The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

Icetigger

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Thought I would try asking this question one more time. Can someone explain how Popova & Mozgov earned a level 2 at Golden Spin on the first half of their pattern without any Ys? The protocol marking is:

1TR2+***

Per the small font below, * stands for "invalid element."

Video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBBkUcpg4RM

Pattern starts at the 40 second mark. He does a deep squat at one point, which I initially assumed was the problem but it is a ways into the pattern so I'm not sure if it is what led to no Y's or N's. (Maybe there's just a mistake in the way the protocol was marked? I mean, how can you have either an invalid element or three invalid keypoints and get a level 2?)
It's worth comparing with the way Gilles and Poirier's TR was marked. http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/gpcan2018/gpcan2018_IceDance_RD_Scores.pdf

One thing to note about Gilles Poirier's TR2 is that they get one key point but because of the interruption are automatically dropped a level. With P/M I suggest that the first TR was actually marked as having three key points (hence the three stars), but the level two is a similar reduction by one. Maybe the asterisking instead of the Ys is to do with someone not knowing how to note the key points when they don't then correlate to the level received?
 

starrynight

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An interview with the Polish team Plutowska/Flemin who are training in Montreal. Google translate works pretty well.
Thanks for that interesting article!

It actually answered a few questions I was wondering a few days ago about how Gadbois works:

You have to pay a lot for good coaches. The costs are big?
Jeremie:- It's expensive, but not like in Milan. Here we can choose different options, determine how many hours we want to work with trainers every day. For example, Papadakis and Cizeron only buy full sessions with trainers, and sometimes we go alone. It all depends on the financial possibilities of individual duos. If we have more money in a given month, we can buy extra hours with trainers. Importantly, we also know how much we pay each month and we do not have to worry about high bills. In Milan, we were sometimes surprised. We did not record hours spent on the ice, so we could never be sure what the costs would be. Travel is the biggest problem. Arriving at a competition from Canada to Europe is a big expense.
So a user pays system where you book in lessons in advance depending on how much you can afford and you can train on the ice without a lesson if you don't want to pay extra.

Also this on when Scott Moir came to offers some coaching advice (and took some liberties with Justyna - who I assume is Jeremie's off ice girlfriend?) :lol::lol::lol:

- I know you were mad at him ...
Jeremie:- It was very strange, because during the first meeting he put his hand on Justyna's face and ... he sniffed her. Maybe he wanted to charm her in this way, but I admit that for a moment I was jealous. I thought to myself: "I love you, you are a legend, but it's my woman ...". Of course, I'm joking, I have to admit that Scott is a great actor. Watching it in tandem with Tessa Virtue, you get the impression that it connects them more than just sport.
 
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sap5

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Thanks for that interesting article!

It actually answered a few questions I was wondering a few days ago about how Gadbois works:

You have to pay a lot for good coaches. The costs are big?
Jeremie:- It's expensive, but not like in Milan. Here we can choose different options, determine how many hours we want to work with trainers every day. For example, Papadakis and Cizeron only buy full sessions with trainers, and sometimes we go alone. It all depends on the financial possibilities of individual duos. If we have more money in a given month, we can buy extra hours with trainers. Importantly, we also know how much we pay each month and we do not have to worry about high bills. In Milan, we were sometimes surprised. We did not record hours spent on the ice, so we could never be sure what the costs would be. Travel is the biggest problem. Arriving at a competition from Canada to Europe is a big expense.
So a user pays system where you book in lessons in advance depending on how much you can afford.

Also this on when Scott Moir came to offers some coaching advice (and took some liberties with Justyna - who I assume is Jeremie's off ice girlfriend?) :lol::lol::lol:

- I know you were mad at him ...
Jeremie:- It was very strange, because during the first meeting he put his hand on Justyna's face and ... he sniffed her. Maybe he wanted to charm her in this way, but I admit that for a moment I was jealous. I thought to myself: "I love you, you are a legend, but it's my woman ...". Of course, I'm joking, I have to admit that Scott is a great actor. Watching it in tandem with Tessa Virtue, you get the impression that it connects them more than just sport.
I wonder why they didn’t ask what Justyna thought about it?
 

Bigbird

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My word, I've been swamped with work. I did not get a chance to watch G/F at GPF and I finally got a chance to. What a lovely FD? Why didn't they beat S/K's bland choreography? I find their skating skills are just as good and the innovation is through the roof. Wowza.
 

Dobre

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A few notes/reminders about this upcoming week/weekend:

-Min & Eaton are not on the list for Korean Nationals so I would assume we won't see this team this season.

-Chock & Bates are currently still on the list to return to competition for Mentor Torun Cup. (Hence we may finally learn what their music is for the RD).

-Popova & Mozgov, Wang & Liu, and Kaliszek & Spodyriev are also all scheduled for the same event.

-The junior dance event at Mentor Torun Cup is packed with 27 international junior dance teams signed up, including the Greens' second international this season, Polischuk & Shamraev's international debut (I think), Demougeot & Le Mercier, and Golubtsova & Belobrov.

Also of note:
-Per a poster at GS, Weaver & Poje have indeed been rotating between performing both their RD and FD on tour this season.
 

lauravvv

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My word, I've been swamped with work. I did not get a chance to watch G/F at GPF and I finally got a chance to. What a lovely FD? Why didn't they beat S/K's bland choreography? I find their skating skills are just as good and the innovation is through the roof. Wowza.
🤔 To me, Guignard/Fabbri's choreography is much blander. Both FDs are quite old fashioned, but Sinitsina/Katsalapov at least have some beautiful moments - elements and transitions - in their program. Where do you see the innovation that you are talking about in G/F's FD?

I hope you realize that the stationary lift they do both in their RD and FD and which many have been praising as really beautiful, special, and even innovative/original, has actually been done by Weaver/Poje for several seasons - https://youtu.be/adCJqsbDzLw (at around 0:56). Yes, Fabbri is sitting slightly lower in the lift and the rotation is a bit faster (probably due to Charlene's smaller heigth), but it's esentially the same lift. I don't know how people could forget it when it has been praised so much when W/P were doing it. That's probably beside the point, I thought about it only because people have been praising G/F's lift as something new and unique.
 

Bigbird

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🤔 To me, Guignard/Fabbri's choreography is much blander. Both FDs are quite old fashioned, but Sinitsina/Katsalapov at least have some beautiful moments - elements and transitions - in their program. Where do you see the innovation that you are talking about in G/F's FD?

I hope you realize that the stationary lift they do both in their RD and FD and which many have been praising as really beautiful, special, and even innovative/original, has actually been done by Weaver/Poje for several seasons - https://youtu.be/adCJqsbDzLw (at around 0:56). Yes, Fabbri is sitting slightly lower in the lift and the rotation is a bit faster (probably due to Charlene's smaller heigth), but it's esentially the same lift. I don't know how people could forget it when it has been praised so much when W/P were doing it. That's probably beside the point, I thought about it only because people have been praising G/F's lift as something new and unique.

Won't argue with you there as most times when I'm watching W/P I'm actually just crushing on Poje. Shameless I know. As for everything else our tastes just differ, I guess. I find myself counting the minutes when I watch S/Ks FD especially after the 2 -3 minute mark because most everything is as you rightly said old fashioned and in all honestly this is a light retreading of last years FD, just with different music and Nikita less frenetic. They do have nice lines, elegance and speed, but I find myself wanting for more after a bit. Their RD is much more engaging as a good vehicle for them. G/F just seem to have these lovely unexpected moments, I like the relationship they portray and I really like their skating, soft and powerful.
 

RoseRed

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I'm really enjoying G/F this year (much more than in the past), but they are not a team I would consider innovative. Their FD is entertaining, and I enjoy it more than S/K's, but I don't see innovation in it.
 

Bigbird

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I'm really enjoying G/F this year (much more than in the past), but they are not a team I would consider innovative. Their FD is entertaining, and I enjoy it more than S/K's, but I don't see innovation in it.
You know maybe innovation isn't the right word, entertaining was the better word.

No sneak peek at Madison and Evan yet? The suspense.....
 

Sylvia

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Papadakis posted an IG story over the weekend of some of the Gadbois skaters supporting Chock/Bates during a simulation run through of their program(s) that I thought was sweet. :)
 

SLIVER

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Chock and Bates RD 75.30. I like it 😄

https://youtu.be/cuCuT-8wXTE
Just revolting judging with corrupt judges from RUS, BLR, EST, UKR (what a bunch!) having the awful Polish team only 1 point behind C/B, 1 point!!
This is the team that were getting early 60s in their GP events, suddenly scoring 10 points more, she is an awful skater. The Estonian even had them ahead of C/B lol. If you watch the 2 progs, you need to make at least a 1.5 difference on every component at a minimum, yet the Poles were hitting the 9s! It would be funny if it wasn't so disgusting.
Of course Halina Poltorak was referee too, no comment...
Back to the topic, yes C/B looked good, it needs more mileage, they need to look at each other more and express it better but the composition of the prog is strong. They have more finesse than before.
 

Dobre

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Oh, move on. It's a homefield senior B.

Chock & Bates did fine for a debut skate, even with an all-but entirely former Soviet panel. They're here to get a run-through under their belt before Nationals, and they got that job done.

Kaliszek & Spodyriev know their marks have been in the 60's all season. (If we don't count the scary debut at Nebelhorn which is best forgotten).
 

Bigbird

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Oh, move on. It's a homefield senior B.

Chock & Bates did fine for a debut skate, even with an all-but entirely former Soviet panel. They're here to get a run-through under their belt before Nationals, and they got that job done.

Kaliszek & Spodyriev know their marks have been in the 60's all season. (If we don't count the scary debut at Nebelhorn which is best forgotten).
True agreed, its all hogwash. But man you're telling me there is only a one point difference between K/S and C/B? Well, I might be too scared to watch worlds. :wall::mitchell:
 

Dobre

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True agreed, its all hogwash. But man you're telling me there is only a one point difference between K/S and C/B?
No, I believe I was telling you that I'd anticipate a 5-10 point difference in the RD alone between K&S and C&B in a non-homefield event. And this before C&B have put in two more months of solid training & responding to the judging feedback they are getting here and going to get at U.S. Nationals in two weeks.
 

Bigbird

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No, I believe I was telling you that I'd anticipate a 5-10 point difference in the RD alone between K&S and C&B in a non-homefield event. And this before C&B have put in two more months of solid training & responding to the judging feedback they are getting here and going to get at U.S. Nationals in two weeks.
I just couldn't believe they'd be so brazen, Patrice's little smirk was telling. LOL.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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I'm not the most objective when it comes to K&S. I mean he has a nice body, but I never really got the appeal of the team as a whole. Even their Dirty Dancing wasn't creative or danced well. All they did was take the dance moves of the movie and did a bad version of it. It didn't really take any creativity as the rest of the elements looked like standard IJS ice dance elements.
 

Dobre

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IMO, their Dirty Dancing was great. There were three that season, and if you compare Kaliszek & Spodyriev's with Kalehanova & Palkhouski's (which I also liked) and Robledo & Fenero's, you can see how much K&S brought to the table. Of course, it stood out so well from the larger field because the style was different than what everyone else in seniors at Europeans and Worlds was doing rather than because of K&S's technical strengths. But it was a great program for them. Fear & Gibson have this year's Dirty Dancing.

To me, the most important thing here for Chock & Bates was to get the pattern. And I wasn't at all counting on them getting the two 3s because all of Dubreil & Lauzon's teams are bringing in Bs, 1s, and 2s. Two 3s on the pattern for a debut performance. It's good.
 

SLIVER

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Oh, move on. It's a homefield senior B.

Chock & Bates did fine for a debut skate, even with an all-but entirely former Soviet panel. They're here to get a run-through under their belt before Nationals, and they got that job done.

Kaliszek & Spodyriev know their marks have been in the 60's all season. (If we don't count the scary debut at Nebelhorn which is best forgotten).
So ‘a homefield B event’ justifies corruption and cheating? Wow...
This is a sport not a beauty pageant.
 

Bigbird

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I'm not the most objective when it comes to K&S. I mean he has a nice body, but I never really got the appeal of the team as a whole. Even their Dirty Dancing wasn't creative or danced well. All they did was take the dance moves of the movie and did a bad version of it. It didn't really take any creativity as the rest of the elements looked like standard IJS ice dance elements.
I really liked their Dirty Dancing it was a refreshing break from all that lyrical snot so to speak. It may not have been executed the best, but I liked it. :)
 

Bigbird

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So ‘a homefield B event’ justifies corruption and cheating? Wow...
This is a sport not a beauty pageant.
They should have been closer to the Chinese couple or C/B should have passed 80. LOL. It's just that it was so hilariously ridiculous, the scoring that is.:rofl:

Maybe that's why Dobre has just shaken it off, because its nonsense. And half of us know ice dance isn't really a sport but a beauty and popularity contest half the time. And I'm not really being sarcastic.
 

Dobre

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:rofl: Homefield scoring at a senior B is just not worth getting your panties in a twist, IMO. Not in Canada. Not in the U.S. Not in Russia. And not in Poland.

As fans, our reactions have no impact on scoring. I just like to look at the larger picture. As far as a debut RD performance for Chock & Bates goes, this was a perfectly decent one. It's almost 3 points higher than McNamara & Carpenter's SB (M&C have the highest RD score among the U.S. teams outside of Hubbell & Donohue). That's what C&B need heading into U.S. Nationals--just a solid set of scores that says they're in good shape and still top two.

As far as K&S go, again it's just a matter of perspective. All their head-to-head results this season say they would finish 7th at U.S. Nationals. But they represent Poland so they get to go to Europeans and Worlds and gather a lot of World Standing points as long as they are willing to put in the travel and competition hours, which they do a lot of. And they're a nice little team. I enjoy watching them. It's nice to have a team representing Poland. It's been a long time since Nowak & Kolasinski. Just . . . perspective.
 
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SLIVER

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:rofl: Homefield scoring at a senior B is just not worth getting your panties in a twist, IMO. Not in Canada. Not in the U.S. Not in Russia. And not in Poland.

As fans, our reactions have no impact on scoring. I just like to look at the larger picture. As far as a debut RD performance for Chock & Bates goes, this was a perfectly decent one. It's almost 3 points higher than McNamara & Carpenter's SB (M&C have the highest RD score among the U.S. teams outside of Hubbell & Donohue). That's what C&B need heading into U.S. Nationals--just a solid set of scores that says they're in good shape and still top two.

As far as K&S go, again it's just a matter of perspective. All their head-to-head results this season say they would finish 7th at U.S. Nationals. But they represent Poland so they get to go to Europeans and Worlds and gather a lot of World Standing points as long as they are willing to put in the travel and competition hours, which they do a lot of. And they're a nice little team. I enjoy watching them. It's nice to have a team representing Poland. It's been a long time since Nowak & Kolasinski. Just . . . perspective.
We will have to entirely agree to disagree. This is a sport and the judging should be done with integrity, every time, no exception. This result is beyond the pale and I couldn’t give a toss about C/B or their debut.
It’s a matter of respect to the athletes who dedicate their lives to it, their families that pour so much money and time into it too. We cannot have this sport taken seriously when it is accepted by everyone that an ex Soviet panel at an event in Poland decided to play house together and ‘so what it’s not a big deal’.
It’s this precise attitude that has let these behaviours ferment for years and made it acceptable and almost the norm.
There are World Wars going on, so in life perspective yes it is utterly irrelevant but not in the perspective of this sport or for these athletes.
As a side note, yes I agree with the poster above, the Chinese couple were better, she has far superior skating skills to Kaliszek
 

Lara111

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To be honest I do not think C/B were even that great. I am not sure why people are so surprised that they are so close to C/S. C/S were good for what they are at this event.
 
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