The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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TBH, the best thing about G&F's success this season is seeing a happy Barbara Fusar-Poli, not to mention seeing a a whole new generation of ice dance fans getting to know who she is, other than the "death stare" lady.
 
Remember they won it at SC over H/D :). I don't know if the judges really love their FD or if they really dislike H/D's which they've recently changed. The mysteries of mysteries within our lovely ice dance competition. Haha..

The judges like H/D's program just fine. The GOE was massive and the PCS were very high. Keep in mind that they lost two full points on that spin level - the margin would have been bigger.

Well, they had the lowest base value of all the teams in the FD (level 2 spin and level 3s on both step sequences). Their levels in the RD went backwards too (to a level 1 and level 2).

BUT with lower levels in the rhythm dance they actually got a seasons best. So that's the scoring system for you. Gadbois know how to hack the judging system - that's their speciality.

The problem with ice dance is that not hitting any of the key points in the pattern dance is not the same thing as electing to do a perfect triple over a shaky quad. You're just not doing the pattern dance properly and you're making mistakes. The scoring system does not work for dance.
You note that they had level 3 steps, but none of the other teams were getting level 4 steps. S/K has 3/2 on the one-foot and 3 on the other one, G/F had 2/3 on the one-foot and 3 on the other one, S/B had all 3s but 4/3 on the twizzles, H/B had 2/4 on the one-foot and 2 on the other one, and Z/G had 2/3 on the one-foot and 3 on the other one.

So H/D and S/B actually tied for the best levels on steps here. The reason H/D are behind in BV is entirely the spin level, which cost them a full two points.
 
But isn't disregarding the levels an incredibly risky approach? Even with the new way scoring works? S/B seemed to suffer here from a tougher panel and judges that weren't so keen to boost them. Or perhaps just from meeting all their strongest competitors for the first time?

And with H/D as well: They've left the impression here that S/K are gaining ground on them. They are the reigning World silver medalists and SinKats were out injured/didn't even make it to Worlds. How is that good for them? They should have pulverized the competition here tbh.

And you could also argue that G/F made the podium on the strength of their levels. So it's not like they have become totally meaningless.

Sinkats also have a skater with two olympic medals. We're all crazy if we think that does not play into this. Sinkats have always had the potential and in other competitions previously have scored close and better than Maddie and Zach.

Anyway, I was very very pleased with Maddie and Zach's performance at this comp. They skated strong and well. No mistakes really. They looked confident and their power/edges were on full display I stated earlier, in another thread about how Maddie/Zach's skating skills prowess would be on full display in GPF. Even though the judges tried to keep some of pcs scores tight, I'm sure their skills were visibly better than the other teams.

Also, I like the changes to the lifts and spins in both programs. The twizzles in the RD were excellent. I have to say the FD continues to grow and I expect it will be excellent by 4cc and Worlds.

G/F skated great and I think they were lowballed on pcs. They should have scored in the 55 points range in the FD.

S/B were over-scored again. But this time being on the same ice as Sinkats and Hubbell/Donahue did not bold well for them. It was obvious to me that Alexandra Stepanova was the weakest skater at this competition. I repeat weakest skater, not performer.

H/B were lowballed. They looked good at this competition.
 
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Sinkats also have a skater with two olympic medals. We're all crazy if we think that does not play into this. Sinkats have always had the potential and in other competitions previously have scored close and better than Maddie and Zach.

Anyway, I was very very pleased with Maddie and Zach's performance at this comp. They skated strong and well. No mistakes really. They looked confident and their power/edges were on full display I stated earlier, in another thread about how Maddie/Zach's skating skills prowess would be on full display in GPF. Even though the judges tried to keep some of pcs scores tight, I'm sure their skills were visibly better than the other teams.

Also, I like the changes to the lifts and spins in both programs. The twizzles in the RD were excellent. I have to say the FD continues to grow and I expect it will be excellent by 4cc and Worlds.

G/F skated great and I think they were lowballed on pcs. They should have scored in the 55 points range in the FD.

S/B were over-scored again. But this time being on the same ice as Sinkats and Hubbell/Donahue did not bold well for them. It was obvious to me that Alexandra Stepanova was the weakest skater at this competition. I repeat weakest skater, not performer.

H/B were lowballed. They looked good at this competition.

Alexandra Stepanova may be the weakest skater in the competition in your opinion, yet the mistake that probably cost them the podium came from Bukin on the twizzles :shuffle:. They lost a level and a lot of GOE there.
 
Alexandra Stepanova may be the weakest skater in the competition in your opinion, yet the mistake that probably cost them the podium came from Bukin on the twizzles :shuffle:. They lost a level and a lot of GOE there.

Yes, S/B got 7.44 for the twizzles, S/K got 9.66, that is 2.20 points difference, that would've increased their score to 198.82, which is still less than S/K's 201.37, but it would've been enough to beat the Italians for the bronze.
 
Ok here we go for the GPF, lots of stuff going on there. I didn't expect to enjoy the FDs as much as I did, at least the first 3.
H/D: much better this time around, at least it's much more improved than the RD for me where they need to review their interpretation, way too exaggerated, close to caricatural between his outfit and her mouth biting antics. However, the FD, I like the music edits much more even though the Des'ree is still going on for too long. But the first part is much more OTT which fits this soundtrack and movie better. I was still hoping for a JULİEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET though that's how powerful of an influencer Cha has become with his LP :D They were clearly into it too. The 2nd starts all right but then drags on and gets a bit boring. Still, I can now see this improving significantly by Worlds. It won't be their best FD but much better than I expected.
S/K: ok what is going on there ? I'm starting to seriously loving this team and if he keeps on with his good behavior looking like he cares a great deal about his partner, I might start ubering them. I still can't believe it because I have never enjoyed him even (or especially:saint:) when he was paired with Ilinykh. Actually, he is much better paired with Sinitsina, she might not have the same level of SS as Elena but their connection looks more genuine and stable. As for the FD, I really enjoyed it a lot this time around especially the first part. The 2nd is really OTT arm flailing but they carry it well and interpret the heck out of it. If they can keep this up and be consistent, they are gonna be such a strong threat.
F/G: yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss I love them too. They are much better skater than Capellini/Lanotte, always thought so tbh. But they have come out of their shell and C/L's shadow to be really good performers with two solid programs this year. Also, people who saw them live could confirm, but they looked like they were flying out there during the FD. Lovely program and I don't even like musicals. They have such difficult entries in their elements especially their twizzles. If they keep this up, Gilles/Poirier have something to worry about tbh because as much as I like G/P FD, I think the Italians are way more solid technically this season and I'm starting to prefer their Tango.
S/B: well I always found them underwhelming technically and this just confirmed it. I think people were freaking out about them this year just because they finally had programs which didn't suck with absolutely horrendous and weird music choices like Lieberstraum and all their previous programs really. But the skating underneath hasn't improved. They are just packaged like they mean business especially her and to look like they finally not coming straight out of Juniors. Reality caught up with them here.
Z/G: much improved especially the first half of the FD. I really enjoyed that, Tiffany looked so solid in that section but then something went off during the spin and they never recovered. They were back to their shaky self. Lack of training and her knees I guess because she looked like all her energy was gone. I still think mid point during the spin there should be a music change, it goes on for too long. But that first part, now take note S/B, that is how you do subtle sultriness and blues.
H/B: he is very good but they just look small even compared with the Italians who are as small I believe but look like they skate much faster. She is just not that good I'm afraid. It looks like he can literally skate circles around her. But Sinitsina did catch up so let's see. They also should go for funkier programs to stand out more. I did like their hip hop SD a lot at the time. They could ride the Disco Wave next year.
 
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Ok here we go for the GPF, lots of stuff going on there. I didn't expect to enjoy the FDs as much as I did, at least the first 3.
H/D: much better this time around, at least it's much more improved than the RD for me where they need to review their interpretation, way too exaggerated, close to caricatural between his outfit and her mouth biting antics. However, the FD, I like the music edits much more even though the Des'ree is still going on for too long. But the first part is much more OTT which fits this soundtrack and movie better. I was still hoping for a JULİEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET though that's how powerful of an influencer Cha has become with his LP :D They were clearly into it too. The 2nd starts all right but then drags on and gets a bit boring. Still, I can now see this improving significantly by Worlds. It won't be their best FD but much better than I expected.
S/K: ok what is going on there ? I'm starting to seriously loving this team and if he keeps on with his good behavior looking like he cares a great deal about his partner, I might start ubering them. I still can't believe it because I have never enjoyed him even (or especially:saint:) when he was paired with Ilinykh. Actually, he is much better paired with Sinitsina, she might not have the same level of SS as Elena but their connection looks more genuine and stable. As for the FD, I really enjoyed it a lot this time around especially the first part. The 2nd is really OTT arm flailing but they carry it well and interpret the heck out of it. If they can keep this up and be consistent, they are gonna be such a strong threat.
F/G: yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss I love them too. They are much better skater than Capellini/Lanotte, always thought so tbh. But they have come out of their shell and C/L's shadow to be really good performers with two solid programs this year. Also, people who saw them live could confirm, but they looked like they were flying out there during the FD. Lovely program and I don't even like musicals. They have such difficult entries in their elements especially their twizzles. If they keep this up, Gilles/Poirier have something to worry about tbh because as much as I like G/P FD, I think the Italians are way more solid technically this season and I'm starting to prefer their Tango.
S/B: well I always found them underwhelming technically and this just confirmed it. I think people were freaking out about them this year just because they finally had programs which didn't suck with absolutely horrendous and weird music choices like Lieberstraum and all their previous programs really. But the skating underneath hasn't improved. They are just packaged like they mean business especially her and to look like they finally not coming straight out of Juniors. Reality caught up with them here.
Z/G: much improved especially the first half of the FD. I really enjoyed that, Tiffany looked so solid in that section but then something went off during the spin and they never recovered. They were back to their shaky self. Lack of training and her knees I guess because she looked like all her energy was gone. I still think mid point during the spin there should be a music change, it goes on for too long. But that first part, now take note S/B, that is how you do subtle sultriness and blues.
H/B: he is very good but they just look small even compared with the Italians who are as small I believe but look like they skate much faster. She is just not that good I'm afraid. It looks like he can literally skate circles around her. But Sinitsina did catch up so let's see. They also should go for funkier programs to stand out more. I did like their hip hop SD a lot at the time. They could ride the Disco Wave next year.


I agree with all this and again congratulations to the medalists :cheer2:. I just pray this isn't going to be the sum total of the competition for the next four years because please this was sort of tepid.

I must say after reviewing the performances I was really gutted for S/B I hope they get things together for their Nationals. How do you get a basic level for the RT though?

Well done to SinKats for getting their programs right from the beginning and keeping it together.

As for H/D I'm not loving these program remakes, either of them, maybe they will grow on me?

Here ends the first act, let's see how things pan out in Act 2. :)
 
I agree with all this and again congratulations to the medalists :cheer2:. I just pray this isn't going to be the sum total of the competition for the next four years because please this was sort of tepid.

I must say after reviewing the performances I was really gutted for S/B I hope they get things together for their Nationals. How do you get a basic level for the RT though?

Well done to SinKats for getting their programs right from the beginning and keeping it together.

As for H/D I'm not loving these program remakes, either of them, maybe they will grow on me?

Here ends the first act, let's see how things pan out in Act 2. :)

It always feels weak and empty at the start of an Olympic cycle.

You can't see how it will possibly get any better, but sure as eggs are eggs, somehow teams step up, and by the Olympics the competition is hot and the top 10 is looking crowded once again!
 
It always feels weak and empty at the start of an Olympic cycle.

You can't see how it will possibly get any better, but sure as eggs are eggs, somehow teams step up, and by the Olympics the competition is hot and the top 10 is looking crowded once again!

I'll take your word for it. Because man, the programs in warm up group 1 were so much more interesting and engaging than those in group 2. But, I'm gonna be optimistic. Happy Sunday ya'll!!
 
Stepanova/Bukin would have been right in there if not for a few errors that they made so they shouldn't get too discouraged by the result. They came into the Final with a lot of momentum, however, they also didn't have to face a seeded team in either of their GP events. Their path to the final was among the easiest. IMO Sinitsina/Katsalapov should continue to win the battle for Russian supremacy if both teams are clean. Edges before Os [O-faces]! Stepanova/Bukin have cleverly choreographed programs, which barely have any moments of unison and rely on posing and striking positions rather than dancing. They are really good at performing; now raise the skating skills to match, please. That being said, the judges seem perfectly happy to reward them with the same PCS as teams that have much better skating skills so if they hit their levels, they very well may defeat any of the teams at the GP Final. We really need a lot more differentiation between the PCS marks: no more corridor!

Sinitsina/Katsalapov are a revelation this season. He is skating like I've never seen and she is in the same league now. Their RD is right on point as a tango and their FD, while a bit boring, is beautiful with strong edges and amazing twizzles. They could pass Hubbell/Donohue if they keep this up and the Russian fed chooses to support them.

Hubbell/Donohue: I like the changes they made to the FD. It will probably never be one of my favorite programs for them, but it's starting to work. And really, how many times do we whine about skaters staying in the same wheelhouse? This is a very different program for H/D, and I'm glad they are branching out. I may be less glad if they fall off the podium at worlds, though. :P And the continued level problem is worrisome. Get that sorted, Marie Universe.

Hawayek/Baker had a much improved performance in the FD. The RD still needs a lot of work, mostly in her performance level. Depending on if Chock/Bates are truly back, H/B may be under tremendous pressure at worlds to keep 3 spots for the U.S. Hope they can rise to that challenge. Also looking ahead to next season, I wonder if they could turn their Austin Powers exhibition into an RD or otherwise do something fun! They pull that off nicely, and they're old enough now that they shouldn't have to go the serious route to be taken seriously.

Simply over the moon for the Italians. They were a technically stronger team than Cappellini/LaNotte for some time, and this season with the Italy #1 mantle, they are surpassing my wildest expectations. Love their packaging. In fact, they have my favorite set of programs. Both the RD and the FD are excellent vehicles to showcase their skating. I wonder if it's too much to hope for a Euros medal?

Zagorski/Guerrero: They continue to show improvement in their dancing as the season progresses. I hope they can skate that FD full-out at Euros. Would love to see that and curious to see how the judges would mark it if it didn't have little errors. Also, S/B and S/K better (should) earn the 3rd Russian dance spot back at worlds!
 
Vaitsekhovskaya interviewed Katsalapov after the FD at GPF
https://rsport.ria.ru/20181209/1547682406.html

- It was a technical error on the entrance (wrong grab), so Nikita could do all 6 rotations, they knew they won't get 4th level on it even before they finished executing it. They wanted to change it a month ago (they have option 'B' as well), but decided to keep it and just to train more. Everything was ok at practices, so the mistake here was an unpleasant surprise for them.
- He was also asked about a visible change in his skating this season, and Nikita answered that he just started enjoying figure skating a lot again
- I know that it was important for Aleksandra Stepanova and Ivan Bukin not to place behind you here in Vancouver. Was the competition inside the country important for you as well?
- We didn't think about such things. We felt comfortable going into the competition, as we knew that we trained hard and improved with each competition. Of course, competition helps a lot, but I can honestly say that we didn't have an aim to place ahead of someone here, to get higher score than other teams. We have our own path and are following it.

--
I haven't seen any interviews with Stepanova/Bukin yet
 
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So about now would be a great time to have a top dance technical specialist on with a good interviewer to help explain what they really want, step by step.

A couple of years ago I asked Fabrizio Pedrazzini if he was willing to do an interview for GS, to help explain the judging in ID, scoring system, levels etc. and he agreed. He's a technical specialist in ID and RAI commentator. Unfortunately, they (GS) didn't follow with it and nothing was done. Sigh.
 
Ok here we go for the GPF, lots of stuff going on there. I didn't expect to enjoy the FDs as much as I did, at least the first 3.
H/D: much better this time around, at least it's much more improved than the RD for me where they need to review their interpretation, way too exaggerated, close to caricatural between his outfit and her mouth biting antics. However, the FD, I like the music edits much more even though the Des'ree is still going on for too long. But the first part is much more OTT which fits this soundtrack and movie better. I was still hoping for a JULİEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET though that's how powerful of an influencer Cha has become with his LP :D They were clearly into it too. The 2nd starts all right but then drags on and gets a bit boring. Still, I can now see this improving significantly by Worlds. It won't be their best FD but much better than I expected.
S/K: ok what is going on there ? I'm starting to seriously loving this team and if he keeps on with his good behavior looking like he cares a great deal about his partner, I might start ubering them. I still can't believe it because I have never enjoyed him even (or especially:saint:) when he was paired with Ilinykh. Actually, he is much better paired with Sinitsina, she might not have the same level of SS as Elena but their connection looks more genuine and stable. As for the FD, I really enjoyed it a lot this time around especially the first part. The 2nd is really OTT arm flailing but they carry it well and interpret the heck out of it. If they can keep this up and be consistent, they are gonna be such a strong threat.
F/G: yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss I love them too. They are much better skater than Capellini/Lanotte, always thought so tbh. But they have come out of their shell and C/L's shadow to be really good performers with two solid programs this year. Also, people who saw them live could confirm, but they looked like they were flying out there during the FD. Lovely program and I don't even like musicals. They have such difficult entries in their elements especially their twizzles. If they keep this up, Gilles/Poirier have something to worry about tbh because as much as I like G/P FD, I think the Italians are way more solid technically this season and I'm starting to prefer their Tango.
S/B: well I always found them underwhelming technically and this just confirmed it. I think people were freaking out about them this year just because they finally had programs which didn't suck with absolutely horrendous and weird music choices like Lieberstraum and all their previous programs really. But the skating underneath hasn't improved. They are just packaged like they mean business especially her and to look like they finally not coming straight out of Juniors. Reality caught up with them here.
Z/G: much improved especially the first half of the FD. I really enjoyed that, Tiffany looked so solid in that section but then something went off during the spin and they never recovered. They were back to their shaky self. Lack of training and her knees I guess because she looked like all her energy was gone. I still think mid point during the spin there should be a music change, it goes on for too long. But that first part, now take note S/B, that is how you do subtle sultriness and blues.
H/B: he is very good but they just look small even compared with the Italians who are as small I believe but look like they skate much faster. She is just not that good I'm afraid. It looks like he can literally skate circles around her. But Sinitsina did catch up so let's see. They also should go for funkier programs to stand out more. I did like their hip hop SD a lot at the time. They could ride the Disco Wave next year.
I agree with what you said about H/D. Their interpretation in the beginning of their FD was too overwrought. I’m not sure what they trying to invoke in the audience but it made uncomfortable to be honest.
Thought people might find this interesting.

It's been noticed that Papadakis/Cizeron and Hawayek/Baker have the same identical one foot step sequence in their free dances.

Video comparison here: https://www.tumblr.com/video/illyria-and-her-pet/180943690743/500/

Credit to this blog

I wonder which team got this choreography first?
SMH. Really Gadbois? Maybe they thought nobody would notice including the teams lol.
 
Rewatching the GPF free dances, Guignard/Fabbri's character step is another of the standout versions of that element this year.

Really, that's one of the elements where the quality depends very heavily on the free program having a real story and/or a super-distinctive musical dance style that you can incorporate. When you don't you get something like Sinitsina/Katsalapov's, where they just kind of flail around.
 
S&K skated very well but their FD is a snoozefest, while the last part I find it plain silly.
Especially that movement she makes beating her head on his chest, after the choreo dance lift. :confused::slinkaway
This is the first time I've been able to make it through their whole FD and when she beats her head on his chest I was like what the hell is going on here. What is this supposed to mean 🤔
 
This is the first time I've been able to make it through their whole FD and when she beats her head on his chest I was like what the hell is going on here. What is this supposed to mean 🤔
I was both confused and :rofl: by this move at the test skates, especially since I was sitting on the 3rd row on the judges side - 'WTF was that' was my only question back than.
But somehow they made it work with time and I wasn't too distracted by it at France GP and GPF.

But without dramatic music and context, this move looks more like a defibrillator :lol:
 
I'm not concerned about Nikita's personality or even really his break-up with Ilinykh as much as I loved them, because bad break-ups happen in dance/pairs, but I am concerned about the rumor about what happened in New Jersey (?). However, I also don't want to judge purely based on a rumor without knowing whether there is substance behind it. It's very difficult because it has never been clear to me whether this is substantiated or not. Even posting about it makes me uncomfortable, but it is definitely holding me back when it comes to this team.

Sorry to circle back to old gossip, but what rumours are you talking about?
 
Sorry to circle back to old gossip, but what rumours are you talking about?
That they were kicked out of Canton because Nikita was supposedly abusive towards Viktoria.

I don't know how these rumors get started...Not commenting on whether it's true or not. I personally don't care if Nikita is an ass in real life or what he did or did not do. I am just there for his skating.
 
That they were kicked out of Canton because Nikita was supposedly abusive towards Viktoria.

I don't know how these rumors get started...Not commenting on whether it's true or not. I personally don't care if Nikita is an ass in real life or what he did or did not do. I am just there for his skating.

Thanks for filling me in and yikes...
 
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