Russian women news & updates, 2021-22 season

[Frau Muller]

Actually, I do think Scott has a point. In terms of news availability, internet groups for figure skating, competitions being streamed, etc fans of figure skating can now in 2021 easily research skating events, watch them livestreamed, etc. That was not available in 1991, which you should well remember, Max.

ITA, certainly in the US. For ex, I just found on YouTube & watched the international feed of the 1992 Olympics ladies figure skating, showing all competitors. I didn’t realize how many wonderful skaters were chacked by CBS...only 11 of 23-24 were shown... but they had the decency of showing Karen Preston who, IMO, had the most perfect and delightfully musical skate of the night.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

I posted this in the TTW thread and thought it would be appropriate in this thread as well.

I found an interesting interview of Kamila Valieva for Russian ballet magazine La Personne:

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Kamila Valieva’s interview for Russian ballet magazine La Personne​

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theskatingtimes.com​

An interesting excerpt: ""
When you were preparing Bolero, who were you inspired by during the preparation, did you watch the production of Bejart or other choreographers?

Of course, the first thing I did was find and watch the skaters’ programs set to Bolero: Jayne Torvill / Christopher Dean; Tatiana Navka / Roman Kostomarov; Carolina Kostner; Elizaveta Tuktamysheva; Evgenia Tarasova / Vladimir Morozov.

Then there were ballet performances with the best dancers in the world: Maya Plisetskaya; Diana Vishneva; Sylvie Guillem.

All of them amaze with their energy and passion. Bejart said that Bolero is a story of desire.

But my free skate is completely different.""

I think Valieva's Bolero is a masterpiece work. Kamila is a modern dance artist. And she is the best skater in the world at this art, IMO. It might not be visually appealing to some/many, but Picasso was criticized too by the people who love Rembrandt for example. I can see Kamila and Co's artistic vision. Might not be my thing, but I can recognize that this program should be iconic and for the ages.

Also, here is a clip of Bejart's Bolero, to help understand that modern dance is just as legitimate a form of dance as pretty prima ballerina. This vid might not appeal to many people, but I at least see the talent and work involved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dovA8PuWGLU

 

[Wyliefan]

Of course, the first thing I did was find and watch the skaters’ programs set to Bolero: Jayne Torvill / Christopher Dean; Tatiana Navka / Roman Kostomarov; Carolina Kostner; Elizaveta Tuktamysheva; Evgenia Tarasova / Vladimir Morozov.

[Kwan ubers' heads explode]

 

[annie_mg]

I'm all into modern dance (I would actually call it contemporary dance) and I'm very open to innovative choreography, such as the Green/Parsons FD this year. In fact, I love such programmes.

You talk as if the world is not ready for such a programme. I personally don't find it a masterpiece. It's just Danny G trying to be different and not doing a great job at it. Great for Valieva if she watched previous Bolero programmes. It shows she cares. Unfortunately, she's given the choreo she's given.

She is special for sure, and if she hits she will win because she's an amazing skater. But it won't be because of the quality of the actual programme.

 

[Coco]

If she could add about 3 more seconds to her choreographic sequence to really hold and present the moves, it would be spectacular.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

After Stage 4 Russia Cup

Sofia Samodelkina has qualified for Senior Nationals with a score of 228.54.

Anastasia Zinina survived a poor SP to come back and get second place points. She competes in the next and final Russia Cup stage.

Valeria Shulskaya won third place points after over a year of invisibility. She can also qualify for Seniors if she places well enough at the next stage.

Anastasia Gulyakova is a heart breaker. She needed a podium finish at least to make it to Senior Nationals. She placed fourth behind Zinina (in second) by only 1.24 points!!! Also, didn't help her for popping things left and right or even having her Choreographic Sequence invalidated (what's up with that?!?!?)

Also, Elizaveta Nugumanova skated reasonably to place 5th, but she will not qualify for Nationals this season either.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Russian Women for Olympic Team Event-Thoughts
I'm wondering what the strategy, if any, RusFed has for the Team Event. At this point I believe that, barring anything insane, that Kamila and Anna are definitely on the OlyTeam. But what about the Team Event? I think Kamila should definitely do the SP, no question. But then I'm not sure I'd want Kamila doing the LP there. Her program just needs to be seen once by an every four year Olympic audience, and I don't want her to lose her mojo like Lipnitskaya did after she became world famous due to her Team LP and then floundered in the singles event.

Should a second skater (likely Anna) do the LP? Would you want a Sasha who could hit 5 quads (imagine the POINTS!!! ) who could save the RussianTeam? How would Tuktamysheva work in any strategy? Maybe do the SP since she has the 3axel, but TeamRussia needs "Kamila Points" to counteract the likely Men's SP meltdown.

And I am not at all into Dance or Pairs, so I don't know if both of those disciplines are more competitive with split teams. So whichever discipline of the two has the strongest two teams should split the event. Definitely a Russian man has to do both (calling Pina Kolyada...).

If anything, I think this could help (a healthy) Sasha to secure her place on the Russian Olympic Team. She could blow the roof off the building in the TeamEvent. And we have Kamila rested after just one SP and Anna will be hungry for her Singles event. Tuktamysheva doesn't seem to add anything to the picture looking at it that way.

Sounds like how I would work it out.

 

[Frau Muller]

Russian Women for Olympic Team Event-Thoughts
I'm wondering what the strategy, if any, RusFed has for the Team Event. At this point I believe that, barring anything insane, that Kamila and Anna are definitely on the OlyTeam. But what about the Team Event? I think Kamila should definitely do the SP, no question. But then I'm not sure I'd want Kamila doing the LP there. Her program just needs to be seen once by an every four year Olympic audience, and I don't want her to lose her mojo like Lipnitskaya did after she became world famous due to her Team LP and then floundered in the singles event.

Should a second skater (likely Anna) do the LP? Would you want a Sasha who could hit 5 quads (imagine the POINTS!!! ) who could save the RussianTeam? How would Tuktamysheva work in any strategy? Maybe do the SP since she has the 3axel, but TeamRussia needs "Kamila Points" to counteract the likely Men's SP meltdown.

And I am not at all into Dance or Pairs, so I don't know if both of those disciplines are more competitive with split teams. So whichever discipline of the two has the strongest two teams should split the event. Definitely a Russian man has to do both (calling Pina Kolyada...).

If anything, I think this could help (a healthy) Sasha to secure her place on the Russian Olympic Team. She could blow the roof off the building in the TeamEvent. And we have Kamila rested after just one SP and Anna will be hungry for her Singles event. Tuktamysheva doesn't seem to add anything to the picture looking at it that way.

Sounds like how I would work it out.

I can picture Liza Tuk doing this Team Event & garnering a shiny Olympic Gold medal. Imagine how she’ll pump up the crowd.

Spread the wealth - Liza for gold in Team Event, then an Eteri skater takes gold in the singles event. Who will that be is hard to tell right now.

 

[Karen-W]

I can picture Liza Tuk doing this Team Event & garnering a shiny Olympic Gold medal. Imagine how she’ll pump up the crowd.

Spread the wealth - Liza for gold in Team Event, then an Eteri skater takes gold in the singles event. Who will that be is hard to tell right now.

I agree with this take on the Team Event make up for Russia. Liza's 3A is fat more reliable than Kamila's and she has scored 81+ twice already this season in her SP. We'll see if she can do it again this week at Cup of Austria. Either Kamila or the 3rd woman on the team can do the FS and blow the rest of the field away.

Switch out either Dance or Pairs, depending on which teams make it to Beijing.

 

[love_skate2011]

I can picture Liza Tuk doing this Team Event & garnering a shiny Olympic Gold medal. Imagine how she’ll pump up the crowd.

Spread the wealth - Liza for gold in Team Event, then an Eteri skater takes gold in the singles event. Who will that be is hard to tell right now.

Eteri will never allow Tuk to get gold in team while her skaters will be sidelined.
The only way she will I agree maybe if D/S skate in ice dance team. I Hope Not.

 

[love_skate2011]

I agree with this take on the Team Event make up for Russia. Liza's 3A is fat more reliable than Kamila's and she has scored 81+ twice already this season in her SP. We'll see if she can do it again this week at Cup of Austria. Either Kamila or the 3rd woman on the team can do the FS and blow the rest of the field away.

Switch out either Dance or Pairs, depending on which teams make it to Beijing.

dance they only have S/K, Stepbuk barely get 80 in SD and 120s in FD
They need the maximum in Ide Dance too coz their Men is soo unreliable, Kolyada could bomb as low as 5th

 

[Coco]

Has anyone heard how Nikita is doing?

 

[Karen-W]

dance they only have S/K, Stepbuk barely get 80 in SD and 120s in FD
They need the maximum in Ide Dance too coz their Men is soo unreliable, Kolyada could bomb as low as 5th

Kolyada could go even lower. So far this season - Chen/Zhou, Jin, Kagiyama, Grassl, and Messing all have at least one SP score higher than Kolyada's SB. Kvitelashvili & Brezina also have the ability to score higher than Kolyada in the SP.

SinKats reportedly only want to do one segment of the Team Event (his back issues plus the ID individual event is less than a week after the Team Event ends). Russia might cut its losses in the Team Event dance segments if they expect to finish behind the US/CAN in at least one segment and substitute StepBuk. The TE ID judges panel is very NA-friendly and doesn't have a Russian either.

 

[Elka]

Has anyone heard how Nikita is doing?

We will have an idea in less than 35 hours. He is supposed to skate in NHK Trophy on Friday at about 15 o'clock local time.

 

[Maximillian]

Actually, I do think Scott has a point. In terms of news availability, internet groups for figure skating, competitions being streamed, etc fans of figure skating can now in 2021 easily research skating events, watch them livestreamed, etc. That was not available in 1991, which you should well remember, Max

My understanding of what was meant by 'size' of the sport was in terms of skaters from different countries competing at the international level. I would argue that the number of skaters and the amount of countries participating in figure skating at the international level has remained the same for quite some time, with no noticeable increase in the last 30 years that would warrant altering rules about a particular country's allotment for participation. In 1991 the complexion of international skating looked almost identical to what it looks like today: with participation from every developed Western nation along with Russia (then USSR), Japan, China and South Korea. The dominant countries then (though the disciplines varied) were: USA, Canada, Japan, and USSR (i.e. Russia/Ukraine), with some European countries accounting for the occasional medal (France, Germany, Great Britain). I see very little difference with the current landscape with few exceptions (China being the most notable, but Lu Chen would medal at Worlds the following year).

ETA: in 1991 the U.S. ladies swept the podium at Worlds without having the reigning World Champion and World bronze medalist also both from the USA, from the previous year on their team.

To your point, Erik (am not writing in Cyrillic today, sorry), I don't see what media access and visibility has to do with allowing another Russian lady to compete at a Worlds/Olympics, unless you mean that 'fans' should be deciding international skating legislation which is an entirely different conversation.

 

[Tobbe]

Russian Women for Olympic Team Event-Thoughts
I'm wondering what the strategy, if any, RusFed has for the Team Event. At this point I believe that, barring anything insane, that Kamila and Anna are definitely on the OlyTeam. But what about the Team Event? I think Kamila should definitely do the SP, no question. But then I'm not sure I'd want Kamila doing the LP there. Her program just needs to be seen once by an every four year Olympic audience, and I don't want her to lose her mojo like Lipnitskaya did after she became world famous due to her Team LP and then floundered in the singles event.

Should a second skater (likely Anna) do the LP? Would you want a Sasha who could hit 5 quads (imagine the POINTS!!! ) who could save the RussianTeam? How would Tuktamysheva work in any strategy? Maybe do the SP since she has the 3axel, but TeamRussia needs "Kamila Points" to counteract the likely Men's SP meltdown.

And I am not at all into Dance or Pairs, so I don't know if both of those disciplines are more competitive with split teams. So whichever discipline of the two has the strongest two teams should split the event. Definitely a Russian man has to do both (calling Pina Kolyada...).

If anything, I think this could help (a healthy) Sasha to secure her place on the Russian Olympic Team. She could blow the roof off the building in the TeamEvent. And we have Kamila rested after just one SP and Anna will be hungry for her Singles event. Tuktamysheva doesn't seem to add anything to the picture looking at it that way.

Sounds like how I would work it out.

Love your analysis!

My main concern about the Team Event is all the quarantine rules China will have. I've heard 3 weeks for non vaccinated athletes. That will cut it very close to the Europeans Champs as the TE usually is at the beginning of the Olympics. I don't know the status of the Russian women, but surely they must have some plan for all this.

But I think definitely Kamila in the short, and whatever the outcome of Nationals and Europeans will be, might be the deciding factor for the long.

 

[Frau Muller]

.....

ETA: in 1991 the U.S. ladies swept the podium at Worlds--something the Russian ladies have yet to do--....

AHUM....Russia swept the World’s podium this year :

Gold-Scherbakova
Silver-Tuktamysheva
Bronze-Trusova

 

[Karen-W]

Love your analysis!

My main concern about the Team Event is all the quarantine rules China will have. I've heard 3 weeks for non vaccinated athletes. That will cut it very close to the Europeans Champs as the TE usually is at the beginning of the Olympics. I don't know the status of the Russian women, but surely they must have some plan for all this.

But I think definitely Kamila in the short, and whatever the outcome of Nationals and Europeans will be, might be the deciding factor for the long.

We don't know the vaccination status of the Russian athletes so let's not make any assumptions about whether or not they will need to quarantine.

Kamila in the SP is not a better bet than Liza, assuming they are both on the team. Liza's 3a is far more consistent than Kamila's.

 

[Vash01]

We don't know the vaccination status of the Russian athletes so let's not make any assumptions about whether or not they will need to quarantine.

Kamila in the SP is not a better bet than Liza, assuming they are both on the team. Liza's 3a is far more consistent than Kamila's.

That makes it harder for Sasha to make the team.

 

[Karen-W]

That makes it harder for Sasha to make the team.

I doubt Russia is all that concerned about the team event as long as they have at least one woman with a semi-reliable 3A who they can put in for the Team Event SP in order to guarantee the 1st place points.

If the Russian team is Kamila, Liza and Sasha/Anna then Liza is the better choice for the SP and pick your poison for the FS from the other two because they will run away with 1st place.

If the Russian team is Kamila, Sasha & Anna then, for sure, put Kamila in the SP because of her 3A and again, pick your poison for the FS from the other two.

 

[Marco]

[Kwan ubers' heads explode]

True Kwan ubers would not want anyone to be reminded that she once skated to it.

 

[Marco]

I doubt Russia is all that concerned about the team event as long as they have at least one woman with a semi-reliable 3A who they can put in for the Team Event SP in order to guarantee the 1st place points.

If the Russian team is Kamila, Liza and Sasha/Anna then Liza is the better choice for the SP and pick your poison for the FS from the other two because they will run away with 1st place.

If the Russian team is Kamila, Sasha & Anna then, for sure, put Kamila in the SP because of her 3A and again, pick your poison for the FS from the other two.

On the flip side, does the RusFed see Liza as a potential title contender (or more so than Kamila and Anna)? The RusFed is most likely going to prop up the 2 girls whom they feel has the strongest chance at the individual title with a pretty-much-assured team gold. If Liza is being regarded as the 3rd woman, I don't think she will get to compete at the team event.

Let's see how GPF, Nationals and Euros go. My bet is Kamila will do the team short, and Anna will do the team long.

 

[Karen-W]

On the flip side, does the RusFed see Liza as a potential title contender (or more so than Kamila and Anna)? The RusFed is most likely going to prop up the 2 girls whom they feel has the strongest chance at the individual title with a pretty-much-assured team gold. If Liza is being regarded as the 3rd woman, I don't think she will get to compete at the team event.

Let's see how GPF, Nationals and Euros go. My bet is Kamila will do the team short, and Anna will do the team long.

I think there are two trains of thought and the team event is still so new that it's hard to guess what direction the RFSF will go in. There's your train of thought, which is valid and not at all unreasonable.

2014 - it made far more sense to use two teams in both dance & pairs than it did in the singles events, so they put the woman they perceived as the stronger of the two - though I'm not sure they thought either Lipnitskaya or Sotnikova were strong contenders to beat Kim and/or Asada for gold in the women's event.

2018 - Sotskova was much weaker than either Zagitova or Medvedeva and wasn't a medal contender at all, so using those two as well as two strong pairs teams made sense.

2022 - All three of their women will be medal contenders and there really isn't a need to prop any of them up. Liza has become a massive fan favorite due to her longevity and might be the weakest (hahaha) of the medal contenders, so putting her in the team event would be a way to guarantee her a medal if things go badly in the women's event. They might even view putting her in the team event as a way of propping her up, very far ahead of the rest of the women who will be competing a week and a half later. This is kind of where I'm leaning, right now, but we'll have to see how Nationals and Euros go, for sure.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

2022 - All three of their women will be medal contenders and there really isn't a need to prop any of them up. Liza had become a massive fan favorite due to her longevity and might be the weakest (hahaha) of the medal contenders, so putting her in the team event would be a way to guarantee her a medal if things go badly in the women's event. They might even view putting her in the team event as a way of propping her up, very far ahead of the rest of the women who will be competing a week and a half later. This is kind of where I'm leaning, right now, but we'll have to see how Nationals and Euros go, for sure.

But if I think in terms of TeamEvent and the three skaters, I don't think it's going to work for Liza. Sasha WON the LP at Worlds with a mess of a program, so Sasha will almost definitely win the LP in the TE. It's best to put Sasha in the LP. And that way, Sasha can have her Olympic moment and medal that she likely won't get in the Singles Event. And also, I think Sasha's LP would be PERFECT for a TE format. It's fun, not exactly 'Olympic', and it might bring more interest to the event. Just a thought.

Of course if Sasha is injured and not able to compete, I don't think either Liza, Maiia, or Alyona deserve a spot in the TE and I'd give the LP to Anna. Or whatever Anna wants, since she has been Russia's best ambassador this quad. That would be my strategy.

 

[Karen-W]

But if I think in terms of TeamEvent and the three skaters, I don't think it's going to work for Liza. Sasha WON the LP at Worlds with a mess of a program, so Sasha will almost definitely win the LP in the TE. It's best to put Sasha in the LP. And that way, Sasha can have her Olympic moment and medal that she likely won't get in the Singles Event. And also, I think Sasha's LP would be PERFECT for a TE format. It's fun, not exactly 'Olympic', and it might bring more interest to the event. Just a thought.

Of course if Sasha is injured and not able to compete, I don't think either Liza, Maiia, or Alyona deserve a spot in the TE and I'd give the LP to Anna. Or whatever Anna wants, since she has been Russia's best ambassador this quad. That would be my strategy.

Sasha won the FS at Worlds, yes, but she also wasn't competing against Kamila, whose BV is at least as good as hers.

It really is going to come down to which three women make the Olympic team, IMO. But, I'm positive that if Liza is on the Olympic team, she will be doing the Team SP. If Sasha is also on the team, then sure, put her in the FS and save Kamila for the women's event. What a powerful message THAT would send - "we're so good, we're putting our #3 and #2 in the Team Event and still blowing the rest of the field out of the water - wait until you see our #1 in the Women's event." If Anna is on the team, sure, I can see giving her the first right of refusal for the FS ahead of Kamila, based on her being the reigning WC, etc.

 

[canbelto]

Isn't there some talk that skating the team event is actually good for the gold medal favorite because it can get out some nerves/jitters?

 

[Tobbe]

But if I think in terms of TeamEvent and the three skaters, I don't think it's going to work for Liza. Sasha WON the LP at Worlds with a mess of a program, so Sasha will almost definitely win the LP in the TE. It's best to put Sasha in the LP. And that way, Sasha can have her Olympic moment and medal that she likely won't get in the Singles Event. And also, I think Sasha's LP would be PERFECT for a TE format. It's fun, not exactly 'Olympic', and it might bring more interest to the event. Just a thought.

Of course if Sasha is injured and not able to compete, I don't think either Liza, Maiia, or Alyona deserve a spot in the TE and I'd give the LP to Anna. Or whatever Anna wants, since she has been Russia's best ambassador this quad. That would be my strategy.

Yes, but Sasha won at Worlds against a quadless Anna (with just 0.21) and a not clean Liza. Kamila has already beaten all Sasha's records and I can't really see RusFed choosing Sasha over Kamila.
That said, you made a good point before that it might be a good strategy to save Kamila for the individual event so she is not burnt out like Lipnitskaya was. But do Russians really believe in burning out??

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Sasha won the FS at Worlds, yes, but she also wasn't competing against Kamila, whose BV is at least as good as hers.

It really is going to come down to which three women make the Olympic team, IMO. But, I'm positive that if Liza is on the Olympic team, she will be doing the Team SP. If Sasha is also on the team, then sure, put her in the FS and save Kamila for the women's event. What a powerful message THAT would send - "we're so good, we're putting our #3 and #2 in the Team Event and still blowing the rest of the field out of the water - wait until you see our #1 in the Women's event." If Anna is on the team, sure, I can see giving her the first right of refusal for the FS ahead of Kamila, based on her being the reigning WC, etc.

But Sasha's BV doesn't have to compare to Kamila's wrt the TE. A country only gets placement 'points', right? So if it's a given that Sasha is healthy and can repeat her 2021 Worlds LP and still get the first place, then Sasha did her job for the team.

That leaves the SP. If I was Kamila, I would demand that SP in the TE. Get that first Olympic 3axel attempt out of the way, asap. If she hits it, she has more confidence for the Singles. If she misses it, she can figure out what she did wrong and thank herself she made the mistake in the TE and not the SE. Of course Liza can do the SP with her consistent 3axel, but who knows if she misses and doesn't have the Kamila magic to pull points out of nowhere....

So I'm all for Kamila in SP, and Sasha in LP. I have such faith in Anna that she will do her best that I know she will get a Singles medal. I just don't think Sasha has that in her control than as if she did the TE.

 

[Maximillian]

AHUM....Russia swept the World’s podium this year :

Gold-Scherbakova
Silver-Tuktamysheva
Bronze-Trusova

Gosh, I can't believe I forgot that! My mistake. Edited my post. My point still stands.

 

[Vash01]

This is just my personal opinion. The Russian woman who wins the OGM should take some time off to revel in her success and give her spot at worlds to the fourth ranked Russian woman. I remember how Zagitova fell apart at worlds after she won the OGM. Russia has so many talented women who don't get a chance to compete in worlds just because they just missed the Olympic Team.