do the same. Some top ice dance teams don’t even do Challenger events and turn up only on the GP. Who knows what their programs looked like in August, if they even had completed programs.
 
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MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,323
Because everything counts in ice dance. You're not ready, you don't show the programs. Simple.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,338
It's just a huge fed with a policy of open test skates and a sink or swim policy of not making special exemptions. I think there's something really fun and ballsy about the way the athletes all turn up and exhibit. Everyone has to prove themselves at the same time, OGM or World Champ or whatever.

Of course some feds can do things where they make all the audience put away cameras and turn off the live stream to conceal certain programs, but that's not how the Russian system works. How do you choose who to favour or what discipline to coddle in Russia? It's nice as a fan to have things like these open test skates.
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,323
As I said, other disciplines do not count.
In Ice dance, the first time you SHOW your program, be ready and sharp, or make sure noone can see it.
That's how it works. How it has been going on forever.

Montreal makes sure its teams are ready by the end of august, baring injuries. There is a reason same applies with Igor, Marina or any other coach in the world. BUT RUSSIA.

And BTW, Russia's ice dance will go better when those coach put their ego on hold and join forces. I would force Kustarova and Krylova to join forces, to start building a huge school with many teachers of high caliber.
 

Michalle

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1,669
I love seeing these programs without the costumes, in every discipline. It's barely September, it would be boring if these programs were already exactly what we are going to be seeing multiple times throughout the next several months.
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,323
I love seeing these programs without the costumes, in every discipline. It's barely September, it would be boring if these programs were already exactly what we are going to be seeing multiple times throughout the next several months.
But the programs DO change in a season. There, they showed unfinished programs, with skater barely fit. It's ice dance.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,338
Montreal makes sure its teams are ready by the end of august, baring injuries. There is a reason same applies with Igor, Marina or any other coach in the world. BUT RUSSIA.
Montreal vs Russia, the two skating nations, lol.

Where’s the proof they are all GP ready by the end of August? Have all the Montreal teams been publicly lined up to skate programs one after the other in August before?

I mostly find the relentless Eteri worshipping a bit much, but ice dance is even worse as almost every team in the world is in Montreal and there’s no where to go to avoid the coach worship in this discipline.
 
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barbarafan

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4,271
Montreal vs Russia, the two skating nations, lol.

Where’s the proof they are all GP ready by the end of August? Have all the Montreal teams been publicly lined up to skate programs one after the other in August before?
Summer skate is usually first or 2nd week of August. Quebec teams usually go there and quite a few other teams travel from Ontario to participate as well as scattered teams from the rest of Canada. Usually some foreign teams training in MTL participate as well to get feedback on their programs. Minto competition (in Ontario) is held in July and Quebec teams often go. These 2 competitions plus a BC competition often determine GP spots so is taken seriously.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
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1,338
In that period you had 2 of the best teams in history Virtue & Moir and Davis & White. As well as the innovations of Pechelat & Bourzat.
Yeah I would agree. Each year was a big battle with the two top teams with differing strengths showing different styles of programs from year to year. Hardly a walk in the park for either team who had to show the maximum to win. And a constant struggle for bronze. Probably the era that really cemented athleticism as a requirement for dance.

No idea why that quad would warrant such dismissal. Unless you hate V/M so much you want to erase them from history. At least it was a quad with actual competition for the world titles.
 
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casken

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10,482
The idea that Davis and Whites programs where anything to get excited about, other than maybe the Bollywood and Giselle SDs, and their Tango FD, is just... no. I can't with that.

The majority of their ODs/SDs were unremarkable (the "Latin" SD was just bad and the 10.00s they got still ranks among the worst ice dance judging I've ever seen), and the rest of their FDs were all choreographic retreads. The Tango FD was the only real "dance" they had in the sense that it was fully choreographed and not just the usual Sphilband/Zueva-isms parading as holds and connecting movements. I gave them a lot of credit for that dance.

But overall, the fact that they were so successful shows just how weak that era was, and how strong US politics in dance became. (See Chock and Bates walking into 9.50+ PCS and almost winning worlds in 2015 post D&W's retirement.)

V&M are absolutely one of the greatest teams of all time, but the only FD they did that did justice to their talent level was the Carmen one, and even that one didn't go as far as it could choreographically.

Probably the era that really cemented athleticism as a requirement for dance.
To me it represents the era of dance becoming element-ized at the expense of the actual dance, when recycling moves from past FDs, once considered a huge "no no" suddenly became ok, (A team shortening a FD into a OD like V&M did would be considered lazy) and the rise of what I call "Malibu Stacy" ice dance.

So yeah, there are reasons not to love that era of dance.
 

PRlady

Gutting it out
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32,571
Yeah I would agree. Each year was a big battle with the two top teams with differing strengths showing different styles of programs from year to year. Hardly a walk in the park for either team who had to show the maximum to win. And a constant struggle for bronze. Probably the era that really cemented athleticism as a requirement for dance.

No idea why that quad would warrant such dismissal. Unless you hate V/M so much you want to erase them from history. At least it was a quad with actual competition for the world titles.
I think of that quad on FSU as The Quad of the Really Sour Europeans.
 

vanillashake

Active Member
Messages
268
2010-14 was both the apex of Detroit dominance and the quad that broke Detroit forever.
Which to me was great too. I loved them finally rewarded for years of climbing and hard work but decades of Zoueva/ Sphilband dominance would be barf worthy. So it was the perfect compromise.
 

Dobre

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5,560
I think there's something really fun and ballsy about the way the athletes all turn up and exhibit.
They did not all turn up & exhibit. I'm not sure I can think of a season in which they all turned up & exhibited in both the short & the free.
 

VGThuy

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29,854
So, is there anything more with the Carol Lane/Marina Zueva collab or was it just a Piper/Paul thing where they wanted to spend some time with Marina? Carol Lane must be super trusting considering Marina's history.

I also agree that 2010-2014 wasn't my favorite era of ice dance either. I mean I do appreciate the aspects of D/W's skating and I think V/M are on my top 2 fave ice dance teams of all time, but even that period wasn't the best of what V/M could have provided for a myriad of reasons, and I think they were underappreciated for what they were doing whereas D/W were rewarded for seriously pushing elementized ice dance. I don't think there was much actual dance during that period. I think that's why I much prefer the following (most recent) quad by far. I felt we saw much more dancing then and now (even from V/M).
 
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allezfred

Baby Jolly Man Face
Staff member
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55,013
No idea why that quad would warrant such dismissal.
Shite Zueva/Shpilband programmes that almost everyone copied. :p

The biggest indictment of that period was at 2012 Worlds where a pairs team (Savchenko/Szolkowy) had a better dance programme than any of the ice dancers.
 

Marta24

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,380
IMO, it`s a pretty exciting time to be an ice dance fan. There are so many great teams in Seniors right now. I have been watching the JGP the last 3 weeks and there are also some very interesting Junior Ice Dance teams coming up the ranks in the next few years. Although, I could do with a little less emo dancing, ice dance is still my favorite discipline and the part of the competitions I`m most excited about.
 

Colonel Green

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2,552
So, is there anything more with the Carol Lane/Marina Zueva collab or was it just a Piper/Paul thing where they wanted to spend some time with Marina? Carol Lane must be super trusting considering Marina's history.
There hasn't been any background as to the genesis of that, so thus far I think that was a one-time thing.
 

chantilly

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,539
Yeah. At least when people "copy" Gadbois, it's something worth copying. I mean they really helped bring actual dance back into this sport.
Yeah, not really. The rules of Ice dance relaxed and changed post 2014 which allowed more freedom of movement and construction of programmes.
 

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