The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Bigbird]

Its easier to control and motivate people with citizenship problems.

The aggravation and the potential utter futility and the demands of COP aren't enough?

 

[Dobre]

Poor Igor. Dancers everywhere, but not enough passports between them.

He doesn't need any pity, IMO. I'd assume he helped actively put these international teams together. It's one of his strengths--the ability to match up athletes from different parts of the world. (If I were an athlete looking for a partner from another country--someone like Pogrebinsky, maybe?--then I would seriously consider going to Igor. It's not an accident that he has these teams). The teams have the advantage of 1. a high-quality partner with strong basics, 2. international connections, and 3. options for where they can compete.

And the teams have the flip side: the delays and lack of certainty that come with forming an international partnership. They chose this, with the advantages and the disadvantages. But really, Carreira & Ponomarenko and Nguyen & Kolesnik are more likely to be at their best in 2026 rather than 2022. (N&K are quite likely to stay in juniors for quite a while). So there's a balance. You want to apply as soon as you can and do your best to obtain citizenship as soon as you can. Because it is possible that Carreira & Ponomarenko, for example, could make the team then. You just can't know. But that doesn't mean 2026 is not or should not be the main goal here and worth forming the partnership. Of course, if one of those teams wishes to choose another route, they can. And that also would come with consequences.

Dima will be 30 before next season, that is a bit late to be starting again with a new partner!
That's the age in dance when most teams retire.

It's true. I wouldn't expect it. Such a huge endeavor to start over, even with another top-level athlete. But if Soloviev wants to keep going, he can. Evan is the same age and planning to go 4 more years. Vanagas and Dean competed at the Olympics when they were @ 36 years old. It would be quite a leap of faith to start over. (It was something of a miracle Soloviev came back from the knee injury already). But Elena doesn't have a partner now so she has nothing to lose. I think, though, that since Ilinykh & Soloviev haven't made any statements themselves about returning, we might just as well enjoy any clips we have of them skating in shows. She is actually the one I think might be happier right now skating professionally than when she was competing. If they decide to return to competitive skating as a new team, it's a huge commitment from both of them. And they'll tell us about it.

 

[mollymgr]

Igor has a strong legacy of ice dance teams that he coached over the years. I don’t think his new teams can top the accolades of the past. Ice dance always goes in trends.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe by the time his skaters get citizenship, Igor will be "in" again.

 

[Dobre]

Igor has a strong legacy of ice dance teams that he coached over the years. I don’t think his new teams can top the accolades of the past. Ice dance always goes in trend.

Well, there's no guarantee anyone can top many accolades of the past. The discipline is deeper, more popular, and more international these days. (And I hope the current issues with the scoring system will be rebalanced so that young teams from around the world will continue to feel that with hard work they can control their own destinies and that joining the discipline is worth the endeavor). I happen to love Avonley Nguyen, though. The teams of today and the future will have to make their own accolades.

 

[MarieM]

Maybe by the time his skaters get citizenship, Igor will be "in" again.

Nah I don't think so. He enjoyed 10 years which is big. Ask Dubova, Tarassova, Linitchuk. Montreal is enjoying it, will last till next olys then another "coach" will take the limelight. That's how it works.

 

[Dobre]

Tarasova had dance teams at the top from 1981-2002 (21 years). Linichuck & Karponosov had teams at the top from 1993 to 2010 (17 years). Belbin & Agosto won their first Major International in '04 and Chock & Bates medaled last in '16 (12 years). The "popularity" span for these coaches, of course, is shorter; but for clarity's sake.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Igor seems at peace with his situation and teams. He seems to understand the cycles and doesn't get too worked up. He also understands that teams need to try new things and he doesn't seem to take it personally. Just my take on his comments. I like Igor and always have

 

[VGThuy]

Nah I don't think so. He enjoyed 10 years which is big. Ask Dubova, Tarassova, Linitchuk. Montreal is enjoying it, will last till next olys then another "coach" will take the limelight. That's how it works.

I think IJS had a lot to do with what happened with Linichuk and Tarasova (that and Tarasova just taking a step back as she got older). Dubova self-destructed during the Bourne/Kraatz days. Linichuk had a last hurrah with DomShabs but it was clear she didn't get IJS the way Igor did.

 

[mollymgr]

This is ice dance we are talking about. Never say never.

 

[PRlady]

Any minute now a retired ice dancer or freestyle skater with a talent for teaching could do what Patch and Marie or John and Silvia did. No one saw those guys as the coaches of the future when they were skating. Meryl or Tessa or Meghan or Patrick or Katia or whomever could establish the next Montreal.

 

[MarieM]

Any minute now a retired ice dancer or freestyle skater with a talent for teaching could do what Patch and Marie or John and Silvia did. No one saw those guys as the coaches of the future when they were skating. Meryl or Tessa or Meghan or Patrick or Katia or whomever could establish the next Montreal.

That's what I meant. It all has to do with "getting" the book and having politiks working its way.
Montreal has all, and they do understand it's not gonna last forever

 

[Dobre]

The "next" is likely to already have a talented dance team in the pipeline.

 

[Lara111]

The "next" is likely to already have a talented dance team in the pipeline.

Then it is Russians probably...

 

[Dobre]

Ah, that you never know.

 

[Lara111]

Ah, that you never know.

Well, you kind of see the talent and potential. I have noticed P/C first time I saw them when they were not even top 10.

 

[Dobre]

Sure. But there's a lot of talent and potential out there at a wide variety of ages. We all see different athletes with it in different geographic locations. None of us see all of it around the world. Which ones are going to climb all the way to the top, we don't know. Grishuk was with Linichuk for years before Linichuk & Karponosov become the place to go. And Bestemianova & Bukin with Tarasova. And some of Igor's young teams. Also, it helps if there's a need for a strong dance coach in a particular geographic location, at least some potential for bilingual coaching, and a strong coaching team with both technical expertise and a good in-house choreographer. Maybe all those pieces aren't together yet at the "next" place, but there's quite a good chance that whoever it is is already coaching dance.

 

[puglover]

One of the reasons Gadbois has become so strong is because they, like many of their skaters, offer the complete package. Patrice is reputed to be a genius with the technical side and COP, Marie France, Romain and Sam C. each bring special skills in program construction and performance. They have good coaches working with their younger teams like PD. And the coaches appear to get along which seems critical for their students to also help create a positive environment. It seemed Marina and Igor had that in Canton, at least to some degree, before the split. I agree with Dobre that with the current demands in ice dance that it takes a strong, cohesive team for multi-team, long-term results.

 

[Lara111]

One of the reasons Gadbois has become so strong is because they, like many of their skaters, offer the complete package. Patrice is reputed to be a genius with the technical side and COP, Marie France, Romain and Sam C. each bring special skills in program construction and performance. They have good coaches working with their younger teams like PD. And the coaches appear to get along which seems critical for their students to also help create a positive environment. It seemed Marina and Igor had that in Canton, at least to some degree, before the split. I agree with Dobre that with the current demands in ice dance that it takes a strong, cohesive team for multi-team, long-term results.

Positive environment is a key. Many coaches are lucking it and do not want to focus on it. Athletes especially young need a positive environment for their development.

 

[Cayuse]

Positive environment is a key. Many coaches are lucking it and do not want to focus on it. Athletes especially young need a positive environment for their development.

WISA! A lot of fun and positive youth development happening at the lower levels.

 

[Dobre]

Yuri Vlasenko just reappeared--on the entry list for U.S. Nationals. He is signed up to compete in senior dance with Lydia Erdman. I enjoyed watching her & Schepetov's SD in 2015-16. I'm glad to see she is skating.

 

[The Observer]

[QUOTE="dramagrrl, post: 5471347, member: 11"]I have also heard that a lot of the split had to do with the adults in Paul's life basically convincing him that he was so much better than Vanessa that he would achieve quicker and higher success with another partner......

Well, that grass wasn't quite so green![/QUOTE]

Well, actually, things have worked out pretty well for Gilles & Poirier.

Top 10 team in the World -- as high as 6th twice. (higher than Paul finished with Vanessa, which was 7th).

Multiple GP medals.

Multiple National Championship medals.

I'm not sure if G&P will ever be on the World podium, but it's been a successful partnership.

 

[mollymgr]

For success, there needs to be a good balance of number of teams per coach, and the number of elite teams training at the same rink. No matter how “amazing” this may seem in theory, over time some teams will always feel or get less attention. It is just a normal consequence of too much of something ending up being bad in the long run. When there is imbalance people are likely to move to other places to find their happy medium. That’s how things tend to evolve, and it is not unique to ice dance.

 

[Lara111]

WISA! A lot of fun and positive youth development happening at the lower levels.

WISA is losing many young and talented

 

[TanithandBenFan]

WISA is losing many young and talented

Who left?

 

[Dobre]

As of Sectionals as far as I could tell, Wheaton has . . .

Seniors:
-McNamara & Carpenter (WS#13)
-The Parsons (WS#14)

Juniors:
-The Greens (Easterns #1)
-Gropman & Somerville (Midwesterns #1)
-Cesanek & Yehorov (Pacifics #1)

Novices:
-Tkachenko & Kiliakov (Easterns #1)
-Lin & Sletten (Easterns #2)
-Cain & Davydov (Easterns #3)

Intermediates:
-Sensenbrenner & Sperry (Pacifics #2)

Juveniles:
-Ilin & Cain (Easterns #1)
-Stapert & Korotcov (Easterns #3)
-Monti & Monti (Easterns #4)

Who left?

Emma retired. (Gunter & Wein-Jr. Nationals #6)

I've not read if anyone else has left. Amoia & Becker (Jr. Nationals #10) and Bratti & Usanov (new this year) have split. Amoia & Bratti are listed on IPS. Both list Novak & Kiliakov as their coaches. Bratti's profile says she will not relocate. I haven't seen anything posted on FSU related to the three guys. There was an intermediate team, Dietrich & Urano (new this year), that withdrew from sectionals. I assume we don't know why.

 

[MarieM]

WISA has no taste whatsoever as far as choreography is concerned. They need help

 

[oleada]

WISA has no taste whatsoever as far as choreography is concerned. They need help

Yup. The skaters all seem like lovely kids, and technically sound, but they are totally lacking in any it- factor and the choreography is terrible. They are dance fridge breaks, IMO.

 

[Dobre]

To each their own taste.

But this reminded me to try searching Ilin & Cain's juvenile FD to see if it might be up now after Sectionals. Found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvEHIcX7t-o

Can't you just picture these two munchkins watching last year's Olympic Latin RDs and demanding to skate like that? (Starts at the 50 second mark).

 

[kittysk8ts]

Russian Nats RD results

1. S/K 84.01 (Whoah!)
2. S/B 81.95
3. Z/G 73.37